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30 Yards is ONLY a TEMPEST in a TEAPOT here !!!

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Phil Kiner, Nov 7, 2011.

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  1. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

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    This starts every end of season and nothing changes but maybe some added vitriol.

    If you want to see a change made to this game get to your delegate(s) and have them vote on it at the Grand. Anything else is just rhetoric. The EC is not going change something because of heartburn on TS.com.
     
  2. Sportshot

    Sportshot Active Member

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    courageous statement Phil. 30 yard shooting would be exciting and competative, and the dogs that rule the roost in this game will do everything in their considerable power to derail it. Just like the bankers on Wall Street lobby against reform, successfully. So really, why bother? Besides, the game is shrinking faster than Obama's approval rating. We just take it like it is and do our thing. Or sandbag, like a 19 yard handicap shooter at the Grand which is also ridiculous. That is why the dogs won't go back. They have to compete against the unethical wankers on the short end of the field too.

    This is something that you guys should have initiated 20 years ago when the harder targets faded out.

    Sportshot.
     
  3. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    What Phil says is so true! Nothing will be accomplished here on TS except for one thing. Informing a few of those that know only one part of the game of trap, that's the target presentation we shoot today. Trapshooting is a dandy sport whether easy or tougher. Look at the improvements in ammo and specialized competition guns after the last major difficulty was added in 1955?

    Delegates will and have determined how the game is played then and now, be careful when selecting them, they set the tone of the game.

    Hap
     
  4. Brad Dysinger

    Brad Dysinger Member

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    Phil I posted on the other 30 yard thread, I didn't see your thread, you can read it if you want. I think back to how much fun we had in the 80's shooting together. Remember the time at Ohio you played all the money in the doubles instead of the handicap by mistake. Then broke the 99 in the caps.

    Shooters today would try and blame the casheir, or squader, but few would own up to it like you did. Of course there were a lot of 6 grand handicaps back then so if you lost one there was always tomorrow's.

    Shooters today whine about a trophy, or all american points, comlain about target settings, think what they'd do if they messed up a 6 grand win like you did or like when I missed the 99th bird at the grand that cost me 30 grand.

    Phil you and I could write a book about our mess ups and stories just about when we were shooting together. Brad
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Is this a pre-publication offer?

    truly sounds like a new T&F column lol
     
  6. FlaLagarto

    FlaLagarto Well-Known Member

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    Sportshot,

    You stated above "and the dogs that rule the roost in this game will do everything in their considerable power to derail it"

    OK.. enough of your BS, show us where you have any evidence of this happening.

    Where were you when Phil made his suggestion to the BOD ??
     
  7. dbcook

    dbcook TS Member

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    brad,maybe you have hit on a very good idea. perhaps you kiner stafford ross bonillas robinson harrison wilbur ohye gilbertson carmicheal hall smith hoppe sears orlich & others could write a book on the comaradire{spelling} the shoots &the money that was won & lost back in the day.i think it would be a very good read. some newer ata members may be amazed at what used to be. dwain
     
  8. kgun_shooter

    kgun_shooter Member

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    Phil,

    Didn't you write just a while ago about how a majority of shooters were over handicapped and that shooters should take a mandatory yardage reduction? Are you advocating a longer yardage be implemented? For who? The very few shooters that are competitive at that yardage? Most of the clubs I shoot at there are only a couple of regulars that even shoot at the 27. Wouldn't it be a little burdensome to add three yards of concrete? I personally believe that more yardage is not the answer. People in this sport have to realize that the ones with the most time and resources succeed in this game. If the average person wants the playing field leveled then a separation in competition is needed from those that could be considered professional and the ones that are not. It was done before so it could be done again.
     
  9. 4EVRYOUNG

    4EVRYOUNG Member

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    No matter how much concrete we add the guys that are on top currently will be on top again. Mandatory reduction until you maintain a 91% avererage on 1000 targets then you become eligable for a punch,I don't know the answer.
     
