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366

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by grntitan, Feb 19, 2011.

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  1. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Jim--I believe you would have to completely change the castings with more modern ones in order to have the filp out wad part. It's not that important to have just a little less convienent. You can adjust it up and down via the set screw to make it easier to slide the wad under the wad ram. You need not worry about wad pressure with modern wads.

    As for the paw indexing the shell plate i'd have to see a pic of its design to help. There are at least two different indexing paws. I load on a older Pacific DL366. I'll help the best i can. Don't hesitate to PM me for any questions. You may want to loosen the plate screw and clean underneath it and then reinstall it so that it freely moves with a slight resistence. Does your indexing paw look like this??

    Matt
    [​IMG]
     
  2. TC

    TC TS Member

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    Do you mean the wad holder is hitting the top of the hull and not rotating?
     
  3. njwoodworker

    njwoodworker Member

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    Jim,
    Examine the rod that the wad guide it attached to with the index plate fully raised. There is groove in the rod about 1/2 inch below the platen assembly that requires a "c" clip to operate the wad guides swing back and forth. Get them at ace hardware for about 25 cents.
    Let me know if its there. It is a fine loader that I have had morethan 25years.
    Dan
     
  4. njwoodworker

    njwoodworker Member

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    JIm,
    The pointed end of the pawl should have a gentle curve downward so that the sharp tip will engage the platen. I would remove the index platen and set it on a flat steel surface and make sure that the points that engage the pawl are DEAD FLAT. Overtime when primers get stuck or the platen has not fully indexed to the dedent the sides of the platen can get bent up or down slightly and will cause the index pawn to not fully "engage" the platen and index the shell.
    I have had the same things you describe happen to me thru the years.
    Dan
     
  5. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    Jim, simple. Box it up and send it off to Hornaday. You'll have to pay the shipping to them. But, It was my experience that they reconditioned my 366, gave me a few extra parts AND didn't charge me a thing. They even covered the shipping cost back to me. Give them a call and get the info from them. They were also quite quick about turnaround time. In my case it was about 10 days total time from the time away from me. Loader works great. Hornaday kicks butt! Jim Price
     
  6. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Jim--I agree with the other posts here. Box it and send it to Hornady(maybe a phone call first) and have them fix 'er up. They have some of the best customer service of any products on the market. They answer the phone and they stand behind their products no matter the age. They also do not care if your the first or the tenth owner. They will make it right where possible. You may be right, they may modernize the castings with flip out wad. Give them a chance and you won't be sorry.

    Matt
     
  7. Ross

    Ross Well-Known Member

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    Jim: As said above definitely call Hornady, they are the best in customer service. I have been using Hornady (Pacific--Bair)for 40+ years, if I ever needed anything 1 call took care of it. When you get it back from them you will have essentially a new machine at very a reasonable cost (if any). just tell them what you use for hulls--components--etc. I'm pretty sure you will be pleased, I know I have been. For the $$ they are by far the best thing on the market. As with any progressive machine there is a learning process (for me mainly learning to watch the primer drop) you will most likely have a couple OOOP's don't get flustered or mad we all had those. Good Luck--&--ENJOY. Ross Puls
     
  8. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    Is it possible you don't have any tension on the spring for the wad guide? The spring...goes down into an aluminum block, and that block holds against the plate ring. You have to lift the block and rotate it a couple times (in the right direction, LOL, you go the wrong way you're trying to rotate the wad guide IN). Old springs can lose their zip...won't rotate the guide out. Might need a new one.

    As for the advance...if you have the 'old style' like Matt is showing...you need to update to the new style - that one pulls, the new one pushes, and its much better.

    Shell falling through hole...there's a wire on that station - its supposed to keep the shell back in the station so it can go into final crimp. I took mine off. My shells almost always fall through the hole...but I know guys who's shells almost never fall through, they say. I can't tell you what the difference is.

    I've had my three 366s since 1979. Other than updating the pawls, and buying new wad guides, I've bought a total of ONE SPRING. Many 000s of shells loaded.

    you'll like it. Eventually. Hornady will set you straight.
     
  9. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    JeffP---I've never had any issues with the old style paw. That said can you explain what would be required to update to the newer pusher style? I'm very mechanically inclined and i'm certain i could make the changes unless it required changing castings and such that i don't have. My dang machine is running so smooth right now i hate to tinker with it. LOL

    Matt
     
  10. Hill topper

    Hill topper Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    Matt,

    I have an older 366 and all I did was just replace the old pawl with the new version, no adjustments required.

    To the orginal poster
    To get the wad guide to rotate inward just lift the spring up and rotate it as someone else stated.

    Be patient with the loader and yourself.

    ed.
     
  11. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    Matt, I loaded with the old style for...hell, had to be 25 years, I think I updated in 2004 or 2005, and I'm not sure what year the new pawl came out.

