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$4.00 a gallon gas.....& beyond

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by daddiooo, Feb 25, 2011.

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  1. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Why hasn't our "appeaser in chief" jogged over to the Saudis and bowed a few times, dropped a little tarp money, smooched a few butt cheeks and taken care of our petroleum cost problems??? I thought these were "his people."


    Boned yet again by our own government.....
     
  2. stokinpls

    stokinpls Well-Known Member

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    He's too busy shucking and jiving to the MoTown sound. Got to have some time to relax (like about 2 1/2 years).
     
  3. chiefjon

    chiefjon Active Member

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    I paid $4.09 a gallon for desiel this morning...Sacramento, CA
     
  4. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Gas 3.75 here in Thousand oaks Ca
     
  5. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Get this... I'm reading the local paper... and a liberal columnist is demanding an immediate substantial gas tax to push the price over $5 a gallon so we'll use less, thus causing the price to come down!

    No wonder liberals can't balance budgets.
     
  6. sernv99

    sernv99 Active Member

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    "No wonder liberals can't balance budgets."

    can't balance a budget = liberals

    can't balance a checkbook = shelly


    the apple sure does not fall far from the tree LMAO hey shelly, you and the liberals seem to have some things in common....it's ok, we can still use you as TS.com's punching bag
     
  7. patrick smith

    patrick smith TS Member

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    Time to get out of the automotive biz and get back into bicycles. LOL
     
  8. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    Oil is a world commodity. It does not matter what the USA does. The world is using more oil than we are. That is what drives the price. Even if we "drill baby drill" the oil is still sold at those world market prices. The only thing that may effect the price of oil is if we would flood the world markets with our oil. Do you think that would be in the best interest of the oil companies, pulling that oil from our land. To bring the prices down. I do not think there is a business out there that would depress prices because they feel sorry for you and I for paying to much for something, at there expense of profit margins. OPEC would cut production, to hold pricing. Then when we are out of oil, or can not keep up with demand, the price would skyrocket. It has nothing to do with our corrupt politcal system. That's right the whole politcal system.
     
  9. vegas steve

    vegas steve TS Member

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    you are insane if you don't think it has anything to do with our government.if the gas prices keep going up,the already bad economy will get worse. people simply won't go anywhere but work and the store to buy groceries. i myself may have to quit my job because it now costs too much to drive to work.times that by 3 million and where do you think the economy will go ? straight to hell.
     
  10. vegas steve

    vegas steve TS Member

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  11. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Amazingly, all those third world countries must have tremendous buying power. It seems everytime I view TV it shows impoverished individuals sifting through tons of rubbish for saleable trash and supposedly living on less than $2/day. Are these the people who are willing and able to pay for gasoline? After all, these are the countries with the largest population growth.

    On the other hand, maybe those countries with the largest percentage of union workers must have more disposable income and the answer is to unionize all workers in this country. All we have to do is pay everyone $50/hr to stock shelves, tighten a few nuts and bolts on an assembly line or shuffle papers and the problem of high prices will be forgotten.

    Does anyone remember the trucking industry slowdown and the effect on oil prices!!
     
  12. Luckyman

    Luckyman Active Member

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    According to this article at least 15% of the cost of gas at the pump is taxes...Without any taxes associated with the consumption of fuel gasoline would be much less...Here is the breakdown...

    Why does my gas cost so much?"

    It's a valid question, especially when gas prices fluctuate overnight for no apparent reason and TV news talking heads focus on it with the same energy as the health care debate. Some might say there's a good reason to be concerned, especially in light of a recent study by the U.S. Joint Forces Command that pointed to an oil shortage in 2015. A reasonable person has a right to wonder what's going on.

    The genesis for this story was the simple fact that I didn't have a clear idea of why we pay what we pay for a gallon of 87 octane. After reading this story, you'll have a much better understanding of how and why gas prices change, and what the future holds.

