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7/8's revisited

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by shot410ga, Jul 25, 2007.

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  1. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    Well I tried 7/8 oz. 7.5's from the 27 today. 20grs. Green Dot/AA hull/AA209/Rem one oz wad. (slightly dished in). Scores 20, 23, 24, 24. It took getting use to the higher speed as this is my normal powder amount with 1 1/8 loads. Mostly all good hits, some chips (few). Knocked the nose off some of the hard rights on station #5. But generally good solid hits. No kick, so, it was easer to keep my head down (my big problem). I really noticed this during the last fifty.

    No one can tell me anymore one can't break 27 yard targets dam good with those "weenie" loads any longer. I was surprised, I have to admit. But, the guys (Dodd was one) that have been recomending these loads have been correct all along.
     
  2. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Interesting, 410ga, that's a direction I've never gone with the weenies. My thoughts all along have been to try to keep the pellet count up to an arbitrary 400 count or better in my early work. That's why I've basically stuck with 1 1/8 oz of 7.5s (were I to load them) with a 388 count being close enough, 1 oz of 8s (409), and with 7/8 oz I'd be happy with 8.5 (420) but 512 #9s work great up close. I have a sporting friend that swears by his 7/8 oz of 8s he developed after my introduction; he calls them his "magic load" to those that ask. I'm quite interested in your results. You might try reducing your powder charge with a faster powder and then moving to a dedicated wad for 7/8 oz loads which ought to help your crimps if you're concerned. But, missing only 9 of 100 from 27 with a drastically new load or 4 of 75 or 2 of 50 would put a smile on my face nearly any day.....breakemall....Bob Dodd
     
  3. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    shot410ga- How many would you have broken with 1 1/8 oz of shot?

    Pat Ireland
     
  4. Bernie

    Bernie TS Member

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    How could anybody draw any meaningful conclusions from shooting 100 targets? While anecdotal evidence is entertaining, it's useless as proof of anything.
     
  5. jbmOU

    jbmOU Member

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    7/8's are great, they just take a little getting used to because of the low recoil and high speed. It seems like I get better hits with them.
     
  6. lumper

    lumper TS Member

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    There is nothing wrong at all with the right 7/8oz load.

    There is nothing wrong at all with the right 1oz load.

    There is nothing wrong at all with the right 1-1/8oz load.

    Whatever load you have confidence in is the best load to use and there is nobody except yourself to make that decision.

    Personally I feel if I can smash the bird with 1-1/8oz I can smash the bird with a 7/8oz or anything in-between because I do not believe it is the load but the shooter that breaks the target.
     
  7. Big Az Al

    Big Az Al Well-Known Member

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    I also read that length of shot string and some of the spread is a result of the BB's at the back having more push from the wad and displacing and or pushing past the BB's toward the front of the charge.

    And that with 7/8 the shorter distance between the wad and the grimp IE shorter shot column equals a shorter string and more density so there are fewer holes to let a bird sneak thru the string untouched, even though there are fewer BB's out there in the first place!

    Al
     
  8. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    "And that with 7/8 the shorter distance between the wad and the grimp IE shorter shot column equals a shorter string and more density so there are fewer holes to let a bird sneak thru the string untouched, even though there are fewer BB's out there in the first place"

    More density than what?? ...than with 1 1/8oz? Uh-uh.

    Shorter string? Yes, but shot stringing is a moot point with modern loads.

    I'm with Pat: you did well with the 7/8oz loads. Would you have done better with 1 1/8oz?

    Last question: next time you walk up to the 27yd line for all the marbles, will you still load up with 7/8oz ??? :)
     
  9. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I don't think any of these guys would shoot these loads in competition. But practice is another story. 7/8s load will give you about 100 more loaded shells per bag, Doest hurt with the price of shot being what it is...
     
  10. jbmOU

    jbmOU Member

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    I love my 7/8oz loads for practice, but I would never use them for competition, I like to have as many pellets out there as possible in competition.
     
  11. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    I never argue with those that hang onto "1 1/8 oz loads will equal more broken birds" and I usually line up behind Sir Pat Ireland way more often than not. But, the facts are, we'll never know if he would have broken more birds with 1 1/8 oz loads - not possible to determine. If a guy were to shoot one load over the year and then other the next, there might be some logical points to be made. I can absolutely say that if my average was elevated to 91 in handicap and even with one field where 5 birds were lost, I'd be a happy shooter and I DO NOT shoot long birds with 7/8 oz shells or ever recommended it. I've never dabbled with large pellets in 7/8 oz loads either. I will stand by my usual point and that is if the reduced recoil gets a marginal shooter to focus more on the correct form and techniques, then it's likely that load will garner better scores than shooting boomers....Bob Dodd
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Some seem to have missed my point when I asked "How many would you have broken with 1 1/8 oz of shot?"