    I think Ed is right...all you might need to do is put the new pawl on the old arm. BUT...for nothing, or dang near it, you can get the "new" arm from Hornady...they just sent me two new arms and pawls when I asked what I needed to do to update. You just bolt them on and put the new square pawl on and go. Might take 15 minutes if you had to unbolt the machine from the bench first.

    My third machine I bought used...and the arm has two holes drilled in it, both tapped for the set screw that holds the pawl down, and the new pawl. It works fine.

    The thing I really like about the new style advance is that it pushes the plate, rather than pulling it around...seems like with the old style, every so often it would slip off the plate. That never happens with the new style.

    Its a pretty slick upgrade...I'd encourage it.

    BTW, I have obtained my curtain rod, so I'm in the process of making a longer primer tube like you taught us.

    My 366 question for the day: "Is the new primer seating die worth it?" I've seen pictures...its spring loaded, right, so you can change hulls without any adjustment?

    jeff
     
  12. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Jeff--In my opinion the spring loaded primer die is well worth it. When i first bought it i was loading various different brands of hulls. It prevented all the seating issues. I pretty well now only load Remington but i still thing it works better than the stock one. I've heard that arguement go both ways though(like the old Ford-Chevy thing). I just like the way it decides the amount of pressure and depth with the spring.

    For the curtain rod i highly recommend that simple mod too. I must pass the buck on that idea to John(doggai). It was his idea that he emailed to me several years ago. Credit must go to him but it works pretty slick. I have a couple and when you get them loaded up it saves on the primer refill during loading. I'll include the pic of the primer seating die again. Also take a look at the holes i drilled to keep an eye on the primer level. Stole that idea too. LOL---Matt
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    Tracy, that's a great pic to illustrate the difference...that's the 'old' pawl. The new one is about an inch square, instead of long and skinny like that one. And you can see, when the loader advances, its going to reach over one station to the right and PULL the plate around. The new square pawl starts one station to the left of the pic and moves into the one that pawl is resting in...then PUSHES the plate over.

    On the wad guide...hmmm. the guide should just clear the hull when it swings into postion. And you can just barely see in the pic how the block on the wad post is tensioned against the ring on the shell plate. You may have to lift that block up (it slides on that post) and turn it...I think counter clockwise, to the right. That will twist the spring so that on the downstroke, the post will rotate into position. I may have it backward, too. If on the downstroke, the post tries to swing out, you have to go the other way.

    LOL...if Matt or I were there, we could probably have you running in about 10 minutes....but trying to describe it in words is HARD.

    Jeff
     
  14. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Jim--As i stated before, please don't hesitate to PM with any additional questions. Like Jeff stated, its sometimes hard to relay thought via computer but i'll sure try...

    Matt
     
  15. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Jim: the first thing you need to do is read the instructions for the machine. If you didn't get them with the machine then you can download them and print them out off Hornadays Website. You need to read them many times (toilet time works well) Then go over the instructions at the machine to further understand the machine. Fully understanding how everything is supposed to work is the key to trouble free operation. It's not that complicated.

    The new style advancing pawl is about a $3 dollar part and you will need the spring and screw that goes with it. You just remove the hold down screw and change the pawl, there is nothing to that mod.

    Like everybody above said the wad guide probably just needs the spring tensioned correctly. Just a lift the little aluminum block up, and turn it a couple of flats to increase the tension. The rod needs to be clean also with some oil on the pivot points,Not too much just so it rotates freely! The spring on that part is designed to turn the wad guide into the machine as the handle is pulled down. If you look there is a small cam in the casting that engages a roll pin as the platen (bottom casting) travels down. This is what actuates the wad guide to turn it out against the spring. That's all there is too it.

    All of these loaders require a certain amount of mechanical skill to operate. That being said the Pacific and the MEC are about as simple as it gets, and there is a whole lot of people who don't know a screwdriver from a wrench who use them all the time. Don't get discouraged it just take s a little time to get accustomed to the way the machine operates.

    What I do is take my recently aquired machine apart in stages (so you remember where everything goes)and thouroughly clean everything. That way you can see how everything works and then you will "understand" the machine instead of just being able to operate it. Plus it will be clean when you're done. Also the instructions tell you exactly how to set up the dies and adjust everything on the machine correctly. The only advantage to buying a new machine is this is already done for you at the factory. I bought my machine used for $150, and it took 4 hours to completely dissassemble, clean and reassemble. Then 2 weeks to learn how to run it! Keep after it! you'll get there.

    Another thing to look at which makes a big difference is the shell plate. Thats the rotating round part in the center of the machine. Look at it closely, if it has any dents in the top or is obviously not flat then it should be replaced too. It's not expensive $8 I think. When I got my machine it had to be replaced. Get the little plastic end to the primer drop too as they wear out and cause problems. I spent less than $20 on new parts several of which I didn't need.

