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3 hours of Obama Care

Discussion in 'Politics, Elections & Legislation' started by Setterman, May 15, 2013.

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  1. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Sat through 1 1/2 hours of an expalanation on Obamacare. We had an expert in the insurance field talk to a group of business owners and administrators. This lady knew the bill inside and out. After the first 1 1/2 hours I had to leave, but it was obvious that this bill was put together by some scholars who didn't know squat about real life. Wow, it couldn't get much more complicated and yet many scenarios have no end result.

    Estimated savings per year was $2,500. Now, they claim it will cost an additional $3,500 the first year and get worse quickly as insurance companies back out, and certain age groups opt out, and jump back in when the need insurance. The Feds are ill prepared to deal with 25 states that have deferred.
    It will take thousands of people to administer in the private offices as well as the government.

    It will be a confusing catastrophy, ladened with heavy fines for busineeses and individuals who are not propared to follow the law.

    If you own a business, are self employed, and have not checked this out. Do it now. The last 1 1/2 hours was about fines and details.

    This is going to be a nightmare for businesses and insurance companies.
     
  2. perezal

    perezal Member

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    Are we going to have to wait a year on the appointment book to see the doctor?
     
  3. darr

    darr Well-Known Member

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    ZGUN I too am a charitable soul.But when charity is taken from you then it ceases to be charity.It is theft.

    There is no way a fiscal conservative can believe that creating this ridiculous beaurocracy is the right way to take care of those less fortunate.If you think that your "contribution" is being well spent then your standards are easily met.The last time I checked the country is 17 trillion in debt.


    I don't know what your tax bill is but I know what mine is and has been.I feel comfortable that I am "contributing" enough.I am not comfortable with the way my "contributions" have been wasted.

    I give generously to many causes and I hope you do as well.But don't be a sucker.



    Darr
     
  4. Avatar

    Avatar TS Member

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    Every other industrialized nation provides health care to its citizens--and usually saves money by doing so--and I think it a shame that we've lagged so far behind. There was a time when the United States actually led in such things.

    The health care act (I don't even like calling it Obamacare, as I think he sold us out on this one) is more properly a health insurance reform act. Some of the reforms are good, such as, eliminating the nasty little practice of insurance companies denying individual plan insureds continuing coverage as soon as they experienced medical problems and started to make claims; requring insurance to be provided in spite of pre-existing conditions, etc. Unfortunately, though, it is not a real health care plan, and does not eliminate the "middle man." It is also grossly over complicated. I was never a George McGovern supporter during his presidential bids; but, I have to say he hit the nail on the head when he noted that, instead of a bill thousands of pages long, all we needed was a single sentence saying "Medicare shall be extended to all U.S. citizens."
     
  5. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    Grab your ass folks.... The IRS is the enforcer.....






    jerbear_2008_0303247.jpg



    Jerbear
     
  6. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    RE: Every other industrialized nation provides health care to its citizens--and usually saves money

    Run up to Canada the next time you feel sick....
     
  7. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    Funny how most specialist from Canada practices in the Detroit area. My neurosurgeon had his team from Windsor.

    Many practice in the Henry Ford group.

    They refuse to work in Canada.....








    jerbear_2008_0303249.jpg



    Jerbear
     
  8. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Every other industrialized nation does not have 'health care', many have socialized medicine in one form or the other, but none of them work as you ostriches expect Obamacare to. More than one of my English friends have been sent home to die while waiting for treatment. Obamacare is NOT reform, it is crony redistribution and reparations, plain and simple.

    Zgun,

    As a true Christian you have every right and opportunity to give all you want, all you have to those you feel are in need. In fact, we encourage you to do so. You do NOT have any right to take from me and mine to facilitate your philanthropy. You have no idea what need I have of my wealth, or what my family needs are? Nor do you have the right to inflict marginal, limited or delayed care on my ill daughter when I had the means care for her.

    The Bible tells you that 'the poor will always be with us'. Your self-financed good deeds will constantly be in need. Your head-in-the-sand approval and support of this Obama-Bludgeoning is neither Christian, or stewardship.

    I have family in the healthcare business, they all know about meaningful reforms for the system, and to the-one they are dead-set against what is coming. And, it will be enforced by the IRS Brown shirts? Wake up!

    Kip
     
  9. SirMissalott

    SirMissalott Active Member

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    I think we can all agree something needs to be done, however I for don't want to trust our Government to do it. Weather by corruption and deceit ( Vote Buying 0 or just plain incompetence & inefficiencies our GOVERNMENT can't get the job done. From the very beginning of Socialized medicine decisions ( if you can call what goes on behind doors except to the privileged political class ) the congressional budget office has stated obamacare will result in less care at a higher price?
     
  10. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    I think this Affordable Care Act could deplete our GDP by 5-7%. Consider the overhead cost of each individual business to protect themselves, let alone administer the plan. And then you have the government (non-producer's cost) to facilitate not only the base plan, but to enforce the fines....86,000 IRS agents and 100,000 clerical???? Thats more jobs than we created in April of 2013!

    Believe me, we don't have clue what a cluster f--k this is gonna be. And ZGUN, when we are in an economic withdrawl, and we will be, who gets hurts most?

    The very people you want to help. But are they the people who can't help themselves....or won't?
     
  11. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    jerbear_2008_0303251.jpg



    Jerbear
     
  12. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    At our local hospital (town pop. of 8,500) the charitable care went from aprox. 2.1 million last year to an estimated 8 million for this year... guess who gets to pay for this.......This is the future with Obama Care...

    I don't mind helping someone who will help themselves but for illegals and those who play the system they can choke on their own puke as far as I'm concerned.
     
