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7/8 patterning question

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by richrob, Jul 13, 2007.

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  1. richrob

    richrob TS Member

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    I decided to finally pattern my reloads, both 7/8 and 1 oz. I took five shots of each and started doing the pellet count on the 7/8.

    I got 333, 321, 326, 288, 325 for a 318.6 average in a 30" circle at 35 yards. For #8 shot I was under the impression that there should be about 359 pellets.

    That would give me an 88.7% average - this can't be right can it?

    What kind of pellet count is more realistic, I will weigh a couple of loads, but if I remember correctly they were about 390 grains.

    Thanks, Rich
     
  2. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Lawrence 6% antimonial shot has 359 #8 shot in 7/8oz and 410 in 1oz. Lawrence has subsequently gone to 5% antimony, so you will have fewer pellets. If you used Star or Eagle shot, both of which are quite soft, you will have fewer yet.

    The only way to may sure you are getting good numbers is to count the number of shot in a 10z sample.
     
  3. richrob

    richrob TS Member

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    Thanks for the quick responce, I am not sure if I will get around to actually counting the pellets. By those numbers even if I used the data for 1 oz, my average would be 77.5% still higher than I expeceted.

    At 35 yrds, is about 320 pellets with fairly even distribution a good load?

    Thanks, Rich
     
  4. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Depends on your bushing. Remember, your bushing does not throw a weight of shot! It throws a volume of shot! And usually bushings are set up for chilled shot, so the actual weight of magnum shot your bushing throws may be less than it is stamped.

    I know my 1 ounce bushing, when I'm using Remington magnum shot, throws about a 0.975 ounce load.

    I would throw a few shot loads from your bushing and actually count the number of shot (which, incidentally, the shot count from your bushing will be roughly the same for a given shot size, regarless of whether you use magnum or soft shot since the bushings throw a "volume" of shot.)

    So in my opinion, the only way to know how many pellets you actually have in YOUR RELOADS, is to count pellets.
     
  5. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    RR, you won't know anything about percentage until you know how many pellets are in the shell. Additionally, you won't know what 35 yards is until you actually measure it if you didn't this time.

    But pellet count is something you do know, and it looks like enough to break a good score. More would be better, of course, but that 320+ total is all you would get at 40 yards from an actual 80% shooter (pretty rare) with 7 1/2's and that's enough to do the job, so why wouldn't this work for singles?

    Neil
     
  6. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Rich, the rule of thumb is that you want 85% patterns at the distance you break your targets. So if you are correct about the 390 grains and you really had #8 shot (not smaller like Star or Eagle 8s), you are there. It should be a terrific singles load. Even so, you'll up your chances a tad if you go to 1oz loads.

    BTW, you've already taken the time to do a lot of good work. Take a little more and count the pellets in a couple/few 1 ounce samples. Then if you weight each shot charge for the shells you will pattern, you can derive accurate percentages. The number of pellets from the same bag in a weighed sample should not vary by more than 1 or 2.
     
  7. famill00

    famill00 TS Member

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    390 grains of shot equals 1 1/8 oz of shot....not 7/8 or 1 ounce.

    Forrest
     
  8. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Shotgun Ballistics for Windows says you should have 80% - 90% at range with 7/8 oz. of shot.

    Believe it, or not.
     
  9. smartass

    smartass TS Member

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    famill00, do the math again, 1 1/8 oz is 492.2 grains.

    mrskeet, what range are you talking about?
     
  10. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    Instead of counting pellets, you might want to try this website:

    http://www.shotgun-insight.com/introLite.html

    Mike
     
  11. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    mrskeet, that would be with a full choke. Rich did not say what choke he used. Since 77% @ 35 yds translates to 65% @ 40 yds, I say he was using a Modified choke.
     
  12. BDodd

    BDodd TS Member

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    7/8 oz = 383 gr and 358 #8 pellets

    1 oz = 438 gr and 409 #8 pellets

    1 1/8 oz = 492 gr and 460 #8 pellets

    All rounded off to even numbers and from respected charts.....Bob Dodd
     
  13. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Anonymous - That's range to the target. The range you use is dependent upon the game you play. For skeet, that would be 21 yards. I seem to remember you trapites talking about 30 yards as typical range to target-break for 16 yard trap. 27 yarders I would guess would be looking at ~40 yards.

    ZZT It could very well be that full choke is needed to do that at 40 yards. But you might not find any choke that will give you that desired percentage from 7/8 oz at that range. That's why the big dogs don't use 7/8 oz from 27 yards.

    Remember, every choke is optimum at some range.

    Believe it, or not.
     
  14. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    mrskeet, the percentage of shot contained within a 30" diameter circle at 40 yards for all three throw weights is the same for a given gun and choke (within a percent or two). The big dawgs don't shoot 7/8 ouncers because the rules allow the to shoot 1 1/8 ouncers, and they want all the pellets they can get.
     
  15. smartass

    smartass TS Member

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    Brown, who are those "big dogs"? If they really compete with 7/8 oz of shot at 27 yards, why would they be ashamed of being identified? No names- no credibility.

    Actually, when intl trap went to 24 gram loads, the scores went down although the did go up when they initially went to 28 gram loads. If you remember, the goal was the lower the scores, which is why they went from 32 to 28 to 24 gram loads. If they hadn't gone down with 24 grams, they would have gone to 20 grams.

    Let's also remember that the intl boys get to shoot 48 grams at every target. By my calculation that's far more than 1 1/8 oz.

    Like the techoid says, less isn't more no matter how much smoke anybody tries to blow up your arse. Every 1 1/8 oz load has a 7/8 oz load on top along with a 1/4 oz load. There is no way a 7/8 oz load can put as many pellets in a 30" circle as a 1 1/8 oz load- it's not possible.
     
  16. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Brownk - If less patterns better, why aren't the really saavy bunker shooters shooting 1/2 ounce?
     
  17. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Since the vast majority of back yardage shooters including me and our resident patterning expert included, couldn't break a winning score with 1 1/2oz.-what's the point? Should we really care if one more bird makes it through the pattern when we already missed 15? That's the joy of the 27 yd. line shooting for the real amateures!!
     
  18. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    PBB - "you can pound targets from the 27 if you are ON." You betcha! But with more shot, sometimes you get a break when you are just 'almost on'. The old time skeeters called the 12 gauge 'the old forgiver.' Good name. There's a reason it was called that.
     
  19. jbmOU

    jbmOU Member

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    I have also patterned my 7/8 oz load and found that mine also have very tight patterns. 7/8oz is great for 16's and I have even used it on handicap with no problems, you don't get very many chipped targets with them.
     
  20. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    brownk80 - Go fish.
     
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