    The Billion-Dollar Equation


    Many factors contribute to the price of a gallon of gas. The good news is that, in general terms, the equation is simple. These are the four main components that determine the gas prices you and I pay:

    Crude Oil + Refining Process + Retail Sales/Distribution + Taxes = Gas Price

    These components, however, don't contribute equally to the gas prices at the pump. Here's a look at each component and its role in the retail pump price:


    Crude oil -- 69%


    Finding the crude oil


    Getting the crude oil out of the ground


    Transporting the crude oil to the refinery


    Maintaining a reserve capacity of crude oil


    Profit


    Refining the crude oil into gasoline -- 6%


    Producing special blends of gasoline to meet local clean air government regulations


    Transporting the gasoline to the gas station


    Profit


    Selling the gasoline at a station -- 10%


    Operational costs


    Marketing costs


    Profit


    Taxes, federal and state -- 15%

    Source: U.S. Energy Information Adminstration

    Understanding Gas Price Swings


    Knowing the basic components of gas prices is a good start that makes understanding price swings easier. The two largest components of oil production are the most volatile. Many variables can interrupt the flow of crude oil and the refining process. Most gas price hikes happen in the wake of some kind of disruption in these two areas.

    Hurricane Katrina provided a textbook example of this. It wiped out major drilling operations and refineries on the Gulf Coast. Gas prices shot up because the balance between supply and demand changed. Katrina's wrath caused a significant drop in gasoline production, but demand stayed constant, resulting in higher gas prices in the U.S. and across the globe.

    In the months after Katrina, as the wells in the Gulf of Mexico and the huge refineries along the Gulf Coast came back on line, gas prices came down because supply increased to meet demand. Gas prices then moderated globally.

    While Katrina was an obvious reason for a gas price swing, other factors are harder to identify. If you live in a major metropolitan area affected by the Clean Act, you've likely already seen mild gas price swings. Why? Refineries serving your geographic area have to change their fuel blending process to produce the government-mandated "boutique" gasolines that help reduce vehicle emissions over the colder winter months. These changeovers temporarily reduce supplies, causing modest and short-lived price increases. As soon as the refineries are back up to capacity after the blend shift, prices edge back down. Maintenance at refineries and on oil pipelines can also temporarily reduce supplies, causing localized price jumps.

    What's Happening Now With Gas Prices


    Obviously, gas prices are generally higher than they used to be. If you were driving back in the 1960s, you were used to gas prices of about 25 cents a gallon. Adjusted for inflation, that works out to be about $1.63 per gallon today. However, adjusted for inflation, gas prices between 1984-2001 were even lower. Today, we're definitely paying more than we used to, with the national average around $2.86 per gallon. So what other factors are causing gas prices to rise?

    According to a report by BP Oil, worldwide demand for crude grew by 0.7 percent from 2005 to 2006, a rate that equates to almost 253 million barrels per year. Of some 60 countries surveyed by BP, demand was up in nearly 40 countries, while demand was flat or down in the other 20. For the record, United States oil consumption decreased in 2006 to below the levels of 2004.

    Against this reality of increased demand, especially from developing countries with huge populations such as China (demand up 6.7 percent in 2006), oil production has been fairly flat. Between the jump in demand and flat production, gas prices have risen.

    Several less obvious reasons are also behind jacked-up gas prices:



    The crude oil that has been "the easiest to get" has already been pumped from the ground. Oil companies have to work harder to obtain oil they pump out today, and that costs more.


    The quality of crude oil available now is generally lower, making it more expensive to refine than the more desirable "light sweet" crude that was more widely available in years past.


    Supply uncertainty due to political issues in countries such as Nigeria, Iran, Iraq, and Venezuela, which in turn creates market nervousness. This tends to drive up prices from other oil producing countries because these suppliers can guarantee an uninterrupted supply. Some place the premium at $10 per barrel, but it's nearly impossible to quantify.


    In Pictures: Fuel Efficient SedansTaxes drive gas prices up further


    As noted above, state and federal gasoline taxes account for about 15 percent of the cost at the pump. This figure equates to a national average of about 57 cents per gallon. As you can understand, states with percentage-based sales tax make considerably more on each gallon as gas prices rise.

