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41 Mag reload help

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by tcr1146, Sep 18, 2011.

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  1. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    As some of you know, I bought a 41 mag this summer. It is a S&W model 57 with 6" barrel. It has been quite a few years since I shot a large handgun so I was skeptical of my ability. However, I bought dies, good cast bullets(210 grn swc) and 210 grn Horn xtp jacketed bullets. I worked up 4 different mid-range loads for the cast bullets and 4 loads for the jacketed bullets. Shame on me, but I assumed the previous owner knew what he was doing and had sighted it in. Wrong! Off 8x11 paper at 25 yards. So I moved to 18 yards and proceeded to sight it in. It was very difficult though as the gun and all four loads wanted to vertically string the shots close to 3 inches in all four cast loads. These loads are right from the Lyman pistol/revolver manual. They are all mid-range load at approx 1050 fps. Here is where I need your help/advice! I then shot two groups with heavy (near max) jacketed loads and I had no problem shooting 5 shot groups of 1.5 " or less and they were in my 1.5" dia bullseye! In the past, I had no problem developing accurate mid-range loads using cast bullets for the 357 and 44 mags. Any suggestion on what may be the problem! Thanks Tom Rhoads
     
  2. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    That is likely you- the verticle string-- I know you will say it isnt so but

    Have someone else shoot it and see if it does the same thing

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  3. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    If me old wise one, why did the heavy loads shoot extrememly well?! Tom Rhoads
     
  4. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Are you using the specified primer on the mid-range loads? Is the powder fast or slow? How full is the case (no grains, I want to know how much room they take up).
     
  5. IndyShotgun

    IndyShotgun TS Member

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    Let's start with the basics. Did you mic the bullets? Do the lead and the jacketed mic the same?
     
  6. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Verticle stinging is you - particurally at that range- 18 yards

    Why not as much with jacketed bullets? You probably didnt fire enough groups

    Maybe you paid attention more or less at different times- thought about your breathing rather than the recoil or trigger

    Now if it would have been verticle stringing at 100 yards- it probably still would have been you but it could also have been the powder

    Just have someone else shoot the groups (that shoots a lot of big bore pistol) and you will know

    Regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  7. larryjk

    larryjk Member

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    A load I have used fo4r several years. R-P cases, CCI 300 primers, 8.0 grains of IMR SR7625(shotgun powder), and a commercial cast 220 grains SWC seated in the crimp ring. Very accurate, gentle recoil, and doesn't lead at about 1050 fps. according to chronograph. My favorite load.
     
  8. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    The Horn jacketed bullets mic .409 and the lead bullets mic .410. Std large primers used in both the cast bullet loads and the heavy loads. The mid-range loads were unique, 4756, blue dot, and 2400. The two heavy loads I grouped were h110 and 2400. Brian, at most, the mild loads only filled approx 1/2 the volume of the case where as the heavy loads were relatively full but not compressed. Keep coming guys! Tom Rhoads
     
  9. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    What are your loads?
     
  10. IndyShotgun

    IndyShotgun TS Member

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    What do the cylinder throats mic?
     
  11. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    Right from the Lyman manual, mid way on the cast loads. 13 blue dot, 9.4 on 4756, 9.1 unique and 16.5 on 2400 using starline brass, large pistol (rem) primer and 210 grain swc out of castmaster. The bullets were extremely consistent on weight with no visible imperfections. They do have slight bevel on the base. Tom Rhoads
     
  12. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    Have not measured cylinder throats. Tom Rhoads
     
  13. IndyShotgun

    IndyShotgun TS Member

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    If you drop a bullet in a chamber, does it fall out the end, or do you have to press it out with a dowel?

    Here's the bottom line: lead bullets out of Smiths are very accurate. If your lead bullets fit tightly, the stringing is likely shooter flinch. Are you test firing in single action?
     
  14. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    So the cast loads are loads you have used in other handguns previously without a problem?
     
  15. Tripod

    Tripod Well-Known Member

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    Iowa man!!
    I used to have that problem in my .44 mag with light wadcutter loads. I was using Bullseye as a propellent. My theory was that I was getting uneven ignition with the relatively large case being empty, therefore developing loads that were not consistent. Only a theory, but when I went to a slower burning larger dose of powder, the problem went away
     
  16. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you mean Brian! I stated that in the past, I had good success using swc lead bullets in 357 and 44 mag and never experienced this vertical stringing, or any poor groups prior to this 41 mag! Tom Rhoad
     
  17. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    Are you shooting from a bench? If so are you resting the barrel on something? I've encountered shooters who rested the barrel on something and the result was verticle stringing due to barrel expansion as it heated.

    Robert
     
  18. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, bench with under barrel lug on sand bag, two hand hold, and butt on sand bag as well! Please, again, note the great groups with the heavy loads. Shot using the same method. If resting barrel on bag, or flinching, I would probably not got the great groups using the heavy loads. If I was going to flinch, it would have been with the heavy loads. Tom Rhoads
     
  19. IndyShotgun

    IndyShotgun TS Member

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    Not necessarily, Tom. Try 5 offhand shot groups at 10 yards.
     
  20. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    What Brian is getting at is that if you are using a relatively low volume of powder in your 'mid range' loads you might be getting inconsistent ignition. Common problem when trying to down load the big cases and it shows up on bench testing.

    Look for a propellant the will take up at least 50% of the available case capacity and still get you the velocity and pressure you are after. This is one reason Unique is so popular with the big bore shooters that use moderate vel cast bullet loads.
     
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