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7/8oz loads @ 1330 fps compared to 1 1/8 @ 1145fps

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by skeet_man, Nov 3, 2010.

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  1. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Am creating a ground-up trap setup for an intraclub league this winter.

    At any rate, I've been researching loads, and have been intrigued by a 24 gram-7/8oz "International" load, and may have stumbled upon an aspect that no one else has explored thus far.

    When you drop the shot charge, and increase the velocity, why couldn't you drop down shot size, and see similar performance?

    Lets start with 7/8oz of 8.5 @ 1330 fps. Each pellet has .77 ft lb of energy @ 40yds, and the shell will have approx 435 pellets. This is opposed to 1 1/8oz of 8s @ 1145 fps. Here, each pellet has .82 ft lbs of energy (6% difference), and a pellet count of 461 (slightly less than 6% difference). Mathamatically, recoil between the two should be identical.

    Next, compare 7/8oz of 8 @ 1330 fps. Each pellet has .97 ft lb of energy, and a pellet count of 359. This is opposed to 1 1/8oz of 7.5s @ 1145fps. Here, each pellet has 1.03 ft lbs (6% difference), and a pellet count of 394 (9% difference).

    Therefore, shouldn't 7/8oz @ 1330 perform similarly to 1 1/8oz @ 1145, as long as you drop down 1/2 on shot size? Add to that the benefit of less lead needed, and without putting anything on paper yet, I can't see a down side thus far.
     
  2. squirrelkiller

    squirrelkiller TS Member

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    I need another beer and a Big Chief tablet for this!!!!
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    How long has he been suffering from these delusions? HMB
     
  4. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Put the crack pipe down now.....
     
  5. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Losing your first shoot-off will make you bonkers.

    Good line Matt
     
  6. headhunter

    headhunter Well-Known Member

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    Stop, that hurts my head. Uncle! Uncle! You lost me after "Lets start with"
     
  7. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    It's not even winter yet!!

    Curt
     
  8. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Yep, it should be similar. But look at it this way......In one round of trap you are losing 925 pellets, your foot lbs. of energy per pellet is less, and you have more recoil. 7/8 oz. at 1330=1503 ft. lbs., 1-1/8 oz. at 1145=1445 ft. lbs. I'll take more shot with more energy anytime. JMO

    Wayne
     
  9. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm

    Been using international trap loads with 7-1/2 shot over here. 24 grams at 1350 fps.

    Absolutely obliterates the targets.

    8-1/2's would work great in that package, too.

    I'd say recoil is heavier than my 1 ounce 1150 fps loads.

    Yeah, about the same as 1-1/8 ounces 1145 loads.
     
  10. Hatshooter

    Hatshooter TS Member

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    recoil about equal, more pellects in 1 1/8, less shot per shell= more reloads in a bag of $40 shot. I've recently played with 3/4 oz payloads at 1325 for practice, smokes targets at the 16.. best
     
  11. Tom Ruble

    Tom Ruble TS Member

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    It is still much too early in the day! Break 'em all! Tom Ruble
     
  12. semperfi909

    semperfi909 Well-Known Member

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    Even with the crippling 24gm load the scores in international competition have refused to decline. It would appear to be one of those indian/arrow things.

    Charlie
     
  13. hrosik123

    hrosik123 Member

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    I shoot 7/8 loaded w/#8.5 shot, but not at those velocities. Mine shoot at about 1220fps. The low recoil and greater shot count really make a difference. I love using them and will continue to do so. Good luck Chuck Hrosik
     
  14. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    are any of you competeing from the 27? it willd be all good until the day you just dust 1 target out of 200, and wonder if you'd had a regular load what would have happened. Put it on a pattern board and see if it makes you happy.
    Does anyone know exactly how much force it takes to break a clay target everytime? How about cold weather changes? Lots of different factors to consider. There will be more dusted unbroken targets regardless of weather.Heck I'll do it if everyone else does, but I would not want to be shooting off with 24gm if someone else was using regular 1 1/8 loads.
     
  15. PerazziBigBore

    PerazziBigBore TS Member

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    If you put the lead on the target.. they will break.. I've made crushing inkball hits in bunker at 60 yards on a second shot.. BUT.. my chokes run from .038 to .052.. It's almost like shooting a rifle..

    To get the same pattern density with 7/8oz to 1 1/8oz.. you'll need to choke down.. which means.. smaller patterns.. If you center EVERY target..you'll never know the difference.. If you are like most of us.. It's going to cost.. even the best shooters a bird here and there..

    While I practice with 24 gram at 1330..and have for about the last 35 years or so..I can honestly say.. that except for bunker.. every single shell I have shot in any match has been factory 1 1/8 of #8's.. period..
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    skeet_man- On recoil you made a fundamental error. The recoil is a factor of the rate of acceleration of the shot charge and not the terminal velocity. The faster shell will have a greater rate acceleration.

    Comparison of energy in each shot is of little significance. The energy that is important is the energy transfered from the shot to the target. If it requires 10 ft/lbs to break a target, hitting the target with 50 ft/lbs will have the same result as hitting it with 100 ft/lbs.

    More shot in the pattern increases the probability that the target will be hit when it is in the pattern.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. Hatshooter

    Hatshooter TS Member

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    for 27 yd line, I use a superhandicap load. for practice, I've used those fast 24g reloads. at the 16 for practice, the 3/4 will save you some $$.
     
  18. blacklab

    blacklab Member

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    The person that runs the balistics lab at Hodgon, forgot his name, told me that a 7/8oz load of 8's is balistically superior to 1 1/8 oz loads for a 12ga.
    Less deformed fliers and a denser core with 7/8oz load.

    He said that the Olympic Comm. thought that scores were getting to high and went to a 24 gram load. They were suprised when scores went up further.

    Give him a call and he will explain further.
     
  19. CharlesR1100

    CharlesR1100 TS Member

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    One guy at Hodgon will have an opinion, but he is only one guy. Get a better opinion by giving each of 10 friends 2 or 3 hundred shells and let them shoot and report. If you doubt the wisdom of this suggestion, just ask your friends.
     
  20. blacklab

    blacklab Member

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    He happens to be someone who has run their lab for 30 yrs. He has run the test under controlled conditions. I believe he also has high speed pictures.
     
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