  13. birdogs

    birdogs TS Member

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    This catastrophe is NOT about healthcare and never was. It was NEVER about "coverage" for the presently uninsured. It was NOT about cost-containment. These factors were real and need to be addressed but were only used to sell this load of crap to our congress and to us. Obamacare was always about POWER. The people who control the purse strings have the power. Through this legislation, the government (read, politicians) have the power of the purse as well as the power of life and death over all of us, singly and collectively. They constructed a system that was so good that the very first thing they did was to exempt themselves from it. Do you wonder why I say, "America is OVER"!
     
  14. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    There's not one single person in the US that can't walk into a hospital ER and get treatment for whatever ails them without paying a dime. Yes even the illegals.

    Obamacare and the load of crap they sold us is about control....pure and simple.

    His sh@t is just starting to hit the fan.....and it will be distributed evenly.

    Some of you saps need to wake up.
     
  15. steve66

    steve66 TS Member

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    If Obamacare is so great and a cost saver, why not first test the system by enrolling all our elected officials, their families, & all other civilian government employees currently receiving premium medical benefits. If the American people demanded this, I am willing to bet that Obamacare would be history.
     
  16. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Steve,

    That is one excellent idea you have there.

    ZGun,

    Your words give the appearance of betraying your beliefs and actions. You could be a speech writer for this administration (word used in it's lowest form)

    As for Obamacare, the scam is not new, it is pandering for power at it's most obvious. What is unique, is the amount and multi-directional of pandering it institutes- poor, illegals, drug companies, hospital groups, everyone but the middle class tax payer, and the elderly. It's plunder and euthanasia in the same breath.

    "All the perplexities, confusions, and distresses in America arise, not from defects in the Constitution or confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, as much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation." - John Quincy Adams

    "One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge - even to ourselves - that we've been so credulous." - Carl Sagan

    And finally,

    "See if the law takes from some persons what belongs to them; and gives it to persons to whom it does not belong. See if the law benefits one citizen at the expense of another by doing what the citizen cannot do without committing a crime. Then abolish this law without delay, for it is not only an evil in itself, but also is a fertile source for further evils, for it invites reprisals. If such a law is not abolished immediately, it will spread, multiply and develop into a system." - Frederic Bastiat 1801 - 1850

    "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws."
    - Mayer Amschel Rothschild 1744 - 1812

    The definition of learning is:"an event or knowledge that causes a beneficial change in behavior". We have learned nothing from history.

    Kip
     
  17. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    ZGun,

    I'm not surprised that you don't understand the actual history - not philosophy. There are many people that want to help others, me and my family for one. We do it regularly and from our own abilities. Abilities that are diminished by insincere shysters that don't walk their talk, never intended to, and always have money and control designs. Help is a public service that used to be carried out via our Christian churches - and still is in the heartland.

    Your insistence that help is not already available is just wrong. You seem to know the value of everything, and the cost of nothing? Emotion without reason and understanding is paving the road to Hell (and not the one in Michigan).

    Obama will not release any of the WH records on meetings with big Pharma, or the AMA that took place on Obamacare. Why not? This from the "most transparent" government? The Act itself has ballooned from 2000 pages to 16,000 pages of new and conflicting regulations.

    Medicare, which already provides health services was raided for 700 Billion - money that has severely reduced current care for the elderly. This is progress? My father is currently in a nursing home recovering from a serious illness. The Medicare rules/cuts are constantly cited for reduced tests and medications to treat him. Cuts required and services changed under Obamacare.

    We are paying $3K each month to see that he gets the necessary care. There is no benefit in the Affordable Care Act for him/us. And, just as history predicts, "the inequities further evil, invites reprisals and is developing into a system of inequities" - not equality or better care.

    Though I doubt that you'll know, Obama's primary issue in the AHCA was limiting care for the elderly and chronically ill - "sometimes it might be better to just take the pill" recall that speech? Opponents of the Act have termed this "death panels", and they do exist in the Act. I'm here to tell you they exist, now. Try to appeal a turned down test or procedure under mandated modified Medicare. Secondary health insurance is now limited to medicare standards.

    The reason that I included the quotes is enlightenment. This type of scam, and it is a scam on the productive populous, can be implemented and perpetrated because we're not paying necessary attention to our elected officials. And, we have citizens and voters that will quickly abandon their intelligence for emotional convenience or just plain laziness and ignorance.

    Your 'feel good' is your delusion borne of inattention and a willful suspension of disbelief. Many of us on this site don't know everything, but we are living much of this administration's hubris, it is true reality, and again, not philosophy. None are so blind, as those that will not see. By all means, keep your fantasy.

    Here are some of this week's poles to dispel one of you delusions. You're entitled to your opinions, but not your own facts.

    55% View Health Care Law Unfavorably
    35% Say Health Care Law Has Hurt Them; 19% Say It’s Helped
    59% Favor Free Market Over Government Control To Reduce Health Care Costs


    Kip
     
  18. Catpower

    Catpower Molon Labe TS Supporters

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    Well said Kip
     
  19. R.Kipling

    R.Kipling Well-Known Member

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    Kev,

    Last shot. I do not have any beliefs when it comes to this world. I build a basis of overwhelming facts supported by the knowledge and understanding of critical points and experience. I have no intention of pushing my 'belief system' on anyone. That comes from free will. Other than that, I'm ambivalent.

    Kip
     
  20. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    You guys can argue all you want, but one thing is for sure. This entire contrived experiment is going to be a disaster.

    Our independant lecturer who insisted on re-maining non-political (She would not talk politics, nor did she work for an insurance company), said that within 3 or so years, over 1/2 of the insurance companies would drop out due to complexities and liabilities of plan management.

    At the end of the day, taxes will have to be raised to pay for the freeloaders getting some public benefit for nothing.

    Sounds familiar doesn't it.
     
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