    Shooting a good score on one day with 7/8 oz of shot demonstrates nothing except the person shot well that day. He would have shot well with any shell. Shooting 5,000 registered birds with a specific type of shell may demonstrate something for the individual person that may not be transferable to another person. All of us have broken birds with some very poor shells and we have missed birds with excellent shells.

    If one gains 4 birds shooting handicap with 7/8 oz of shot because of low recoil and loses one bird due to light pattern density, the light load is a positive for that person. The same load for another shooting a well fitting heavy gun with a PFS could be a negative.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Why do you 7/8 oz shooters feel compelled to change the rest of us. The rules state up to 1 1/8. It's like taking a 6 shooter to gunfight with only 4 bullets in it. Use what you want but get off your stump. If you are dead on all the time then you only need 3 bb's. personally I need all the help I can get.

    Don
     
  14. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Az Al, that's an interesting theory, but it's not at all true, of course. I have a link on the other thread to some actual patterns to which show that this sort of desperation magic is just magic.

    Neil
     
  15. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    Pat's dead on and I couldn't agree more with his expanded point.

    Don, in my ranting, I don't give a whit whether anyone changes to 7/8 oz loads for any portion of their shooting and I've made a point of voicing a lack of confidence with them for anything but up close shots of trap singles, 1st shot of doubles, skeet, and closer sporties. In fact, I really don't care if you (generic) load with 1 1/4 oz of shot - I know some do! My closest thing to a recommendation has been for the more senior shooter, the impaired shooter, the beginner, or anyone sensitive to the recoil of standard loads. However, I find shot410ga's 100 birds an interesting point and would be delighted to see if he continues to test the big pellet, small load idea for a long enough period to come to some sort of conclusion....Bob Dodd
     
  16. shot410ga

    shot410ga Well-Known Member

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    I'm not suggesting anyone shoot 7/8's. I had never tried a 7/8's load from any yardage until yesterday, in 30 years of shooting. I have always been in the "more is better," way of thinking. I took BDood's advice and ordered some 7/8's wads today to continue the experment using 7.5's. If your lifting your head, try the load I used. I'm not trying to convert anyone. Frankly, I was surprised they worked so well. Would I have broke more with a 1 1/8 load? I don't know. But I do know I'm getting real tired of any recoil. And I shoot a Ljutic Momo with a PFS. My brain just does not like recoil any longer.
     
  17. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

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    Everyone should be required to shoot 7/8 ounce loads.


    But me.
     
  18. Bernie

    Bernie TS Member

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    I wonder if everybody whined so much when the ATA went from 1 1/4 oz loads to 1 1/8?
     
  19. code5coupe

    code5coupe Member

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    Yes, they did...but because there was no internet, we just didn't hear it.
     
  20. remington32

    remington32 TS Member

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    I've shot 7/8 oz a long time now and in some sports, like International trap and skeet, you must!

    I think you'll find the scores have dropped, overall, with the 24 gram(7/8).
    That doesn't mean the "world record" won't be the same as 1 1/8 or 1 oz, and on a given day or match, the scores won't be as high for the top 1-5 shooters, but the scores are lower. Just look at the top 10 or 25 shooters at every match.
    Clearly evident for trap which hasn't changed. Harder to tell for skeet because they increased the amount of doubles at station 4, so the game is tougher.
    That wasn't the case when International went from 1 1/8 to 1 oz. Scores appeared to be about the same...at least. 1 1/8 oz is "overkill" for clay target sports.

    IMO, the simple fact is 7/8 has a smaller "effective" pattern than the 1 1/8 and 1 oz. And, it will cost you targets...no way around that. If you center all your targets, then no. But, if you are that talented, you should be shooting a 28 or 410 gauge anyway...save money and recoil.

    Even without patterning you see the different in hits at, long range, with 7/8 IMO. Often you can "smoke" a good part of the target and still leave fairly large pieces or two that fly off. IMHO, again, anyone that has shot a "lot" of targets and made the transition from 1 1/8oz to 1oz to 7/8oz notices the difference in "hits".
     
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