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7/8 Ounce SMOKE from the 27 yard line!!!

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by rick979, Mar 20, 2009.

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  1. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

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    Went to the trap club near La Grange, Texas yesterday. ATA All American 14 year old shooter shows up to shoot a few (6) rounds of handicap practice. He is a 27 yarder. I watched him SMOKE 27 yard targets with 7/8 OZ. 3 dram loads that he was shooting thru a K80 with a choke tube in designated for "light improved modified". I asked him why it worked so well. He said that the pattern testing he and his dad had done showed a tighter and more dense pattern with the 7/8 oz loads compared to 1 oz. or even 1 1/8 oz that you would expect him to shoot. He is currently under Mr. Carlisle's tutelage as a future olympic bunker shooter so the boy is no "flash in the pan". Any comments boys and girls?? Rick Kipp.... Texas
     
  2. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    7/8 oz is all I ever shot when I first started shooting. I never knew anything else. I've shot lots of decent practice from the 27 with 7/8 oz loads too. As I recall a few years back when the Olympic trapshooters reduced their loads from 1 oz down to 24 grams (around 7/8 oz), they found their scores increased! But I'm sure there's a lot to be said for patterning that load with different chokes to see what works best.

    Jen
     
  3. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    My comment is that everything must really be bigger in Texas, including the patterning stories.

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    Neil
     
  4. CharlesK80

    CharlesK80 Member

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    Shooting a K 80? Oh hum.

    A K gun in the hands of an excellent shooter is a thing of beauty.

    W.C. Fields once said, "You can't beat kids or dogs." Kids prove it every day.
     
  5. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Green Bay Wisconsin
    I am in complete agreement with your experience.

    I have a friend who was a top dog trial shooter. This is the ultimate in pressure. when some multi thousand dollar dog is out on a bird, and you miss the shot in front of a gallery of hundreds, that is just not acceptable.

    This man was invited to shoot the Canadian Nationals, so you know he was no slouch.

    So you don't miss. Period. you might sweat blood, but you just don't miss.

    Anyway, he shot for practice a 3/4 ounce load the NRA magazine had in it a long time ago. this load was a tight shooter. He demonstrated by firing into the pond, comparing with mine and other.(He had done all the pattern testing previously)

    It was quite amazing to see him shoot long distance skeet targets at 30 yards or more, standing in the parking lot with that 3/4 oz load. The point here is that as you lighten the shot charge, the loads generally seem to shoot tighter.

    HM
     
  6. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

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    Neil: Your chart shows 1 1/8 oz of 8 1/2's. But does not designate shot size of the 7/8 oz loads...how come? The boy was shooting bunker 7/8 oz and the shells were 7 1/2 Kemen brand.
     
  7. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    It may shoot tighter -or it may not - but that's different from saying what rick was told, that the patterns were "denser."

    There have been a couple of articles (same writer) , one in Shotgun Sports, the other in Clayshooting USA which allude to "denser," but it's clear the writer never actually fired a shot to find out, so how's he sure - or in fact, how do we know he knows anything?

    Neil
     
  8. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

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    I'd add to my last post esp. after Neil's chart, that I usually shoot a tighter choke (IM or full) when I'm shooting 7/8 oz loads, due to the lower pellet count. But for singles, a #9 7/8 oz load has quite a lot of pellets compared to 7.5 and does quite well in my experience. -- Jen
     
  9. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

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    To be honest with you Neil I can't remember if Kross McCarty and his dad said they thought it was "tighter" or "denser". I just found it a very interesting experience since I am handicapped @ the 27 but like most of us SMOKE very few and chip my way thru each 25 shots.
     
  10. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Yes, rick, my test was with 8 1/2's, not 7 1/2's. But to think the outcome would be any different with the 0.010 inch larger shot you'd have to believe that there's some magic that happens when the shot is a bit bigger. I selected the smaller size because it was _more_ likely to show the effect of "shot column" which Tim W (the writer) is so convinced about, in spite of apparently having no, nada, zilch, data to prove his point.