    These machines work well, but there is a short learning curve. You will drop powder and shot everywhere at least once or twice. Learn the reloading sequence, and follow that sequence everytime and you won't have many problems, If you do drop powder or shot, then the first thing you do is shut off the powder and shot and blow the machine out with an air hose. The bottom platen has groves cut into it specifically to catch powder and shot that fall outside the hull and go under the shell plate. Clean these out by blowing air into the areas. If you don't have an air compressor then you can use a vacuum cleaner to suck up the loose shot.

    Many people build a board with a raised edge around it to mount the loader on so that loose powder or shot don't go everywhere. IT WILL HAPPEN TO YOU, IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO AVOID COMPLETELY. Shutting off the powder and shot drops first and then cleaning the machine out completely and removing all inprocess hulls and starting over is the correct solution. You will learn how to finish the inprocess hulls as you familiarize yourself with the operation of the machine.

    The most common error is when a primer doesn't drop, the next thing that happens is you drop powder thru the open hole in the unprimed hull. This happens to all of us. Usually when you run out of primers. See Matt's primer tube window mod. I did slots in mine, so I can see when the tube is empty.

    To avoid Dropping powder as much as possible I have written these words on the edge of the top casting. Wad, Shell, See primer. These are the actions for each pull of the handle. This means load a wad into the guide, load a new shell into the plate, pull handle smoothly and then, watch to see if a primer drops into it's hole as you slowly and smoothly raise the handle. This saves me alot of time cleaning up messes. Keep after it you'll get the hang of the machine. Plus there is always something to learn about these machines on this site every week.

    I just learned about the springloaded primer seating rod. I know exactly what that is for as I just went to load a new AA hull and the machine left the primer sticking out an 1/8". I was going to adjust it, but now I'll call Hornaday tomarrow, and get the new part, which will eliminate having to do that.

    Good Luck Randy
     
  16. Jeff P

    Jeff P Well-Known Member

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    LMAO...Jim, yeah, I knew there was a hole for the spring in the block. If the guide wasn't moving...you needed tension on the spring, as you found out. Never occured to me that your spring might not be in the hole.

    I'm glad you got it going....they're nice machines. Underappreciated compared to the PW and Spolar, but good.

    Now, if you can just develop the 'hitch' in the upstroke that will let the primer fall everytime without binding up, you're home free.

    PM me, too, if need be. Anytime. Once I had a guy call me, and I sat in front of my loader and he sat in front of his and we talked though it.

    Glad to help

    jeff
     
  17. W.R.Buchanan

    W.R.Buchanan Member

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    Jim: Here's some more pics of the new style advance pawl and the Wad Guide Rotating Cam. Sorry these pics are a little fuzzy as I got in real close.

    The Cam is located directly below the wad guide on the base casting, viewed from the back of the machine. first pic shows the cam and follower (small roll pin) with the wad guide almost in the load position,(Note the pin is part way up the ramp) the second pic shows the pin not in engagment with the cam at all, the wad guide is over the hull at this point.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Next pic is of the New Style Advancing Pawl Also slightly fuzzy

    Last is of the Primer Drop Tube Window along with Primer Drop Stop Pin made famous by the "amazing Jim Skeel".
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Just so you know My machine sat uncovered in a garage on the floor for 20 years and was absolutely filthy before I took it apart and cleaned everything. That's why I got it for $150.

    [​IMG]


    Randy
     
  18. Hill topper

    Hill topper Member

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    Jim,

    Does your 366 have the powder and shot cutoff?

    The main problem with the 366 is changing out the powder bushing without droping out the plate that shuts off the powder.

    My system is to take the whole powder and shot assemble and lay it along the edge of the table or bench. allowing the side of the assembly to over hang the edge of the table.


    Then very slowly and carefully side the bar to the rear to expose the bushings.
    No problem getting the shot bushing out, but often when removing the powder bushing the powder cuttoff slide will fall out and you will have a bit of a problem getting everything back together.

    This is when your manual will be very helpful.


    If someone has a better method of changing out the powder bushing I am interested.

    I generally try to buy enought quanities of the same lot number of powder that I don't have to go through the problem of changing out the bushing.

    I work up my loads on a equally old Mec 650 with an adjustable bar, and avoid making any changes on the 366 that I don't have to.

    You will need to learn to "glide" the primer into its recepter with your operating handle.

    Another useful acessory is a dogleg shovel handle that is made by a Jim somebody that used to post on ts.com.
    This handle puts most of the effort into the bottom of the stroke, makeing a great loader even better.

    ed.
     
  19. Twinbirds

    Twinbirds TS Member

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    1,144
    wonder why there hasn't been an adjustable bar set up made for the 366? System seems like it would be easy enough to make.
     
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