    While paying nearly 60 cents per gallon in taxes is not great news, compared to many countries, we get off easy. The country of Turkey levies nearly a $5 per gallon tax on each gallon of fuel (this really seems like a "fine"). Norway, even with its oil industry, taxes its gasoline buyers about $4 per gallon. However, some countries enjoy little if any taxation. Most of these same countries also enjoy huge oil reserves and refining capabilities that have been "nationalized" by their governments. In Iran, gas is only 33 cents per gallon, while Venezuelans do even better, with gas as little as 17 cents per gallon. The trade-off, of course, is living under a totalitarian government.

    Is raising fuel taxes further the right thing to do to encourage alternative energy sources?


    No. Raising taxes will cause a non-market driven decrease in oil consumption. This decrease in demand will drive down the world price of oil, making it tougher for alternative energy sources to gain market share. Until alternative sources of energy are profitable to produce on an even playing field compared to gasoline, they won't get to market on a large scale. Many energy experts do not support raising taxes because of this economic reality.

    What about higher mandated fuel economy standards?


    Bob Lutz, GM's outgoing vice chairman, believes "if fuel efficiency is the goal, making it impossible for consumers to buy full-size trucks and SUVs because of mandated fuel economy standards won't help. This will hurt the economy and decrease the demand for fuel, causing lower prices, thereby increasing demand (for fuel)."

    Bob gets it. His point is that Americans should drive what they want until they decide the price of fuel is so important that it makes them choose a more efficient vehicle. If one assumes that gas prices will remain high, these elevated gas prices will encourage alternate energy development. Legislating larger vehicles out of existence isn't the answer. Hey Washington, are you listening?

    DRILL BABY DRILL!!!!!!!
     
  13. shelly

    shelly TS Member

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    Thanks for posting that Luckyman, it was very interesting. Naturally, it will go over the head of the oil company conspiracy theorists, but everything does that. Washington won't listen either.

    You got it 100% right when you said: "DRILL BABY DRILL!!!!!!!"
     
  14. Dahaub

    Dahaub Active Member

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    Just paid 3.89/9 for diesel in Illinois. I really wonder what it would be now if we didn't have the middle eastern conflicts and Egypt and Libya going? I think it's about time the summer raise in prices come along. More gas burned because of vacations and folks doing more with outside sports and recreation. If those folks in the oil country don't settledown the raising of oil futures is never going to stop in my opinion. I don't see any short term end to their conflicts and fighting. What I am saying is we are in for a tough old row to hoe on the gasoline and diesel prices this year. Dammer I just got a job that's 125 miles from the house.:( Dan
     
  15. quartering

    quartering Active Member

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    on the news it was 3.65 in la at 8 am; was 3.75 at noon. 3.83 now. have a pleasant evening
     
  16. billn

    billn Member

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    I am in Gemany now and gas price per gallon is about 8 dollars a gallon.
     
  17. slide action

    slide action Well-Known Member

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    One of the biggest problems driving up oil prices is speculators! They go into the "oil buisness" and have nothing but a desk and a phone!! It should be illegal to be able to buy/sell oil(really just gambling someone will future oil at a higher price than they agreed to take a marker on) unless you can both store and move it!!!!
     
  18. zeroed4x

    zeroed4x TS Member

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    The moratorium on drilling here in the U.S. caused higher demand (world market for you experts) and because its all a futures based commodity market the price goes up. We are competing against China, Europe and everyone else.

    Here is what I believe to be the political motivation.
    Obammy will eventually release the reserves bringing the price down slightly and most likely grand-stand on it while continuing campaign while using this propaganda of "See what a good boy I am"

    Lets just impeach this worthless bag of S#it, get a Republican back in office who actually gives a damn about us.
     
  19. warren

    warren Member

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    This is exactly what our Gov't wants in fact they have stated that it should be about 6 dollars a gallon that way all their envirornmental dreams will come true. They will not even promote natural gas because we have to drill for it and the use of coal is not even allowed in any manner. I believe that if our genuis Gov't would just stay out of it the market will solve our energy problem if there is one, which is questionable.

    warren
     
  20. zeroed4x

    zeroed4x TS Member

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    From my Previous post Re: Obammy Tapping Oil Reserves

    Told ya so.
     
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