    Here are 7 1/2's, Remington factory shells, showing that at least with 1 1/8 and 1 ounce, there's nothing magic happening; fewer pellets are fewer pellets.

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>


    Neil
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    rick, Kross is a good shot for sure and since he centers his targets, he's getting enough pellets into the birds in that critical inner 10-inch circle. But that does not mean there are more pellets there.

    Neil
     
  12. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

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    I understand Neil and always love reading your inputs. I haven't been shooting since 1991 and had never thought I would see this kind of target obliteration with anything less than a conventional 1 1/8 oz load. It was sure fun to watch!
     
  13. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
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    Went to the trap club near La Grange, Texas yesterday. ATA All American 14 year old shooter shows up to shoot a few (6) rounds of handicap practice. He is a 27 yarder. I watched him SMOKE 27 yard targets with 7/8 OZ. 3 dram loads that he was shooting thru a K80 with a choke tube in designated for "light improved modified". I asked him why it worked so well. He said that the pattern testing he and his dad had done showed a tighter and more dense pattern with the 7/8 oz loads compared to 1 oz. or even 1 1/8 oz that you would expect him to shoot. He is currently under Mr. Carlisle's tutelage as a future olympic bunker shooter so the boy is no "flash in the pan". Any comments boys and girls?? Rick Kipp.... Texas
     
  14. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    463
    7/8 oz is all I ever shot when I first started shooting. I never knew anything else. I've shot lots of decent practice from the 27 with 7/8 oz loads too. As I recall a few years back when the Olympic trapshooters reduced their loads from 1 oz down to 24 grams (around 7/8 oz), they found their scores increased! But I'm sure there's a lot to be said for patterning that load with different chokes to see what works best.

    Jen
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,861
    My comment is that everything must really be bigger in Texas, including the patterning stories.

    <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>

    Neil
     
  16. CharlesK80

    CharlesK80 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Messages:
    400
    Shooting a K 80? Oh hum.

    A K gun in the hands of an excellent shooter is a thing of beauty.

    W.C. Fields once said, "You can't beat kids or dogs." Kids prove it every day.
     
  17. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    15,649
    Location:
    Green Bay Wisconsin
    I am in complete agreement with your experience.

    I have a friend who was a top dog trial shooter. This is the ultimate in pressure. when some multi thousand dollar dog is out on a bird, and you miss the shot in front of a gallery of hundreds, that is just not acceptable.

    This man was invited to shoot the Canadian Nationals, so you know he was no slouch.

    So you don't miss. Period. you might sweat blood, but you just don't miss.

    Anyway, he shot for practice a 3/4 ounce load the NRA magazine had in it a long time ago. this load was a tight shooter. He demonstrated by firing into the pond, comparing with mine and other.(He had done all the pattern testing previously)

    It was quite amazing to see him shoot long distance skeet targets at 30 yards or more, standing in the parking lot with that 3/4 oz load. The point here is that as you lighten the shot charge, the loads generally seem to shoot tighter.

    HM
     
  18. rick979

    rick979 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    1,908
    Neil: Your chart shows 1 1/8 oz of 8 1/2's. But does not designate shot size of the 7/8 oz loads...how come? The boy was shooting bunker 7/8 oz and the shells were 7 1/2 Kemen brand.
     
  19. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    7,861
    It may shoot tighter -or it may not - but that's different from saying what rick was told, that the patterns were "denser."

    There have been a couple of articles (same writer) , one in Shotgun Sports, the other in Clayshooting USA which allude to "denser," but it's clear the writer never actually fired a shot to find out, so how's he sure - or in fact, how do we know he knows anything?

    Neil
     
  20. Jennifer

    Jennifer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    463
    I'd add to my last post esp. after Neil's chart, that I usually shoot a tighter choke (IM or full) when I'm shooting 7/8 oz loads, due to the lower pellet count. But for singles, a #9 7/8 oz load has quite a lot of pellets compared to 7.5 and does quite well in my experience. -- Jen
     
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