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50% high POA vs 100% high POA?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by smsnyder, Feb 20, 2010.

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  1. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    Wonder what your thoughts are? 50% vs 100% high?
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    If one is right for you, the other isn't. But neither may be right for you, of course. There's one way to tell: trying several and seeing what suits you, though what will follow will be complicated by the fact that so few actually have any idea where their gun shoots.

    Neil
     
  3. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    Yes, neil you are right. It is hard to understand about point of impact at times. Just read an article in trapshootingUSA magazine about POI. Perhaps you can explain about POI pros and cons. That would be very helpful for many shooters since more and more ribs today are adjustable. Thanks
     
  4. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    This thread has potential.
     
  5. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    I have Model 12's that shoot 9 inches high (above Point of aim) to the center of the hot spot (pattern) on a pattern grease sheet ... I have a TMX that shoots 16 inches high to the center of the hot spot on a grease sheet, and a TM-1 that shoots 12 inches high to the center of the hot spot on a patterning board grease sheet ... The "HotSpot" is the pattern where most amount of density is ... I point right at the target from where ever I shoot from be it 16 yards or handicap, just raise or lower my gun over the trap house to pick up the target out of the house, lower from Handicap ... I have timing issues because I laid off shooting for awhile but that will correct itself sooner or later, not to worry ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  6. Rollin Oswald

    Rollin Oswald Active Member

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    The sight picture with high shooting guns places the muzzle or front bead below the target. How far below depends on how high the gun shoots and the swing speed of the shooter.

    Another consideration when choosing a POI is the regularity of targets' flight paths - how they are affected by the direction of the wind. When it blows from behind the shooter, targets' rate of climb can be reduced or targets can even dip.

    The higher a gun shoots the more difficult it is to judge exactly how far under a target the muzzle must be placed to center the pattern on the target. The difficulty increases when the wind causes the target to dip or rise at a reduced rate.

    In my opinion, it is easier for new and intermediate shooters to use a POI that requires a sight picture with the muzzle touching or close to touching the bottom of targets.

    Rollin
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about POA or POI? Read the title of the thread. HMB
     
  8. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Right, hmb. He's talking about Point of Aim and wondering where to point his gun. What's the problem?

    Neil
     
  9. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Rollin,

    I disagree with you about holding under targets with a high shooting gun. My single barrel shoots 20" high at 35 yards and I push the bead right through the target. I cut the "legs" off the hard angles but do "touch" the bottom edge of the target as I swing through. I would strongly discourage shooters to try and "float" the target as this is way to close to aiming for comfort.

    The high shooting guns make long yardage handicap a bit more manageable (for me), however they can be challenging to shoot 16's with. I made the choice to set up the single barrel gun for handicap rather than 16's because I enjoy 'caps a lot more.

    My doubles gun shoots 15" high in both barrel, again, that's what works for me. I do not float either target just sweep under them touching the bottom edge.

    Others will have to find the POI that works for them and their style or method of shooting.

    Bob Schultz
     
  10. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    The shooter that will say place the muzzle below the target with a high shooting gun NEVER SHOT ONE
     
  11. luvtrapguns

    luvtrapguns Well-Known Member

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    With my TM-1 I have found the following on straight away targets: First, on paper the gun shoots about 65-70% high. If I shoot at the bird with my normal swing It appears as though my gun shoots 80-100% high. I must leave daylight between my barrel and the bird.

    Recently I have been having vision problems (catarats) so I tried riding the birds a little further before shooting. This slowed my swing and follow thru. This method required that I had to nearly cover the bird for best hits, or an apparant 50% POI.

    So, it would appear, depending on your shooting style, that the same gun would have several POI's or rather POA's. The eye to brain response, the brain to trigger finger response, the speed of swing, the degree of follow thru, the lock time, all can and will affect apparant POI. And all these characteristics will vary from one person to another.

    Considering all the things that can influence our ability to hit a bird its no small wonder when someone breaks 100X100. The best thing to do is probably don't over think, just shoot the bird.

    Marc
     
  12. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    My POI's are 5" lower than Bob Schultz's are @ 40 yards, and it appears to me that I'm bringing the barrel/bead right up to the target on a straight away. I don't "try" to hold anywhere. I don't see a gap between the bird and my barrel on a straight away, but there must be.

    And for some reason (trigger speed) the Seitz needs a higher POI than my P-gun.

    I take (1) 1/16th" shim out of my doubles gun to shoot sporting.

    Alf is right, if you have to try to place the barrel somewhere, you are not shooting your natural style or POI.
     
  13. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    This thread about Point of Impact-50% or 100% etc
     
  14. Chipmaker

    Chipmaker Active Member

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    I agree with Bob and Alf I shoot my CG Summit about 12-14" high at 40yds, 4" high at 13yds on paper. this suits my timing and where I like to shoot the target. One must understand the aspect of vertical lead vs flight time and distance of the target. In an example if your a 1 sec time zone shooter a 16yd line target takes 6.7" vertical lead, while leaving your timing the same 1 sec slot at 27 yds its 13.1 inches vertical lead. So if your a really fast shooter at .50 sec from release at the 27yd line you need to have 19.9 inches of vertical lead!!!

    So hopefully this gives you som prespective about POI/POA. It's not what I like or the next guy it's what you are able to shoot and shoot with the best results for you. You'll find guys who shoot dead flat guns and others who swear by 120% high guns. That is what they like and how they like to shoot or have learn to shoot such a gun. Make sure the gun fits you stock fit is very very important. Dont be afraid to experiment but dont keep turning knobs on a gun and chasing your tail.
     
  15. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    smsnyder, I don't see how anyone could shoot a 50/50 POI and be successful at long handicap. Hard to shoot good scores when you have to cover the target or even shoot above it to break it. With a 50/50 POI, you'd have to wait for the bird to top out, or you'd always shoot under it.

    Thats why a lot of bark was missing on trees in the old days.
     
  16. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Chipmaker, could you go a little more deeply into the calculations that lead to your results? Particularly the ones which lead to that difference between 16 and 27 yards.

    Neil
     
  17. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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    It,s very hard to hit a target that you can,t see . My gun shoots a little over a pattern high seitz calls it 120% I have never shot under a target and hit it . A good friend was having alot of trouble with handicap targets his gun is a 70/30 . I got tired of him saying I don,t see how you can shoot that far under a target to hit it . I let him shoot my gun (120%) one round of handicap (25yards) best score he shot in months .
     
  18. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    nervous system delay
     
  19. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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  20. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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