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3 Hole + targets mandatory

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dr.Longshot, Aug 29, 2009.

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  1. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    3 Hole targets would be mandatory at all shoots, and shoot-offs should be a wider target angle to save expenses of the clubs and ATA.

    I have been told that a PAT TRAP cannot throw a 3 hole target, this was posted on a previous post.

    Can a PAT TRAP throw a true and honest 3 hole target angle?

    I know it is not a Winchester 1524 Trap machine that has the capabilities to throw a 5 hole target.

    Shoot-offs should be a 4 hole target and that would take more concentration on the shooters part and save all concerned money for Targets, Shells, machine life Etc.

    I got to the 27 yard line on 3 hole targets and have been here a long time.

    I shoot a lot of buddy shoots and they don't throw an easy 2 hole target.

    I much prefer a 3 hole target. My opinion and I am entitled to it w/o scrutiny by others.

    Don't waste your time rebuffing my opinion, they are mine and there are a lot of others that support it, Steve Carmichael, Phil Kiner, Brad Dysinger, and a lot of others.



    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  2. tcr1146

    tcr1146 Well-Known Member

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    Would not dream of "rebuffing" your new rule Gary! Any others before the day is over?! Tom Rhoads
     
  3. W.P.T.

    W.P.T. TS Member

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    The ATA will not enforce such a rule because it will cost them shooters in a damn quick hurry ... When I started shooting they were all 3 hole and I can still miss them set in the 2 hole so I shoot whatever they throw and take my chances ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  4. Michael Jobe

    Michael Jobe TS Member

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    What does it say about trap shooters if a three hole target, the target thrown for a large % of the ATA's history, is enough to make them quit? Tells me they're a buncha sissys, more concerned about their average and their ego than they are about competition and the health of the sport.

    Honestly, I don't think there are many shooters under the age of 60 that would be upset if we went to a 3 hole target, and I think a lot of shooters under 40 years old would welcome it. Hell, I've said multiple times, "4 hole, throw 'em 55 mph, and go to 7/8 oz of shot". That's the kind of shake up the singles game needs.

    ~Michael
     
  5. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Sporting Clays is doing very well and they throw some targets tht are very hard to hit. HMB
     
  6. Jerry Parr

    Jerry Parr Member

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    .....Gary. As EE stated, you are indeed entitled to your own opinions. Do you really expect placing your opinions on a PUBLIC forum are not, and should not be open to PUBLIC scrutiny and discussion?? Wow! One other note....you obviously think those 'easy' 2 hole targets need to be toughened up. I personally miss plenty of the damn things as they are. The Gary Bryant I found managed a 87 handicap avg on 800 targets. I agree, the 3 hole target is a little more difficult. Just need to clarify....if you get the 3 hole targets you want and break mid 70's to low 80's are you going to be more competitive?? Are you going to have more fun?? Are you gonna shoot more than 800 targets a year?? Are you saying your scores are going to go up, and Leo and Ricky's scores are going to go down?? Your opinion is yours, and I respect that. I am just having trouble seeing the 'positive spin' side to your proposals. Shoot well.....Jerry
     
  7. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    Leave the game the way it is for Petes sake. I'm so tired of hearing people cry about the flawed game because Leo and the gang are shooting our pants off. They are good and thats all there is to it. It so sounds like a bunch of jealousy. It reminds me of a couple of kindergarden kids playing and one kid leaving because he wants to play by his rules so he can win. Get good yourself or shut up. Hell it gives me something to go after and i've got so far to go. There is always i mean ALWAYS going to be BIG DOGS no matter what you do. The people that should be complaining are the Big Dogs because they are getting bored.----Matt
     
  8. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    I have viewed the original thread (scrutiny) and my opinion, and I am entitled to one, is that Dr. Shortshot just keeps posting the same damn crap. It is my opinion that the man needs help and doesn't really have a clue.

    Please see other threads recently started by the same individual who doesn't want anybody to see them.

    Don
     
  9. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    My observations.....

    The 2 hole generation is aging and dying off......Our youth gets bored with such an easy game, thus the shooters of tomorrow tend to prefer Bunker Trap.

    The powers to be need to realize that todays youth has no patience for an event that takes all day and 300 shots to win a 100 target shoot. Todays youth like it fast and furious.......Until you toughen up the game to where only 1 or 2 shooters shoots above 95 to win the grand, .....will the game have much of a future.

    You may have to lose a lot of dead weight in order to survive.

    Other shooting disciplines have to toughen things up, sometimes every year, and never lose shooters over it.....The ATA needs to pay attention to what works, and giving targets away is not going to secure your future.

    Trap shooters NEED to get over the fact that you do not get better with age, forever.
     
  10. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    The first question on this thread "can a PAT Trap throw 3 hole targets" suggests to me that it was asked by a person who has never set targets. Advice from such a person on how to set targets might be questioned by some.