  10. wlc

    wlc Member

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    Would not a reduction in the maximum amount of shot allowed have some of the desired effect? It would not place a burden on clubs to pour more concrete. I doubt that it will make the average shooter competitive with the more skilled though.
     
  11. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    I would be willing to bet the top shooters could go to the 30 yard line and still shoot good scores right off the bat.

    "Why bother" I'm glad our forefathers didn't have that attitude!

    I agree with dbccok, that would be a great book.
     
  12. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again. It does no good to discuss it here. Talk to your delegate.
     
  13. John Galt

    John Galt TS Member

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    Yardage has never been added to handicap in the entire history of the ATA and shouldn't be added now. Ditto for the maximum shot weights and shouldn't be changed now. The old timers never changed anything in trap so we shouldn't either.

    Anybody who advocates any changes to perfection is a rabblerouser who should be summarily drummed from the ATA, then executed.
     
  14. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    "Yardage has never been added to handicap in the entire history of the ATA and shouldn't be added now"

    Boy do you need to research your ATA history.
     
  15. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    John, I don't want you misquoted but, I know your wrong...or was it tongue-in-cheek...
     
  16. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    I agree that whats discussed on here doesn't get heard by the ATA unless we let our delegates know.

    I said in the other thread that the only reasonable thing is to add concrete because that is what handicap is..a yardage game..no classes..so it doesn't make sense to do anything else. Changing loads or targets hurts all the shooters not just the ones that need moved back.
     
  17. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet Active Member

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    I believe thaat all we need to level the playing field is number 1 mandatory reductions, number 2 full 50 yd targets, and number 3 wider angles.

    If you make reductions mandatory as are punches mandatory these shooters who are not competitive at 27 yds will become competivive at some shorter yardage. As these shooters move forward many at some yardage 25-24-23-22 or wherever they will start to break better scores and many of these former under average 27 yarders will start to shoot scores that will let them win hdcps events. Not only will this reduce the dominance of the 27 yd line it will make more shooters comfortable playing some options.

    In my opinon breaking a score to get a shooter to the 27 yd does not give you the right to stay there forever. It is not fair to these shooters nor is it fair to the sport of trapshooting. In any other sport that has a hanicap system a players hdcp is based on their current status, not what they were able to do 3 yrs, 5 yrs , or 10 yrs ago.

    Another problem with the 30 yard line for many clubs is that post 1 and 5 on adjoining traps will be very close together. Even on the fields at Sparta this would make the 30 yard line to close to the next trap. This could even become a safty issue and it would be a nightmare from overcalls from one trap to the next. For most clubs it wouldn't be as simple as just adding 3 yards of concrete to the existing walkways to make the 30 yd line workable.
    A question that I need to ask is it going to be more prestigous to be on the 27 yd line if 30 yds is the maximum or to be on 24 yd with 27 yds being the top yardage?

    If this doesn't do emough to level the playing field lengthen the distance the targets are thrown until it does level the playing field, but remember that the better shooters will still be hard to beat unless you as a shooter work hard enough to become one of the top shooters.

    Just my thought on this issue.
    Dave Berlet
     
  18. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    All well and good Dave but how many shooters you know are capable of making it to the 22 or whatever from the fence? Since a 96 gets yardage and not much else it won't be long before they're right back to winning nothing nor making a dollar.

    We all know plenty about cross calls before the age of voice pullers. Move 'em back!!
     
  19. Harv Shell

    Harv Shell TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Wow Dave, I've never heard it put more succinctly. That would be a great start to try to even things out. 3 great ideas that wouldn't cost anyone a dime. I'll talk to my delegate about that, and add in making yardage harder to get. Harv Shell
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    "Yardage has never been added to handicap in the entire history of the ATA and shouldn't be added now."

    Another comment from the ranks of the uninformed!!!!!!!

    Bob Lawless
     
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