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3/4 oz, 20 gauge AAHS hole in crimp?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Zoom.Golly, Jul 21, 2013.

  1. Zoom.Golly

    Zoom.Golly Well-Known Member

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    I'm loading 3/4 ounce 20 gauge loads in AAHS hull. I have some of those hulls, I've read they have less capacity than the STS/GunClubs, and I like knowing that when I see a reload in that hull it is 3/4 ounce. My reloads in STS/GunClub hulls are all 7/8 ounce. I'm loading Fiocchi primers, ~15.8 grains of Universal, and the Claybuster 3/4 ounce 20 gauge wad.

    About a third of these have a hole in the center of the crimp, and a bit less than half of those have a hole big enough that it would leak #9s if I didn't add a drop of wax. I have the cam all the way down and use just enough was pressure to kiss the pressure indicator with this wad and to give a tiny bump to the 7/8 ounce wad.

    I use the same crimp and wad pressure setting for 7/8 ounce (in STS hulls) and 3/4 ounce (AAHS hulls). I'd rather not change reloader settings between the two loads.

    What's the SIMPLE solution?
     
  2. Zoom.Golly

    Zoom.Golly Well-Known Member

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    I loaded this load with puffed wheat and a 7/8 ounce wad for many years. I was hoping these new 3/4 ounce wads I wouldn't need the puffed wheat. If they do these will be the last of these wads I'll buy and I'll just simplify my wad inventory with a single 20 gauge wad.
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Lower the crimp starter until the hole goes away. HMB
     
  4. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    HMB is on the right path. Lower, or raise the crimp starter, and see what you get. It DOES make a difference on the crimp.
     
  5. Zoom.Golly

    Zoom.Golly Well-Known Member

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    Crimp starter eh? I never would have thought that, but then I use old MECs that still have silver metal crimp starters. There's not much adjustment on them. I guess I could add a washer or two.

    Next time I buy supplies I should see if my dealer has any of the new black plastic Spindex starters.
     
  6. Zoom.Golly

    Zoom.Golly Well-Known Member

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    I tried a few washers under the silver metal crimp starters. It might have help some. Out of 100 loaded I still had to wax 8 (4 definitely would have leaked #9s, 4 were maybes so I waxed them too).

    I ordered a new plastic spindex. We shall see.

    Odd thing is that the AA20hs hulls supposedly have less capacity than the Remingtons, but the Rems leave no center crimp holes. Seems it should be the other way.
     
  7. Bob Butler

    Bob Butler Active Member

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    I am fooling with this same issue. Looking for a light 20 ga load for younger shooters who have not grown into the bigger 12 ga gun that weighs more.
    Still not perfect.
    The lower crimp starter on a single stage mec has helped but I really dont have the same success I am having loading 7\8 in a 12 ga hull with the grey clay buster.
    The 12 ga load in an 1100 is a pussycat to shoot. If they can hold the gun up they can shoot it with out to much recoil.
    Hope to find a 20 ga answer that works for smaller shooters till they grow into the 12.
     
  8. grouse 1970

    grouse 1970 Member

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    did u check wad pressure???
     
  9. johnboy

    johnboy Member

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    I use the reloading data from the CB wads using 13.9 grains International power and get very good crimps on STS, AAHS and AA hulls. Clay Buster does not list Universal power on the loading data with the 3/4 oz. wads I brought a year ago. I use Universal power W/STS hulls in 20 ga 7/8 oz. loads, very soft shooting combination.
     
  10. billyboy07208

    billyboy07208 Member

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    Exactly Not,
    You want to have the press set up up for old style AA.
    You should seek them out on the for sale BBS.

    Your "cure", until you cant get "old style" anymore,is........

    1, a pinch of any paper rolled into a [1/4"] ball,and dropped ontop..

    OR 2, a [1] what is called a "pinto bean",dropped ontop.

    Ive used both,and what you want in the end is just something handy and cheap.

    it really can be anything you can roll up in two fingers,or tear off of.

    Ive used bits of paper bags,it matters not if your crimps are dished with such light loads,,just,,,so nothing be leaking.
     
  11. Redcobra

    Redcobra Active Member

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    I load a ton of 3/4oz using the AAHS with the CB1075-20 wad and 16gr of 20/28 with no holes.
     
  12. trw

    trw Member

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    You might want to check both the final crimp cam itself as well as the roller if your loader has seen a lot of use. Both can & do wear; rollers usually go first, but the cam nose can also become worn & if worn enough looses some of the adjustment range.

    When you get your new Spindex 20 ga. crimp starter also remember that there are both 6 & 8 point crimp starters. Set it so that you have an opening in the hulls mouth aprox 3/16" when press handle is all the way down. If you are using a 6 point crimp starter on a hull requiring an 8 point, holes will frequently be present in the finish crimp.

    Let us know what you find & if you get your problem resloved. MEC is also very friendly & helpful. You might give them a call & see what they have to say. FWIW, I've loaded about 4K rounds using the CB 3/4oz. wads in both old and new AA hulls on an older single stage MEC & never have issues w/holes in the crimp. Re-setting a MEC is a no-brainer and I am always suprised about people who are afraid to make even minor adjustments to their loaders. There is no voodoo involved, but from many peoples' remarks you'd quickly get the impression there is. Not picking on you, just saying that it is pretty straight forward & if it becomes tedious something is likely worn or you are not following MEC's owner's manual instructions when setting it up.

    Good shooting,
    tw
     
  13. Zoom.Golly

    Zoom.Golly Well-Known Member

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    Bad news, bad news, good news.

    Bad news #1 - I got the new Spindex. No joy. Still got the hole in the middle. I got an even dozen out of 100 that I waxed. Crimps looked worse coming out the the precrimp and crimper than with the silver crimp starter.

    Bad news #2 - After fooling with loading 100 I was considering sending it back to Gamaliels along with the 12 gauge I ordered as well. When fooling with the packaging I turned the instructions over and discovered a caveat there that these Spindexs would not work if the loader had an old wad guide. My loader has the old wad guide and it think that is why I did not get a good crimp start.

    Good news - I came up with a temporary jury rig to lower the crimp cam a bit and that fixed the hole in the center. On one finished shell there was the slightest indication that I was on the verge of buckling the case.

    Since this is a well used forty year+ loader I checked cam and crimp roller. Cam is worn and roller is super worn. I don't think it is even rolling anymore I will order a new roller and probably a new cam as well. Maybe of couple of each as I have several other loaders of the same vintage.

    Question is if I will pack these up and return to Gamaliels for a refund. 12 gauge has not been out of the package as was only ordered to get a $30 minimum order for free shipping.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  14. Zoom.Golly

    Zoom.Golly Well-Known Member

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    Well I loaded up 50 with the new roller. I still got a tiny hole in a few, but none that leaked #9s or needed waxing. That's a improvement. After 25 I added the new cam, raised the depth of the final crimp, and put a washer under the crimp starter to try and close that. That may have made a little change for the better.

    I could go up a powder bushing size but I doubt I be able to buy anymore Universal so I guess I'll be going to 20/28 if I can even find that. I'll wait until I see the results with my next powder for I make anymore tweeks.

    BTW - The new cam seems like it has more room to raise the crimp. That might help if I ever get thru my AA410CFs and start on the AA410HS hull. I might switch the new cam to the 410 loader.

    All-in-all - I think this new roller gives me a pretty good crimp.

    ty to trw.
     
  15. Bob_K

    Bob_K Well-Known Member

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    The hole in the WW HS hulls that you don't get with Remington has nothing to do with capacity, and everything to do with the length of the hull. The HS hulls are a tad shorter than your Remington.
     
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