    Instead of throwing three hole singles targets why don't we try this and see if it helps trapshooting. Let shooters shoot two hole targets but deduct 2 targets from the scores of the C and D shooters. Deduct 1 target form the A and B class shooters and deduct none from the AA shooters. This would approach what three hole targets would do to the singles game. Three hole targets would not bother me too much personally, but it would affect my good friend who has an 83 singles average. He is an active shooter and a great supporter of the sport.

    Pat Ireland
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    221, if the shooters of tomorrow like bunker better, how may shoot it compared to ATA trap?

    I thought a day's shooting in bumker is more like 75 targets, far less than three hundred. Is this your idea of "fast and furious?"

    What's your average? And your name, so we can check how "easy" it is for you.

    Neil
     
  12. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    neil......to use your words......Thanks for reading what I said. I thought it was pretty straight forward....plain enough for even you to understand.


    Question neil......Did the ARMY Team participate at Sparta?
     
  13. duh

    duh TS Member

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    Neal Winston - Sir:

    I have always valued and profited from your many posts - for them I thank you and for your contributions to the ATA.

    I take exception to the above post - in that spirit I post the following reply - I ask:

    how many bunker trap fields are available and their distribution in our country in regard to the number of ATA trap fields and their distribution

    what is the problem with bunker matches being decided by fewer targets (increasing the difficulty to eliminate many ties and extended shoot offs)

    what is the reason a name and average should be posted - how does that relate to the merit of his position

    Again expressing my appreciation of your many posts - I be duh
     
  14. shannon391

    shannon391 Active Member

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    The youth?

    How many can afford to shoot the program?

    And if they are so fast and furious on easy targets why don't they just play all the options on the main handicaps and clean house.

    They could take all there winnings and shoot Helice, ZZ and bunker or flyers for that matter if they really got game.
     
  15. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    duh, there are far, far more ATA fields than bunkers. 221 just said that young shooter prefer bunker. Some do. But the 891 AIM shooter at the 2009 Grand seem to like what the ATA offers, so I wondered how 221 could know that they would rather be shooting bunker.

    Whenever someone says that ATA trap is too easy, I think we have a right to see if he's able to prove that. There are literally dozens of people right here on TS.com who claim it's too easy but shoot poorly-to-miserably and while 221 is entitled to his own opinions on other subjects, I think it's fair for us to see whether he can bear his claim out with ultra-high averages of his own. If he can't, we've no reason to take his opinion (on that sole subject) seriously.

    I see no problem with bunker matches being decided by whatever system the shooters and governing body prefer. If they want to shoot 75 or twice that or ten times that, it's fine with me. It's just that the choice of fewer targets makes it hard to imagine it being described as "fast and furious", that's all.

    Neil
     
  16. Champion II

    Champion II Active Member

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    Shortshot has to be turning down reductions to stay on the 27. Come on Neil just move him forward he is not smart enough to do it on his own. How about so he gets it in the mail the 24th of december. Then poke your nose in at the Grand we will hope to see you in the shootoffs....then you can slay the dragon for all to watch!!!!Guess what you still won't be there!!!!1
     
  17. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    You could throw all straightaways and I would still miss a bunch.

    3 hole targets would not make any difference in my scores. What makes me miss is loss of focus. If you can hit high 4 you can hit any trap target.

    I would like to see 3 hole mandated.

    HM
     
  18. IcySwan1

    IcySwan1 TS Member

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    New shooter here. What is this 3 or 2 or 4 hole target of which they speak? I have loaded Caldwells and White Flyers, but really don't recall holes. Thanks for any insight.

    Mike McConahy
     
  19. fssberson

    fssberson Active Member

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    If you want to grow the sport, it is not the "youth" we need. It is the 45+ guy with disposable time and income sufficient to participate.

    As to the concept of 2 hole vs 3 hole targets, Pat is right, the good shooters would still be the good shooters and the poor shooters would get worse. What's the point of that?

    As my shooting has progressed over the last three+ years, the most fascinating aspect is how much the game changes the better you get and how you have to adjust to those changes to compete. This is why it is interesting to know where someone is in that journey when they comment. It is not that the better shooters are always more credible about an item but they certainly have a different perspective.

    JT
     
  20. ffwildcat

    ffwildcat TS Member

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    Neil - Here's how fast and furious bunker is - under the current rules nobody has posted a perfect score. NOBODY. And we're talking some seriously talented shooters.

    What does the number of targets have to do with fast and furious? Are you suggesting a 200 target singles event followed by another 3-400 shootoff is anything but ridiculous? International Bunker matches are shot over a 125 target course of fire, 75 on day one and 50 on day two followed by a final of 25 targets for the top 6 places. Shootoffs go 1-10 targets. Fast and furious has nothing to do with the pace of play - it has everything to do with degree of difficulty. Domestic matches can be anywhere from 125 targets to 300.

    I would really like to see the American Trap game go to a 3 hole target - that would be fun.

    Had a couple of trap shooters come over to the bunker today, one guy shot a 17 and 18, the other guy shot in single digits - both left shaking their heads.
     
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