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2nd Amendment

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by capvan, Jan 29, 2009.

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  1. capvan

    capvan Active Member

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    OK..this is not a trolling mission, but....

    Regarding the 2nd amendment, my thoughts have always been that the words "a well regulated militia" meant that the "people" should have arms to protect themselves from this militia, should the need arise. But I guess I'm wrong since everyone feels that the "well regulated militia" is the only group that should have arms.

    I know I'm not making myself clear on this....

    Please, no flames. If I'm totally wrong, just let it go.

    Bruce
     
  2. Jollytrapshooter

    Jollytrapshooter Member

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    Ah, but the 2nd Amendment continues- "...The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." There's been many arguments on if the founding fathers really meant for only the militia to keep arms. It's quite obvious to me that they meant the people of the United States. JMO, Josh.
     
  3. drh08

    drh08 TS Member

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    You aren't wrong. The problem is we analyze every word in a sentence and apply it to today. However the constitution wasn't written yesterday and we need to understand what the sentence meant according to the time it was written and apply it to today. Then we must apply the sentence and keep it in context with the rest of the document so we don't draw the wrong conclusion. Truth be told you can't prove exactly what they said because you could argue both sides of the fence if you wanted too.
     
  4. capvan

    capvan Active Member

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    Exactly. Just trying to think thru why they put the phrase "a well-regulated militia" in the sentence. They could have started with the "The right of the people..."
     
  5. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    IMO, a "well regulated militia" means a properly armed force of volunteers ready to defend the nation at a moment's notice. The "well regulated militia" would augment a regular standing army. Therefore, every member of "the people" has a constitutional right to possess firearms, especially the type of firearm that would be effective in defending the nation.

    Ed Ward
     
  6. capvan

    capvan Active Member

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    Thank you, Ed (school teacher)! You've given me a totally different way to look at this...

    Bruce
     
  7. drh08

    drh08 TS Member

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    Yup can argue with school teacher. The militia in those days were simply farmers with guns. Someone rides by on a horse and says we need you and off they go with what they had in the house as a weapon. I can certainly see why militia is mentioned as it was our first line of defense against invaders or what ever.
     
  8. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Well done Ed.....kept it simple...as it "should be"!!

    Curt
     
  9. HSLDS

    HSLDS Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps this will help.

    "That the people have a Right to keep and bear arms; that a well regulated Militia composed of the body of the people trained to arms is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state. That standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, and therefore ought to be avoided as far as the circumstances and protection of the Community will admit; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to and governed by the Civil power."

    From the original draft of the Bill of Rights to the U. S. Constitution, which consisted of twenty amendments, later condensed to the ten contained in the Bill of Rights. As reported by Joseph Alarid in Guns and Ammo, July, 1993


    You might note that the word "state" in the above is NOT in caps - the same as in the second Amendment. Taken in this context 'state' refers to a physical or social condition rather than one of the 50 States...

    David D
     
  10. H82MIS

    H82MIS TS Member

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    The way shit is going in the white house a militia doesn't seem to far fetched right now,,,,,,
     
  11. highflyer

    highflyer TS Member

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    It is not complicated. You can read other writings from the same people that wrote the Constitution and the meaning becomes very clear. They wanted individuals to have the right to defend themselves from an oppressive government. It takes lawyers and liberals to twist the original intent. The same thing they do with the first amendment. Truth is liberals don't like the constitution and the freedoms it grants. They don't trust freedom. Better to have government be all powerful than the people.
     
  12. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Will Obama's "Internal Security Force" constitute a standing armey?

    As if we don't have one already.

    School Teacher has the words right. And "shall not be infringed"leaves little doubt.

    GCA 1968 was an infringement. Background checks are an infringement. Outlawing 50BMG is an infringement.

    Camel's nose is under the tent and I would bet 90 percent of the guys on this forum just think things are normal.

    They will take the single barrel trap guns last.

    HM
     
  13. BT-100dc

    BT-100dc Active Member

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    The people were meant to have arms from the start, not go to the armory and get your gun there. Remember, Thomas Jefferson had dueling pistols amoung other guns. The intent is an "individual right" not a state right. Darrell
     
  14. jimrich60

    jimrich60 Member

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    Among other things, the 2nd Amendment is discussed at length in the Federalist Papers, a compilation of contemporary writers including Jefferson, Madison, and others. They make very clear they intended the bill of rights (including the 2nd Amendment) to be two things: One a statement of the rights of the people, and Two, a statement of what the Government was prohibited from doing. The Bill of Rights does not give you any rights, it does prohibit the Government from interfering with or restricting your existing, "inalienable" rights including the right to keep and bear arms.
     
  15. pendennis

    pendennis Well-Known Member

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    There is also a definition of "well regulated" which means "well equipped". The second definition in one of Webster's dictionaries states that regulate(d) means - "to bring order, method, or uniformity to".

    This would mean that well regulated would mean standardization as weapons, training, ammunition, etc.

    Militia, in the days of Colonial America, meant able-bodied men, usually aged from mid-teens (16 years), to late middle-aged (60, or so). This meant that groups like the "Minutemen" were the embodiment of the militia.

    There was also huge mistrust of government and standing armies. A lot of colonials were only a generation away from English armies forcing Pax Britannicus on Scotland and Ireland. And they were in no mood to trade one tyrant (Great Britain), for a close alliance with others (Spain, France).

    Best,
    Dennis
     
  16. drh08

    drh08 TS Member

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    jimrich60: slippery slope, we already restrict people from having guns. Convicted fellons aren't supposed to have weapons, so are we stepping on there 2nd ammendment rites???
     
  17. jwells

    jwells Member

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    the fisrt ten amendments or the bill of rites, pertains to individuals inalienable rights. not a group or a militia, case closed
     
  18. Savage99Stan

    Savage99Stan Active Member

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    Call or write to the NRA and ask for two publications: The Second Amendment Primer, and The Second Amendment Guide. Both contain many quotes and thoughts from the original authors of both the Constitution and the Bill of Rights....what they believed and, to a man, all felt that individuals should be armed...both for their own individual protection and for protection from an oppressive government.

    There is no doubt for any sane person who can read plain English (American English) that the intent was for the people to have guns, not to be permitted, but as a fundamental right and obligation.

    Now, how do we convince people who may not even be American of our rights?
     
  19. capvan

    capvan Active Member

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    Thanks JoeE1 and others. At least I know my thinking isn't totally "off".

    The next few years will be interesting, to say the least. I'm stocking up now....

    At least where I live there are NO gun laws, other than federal laws. Even with the 18 inches of snow on the ground today, I really love it here.
    Bruce
     
  20. Lead Man

    Lead Man TS Member

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    There are two versions of the text of the Second Amendment, each with slight capitalization and punctuation differences. The Second Amendment, as passed by the House and Senate, reads:[1]
    “ A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. ”

    The original and copies distributed to the states, and then ratified by them, had different capitalization and punctuation:[2]
    “ A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. ”

    Both versions are commonly used in official government publications. The original hand-written copy of the Bill of Rights, approved by the House and Senate, was prepared by scribe William Lambert and resides in the National Archives.


    This was taken from wikipedia.com. Notice the placement of the comma's. If not for the comma we would not have our guns.
     
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