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28 gauge hulls WAA or STS

Discussion in 'Want to Buy/Trade Threads' started by slyfox, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. slyfox

    slyfox TS Member

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    I am looking to buy some 28 gauge hulls I prefer WAA or STS. Only hulls in good shape. Offering $.10 each.
     
  2. David McMillen

    David McMillen Well-Known Member

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    I have some AA HS hulls, but I am selling them for $.15 each, plus freight. How many do you need?
     
  3. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Dave's price is going rate for AAHS 28s.

    The only once fired 28s you'll find for 10c or less are euro-trash, or multi-fired STS or AAs.
     
  4. gaengineer

    gaengineer Member

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    As skeet man said, the going rate is $0.15 per once fired hull. The analysis below is something to think about. The analysis is for Alliant 20/28 powder at $120.00 per 8 lbs, claybuster wads @ $9.20 per 500, $40.00 per bag shot, and primers @ $30.00 per 1000. Using 14 grains of powder and a ¾ oz load, each shells costs $0.1534 cents to reload which equates to $3.84 per box in components to reload neglecting the hull cost. At $0.15 cents per once fired hull, a box (25) hulls costs $3.75 to buy (not including any shipping). The first time you reload a box of shells when you bought once fired hulls you are in $7.58 (hull cost plus components). You have also lost one firing since someone else got the use of the factory loading. If you assume you can reload the hull 5 times after factory load discharged(conservative estimate, some more some less depending on charge etc.; also not a debate on times reloadable), you have $0.03 per time shot for the once fired hull purchased at $0.15. If you buy new shells at $9.00 per box by the flat, the difference between what the first reload of once fired hulls purchase separately and factory loads is $9.00-$7.58 = $1.42 per box or $0.0568 per hull. The cost of the hulls is the retail price – the cost of components to reload once = $9.00-3.84 = $5.16/25 = $0.2066 per hull. Assuming the same number of reloads (5), you get to fire the shell 6 times (factory plus 5 reloads) which comes out to $0.2066/6 = $0.0344 per time fired. This compared to the $0.03 per time fired if the once fired hulls are purchase at $0.15 each is hardly noticeable ($0.10 per box). Also, the $0.15 does not include any shipping and you do not get the benefit of shooting the original factory load. I personally like my reloads as much as a factory (different discussion). All this is said to say, buy factory shells, make your own hulls and you don’t have to worry if they were ever wet or how they were stored. I’m sure lots of people will want to discuss the minute details of this calculation which is why I included as much detail as to my inputs as I could. But at the end of the day, if it costs $0.50 per box over 5 boxes, it is $2.50 over the life of the hull. Most people haven’t put this much thought into it and definitely haven’t worked out the cost to realize that they are even at best by buying once fired hulls at $0.15 each. Just my $0.02.
     
  5. gaengineer

    gaengineer Member

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    Sportshot:

    Gamaliel has the current price at $9.20 per box. Of course shipping is extra. Prices at gun clubs are usually higher. Just for completeness, I input costs of $9.20, $10.00, $10.50, and $11.00 per box. Using the same method as described above, the results are:
    Box Hull Cost
    $9.20 $0.0363
    $10.00 $0.0417
    $10.50 $0.045
    $11.00 $0.048
    So, at $11.00 per box factory, the cost above buying at $.015 each per time fired is only $0.018 for each time fired ($0.45 per box). Sportshot, don't take this as me trying to "talk over" you or anyone else. I have wondered this and haven't taken the time to analyze it to this extent. I also find the results at $9.20 a box interesting to the point I will never buy once fired hulls for $0.15. When I have time, I am going figure the exact cost of retail once fired which equates to breaking even at $0.15 per hull. Will only take a second in my spreadsheet. Gotta run. Hope all finds this helpful.

    Marcus
     
  6. dux4all

    dux4all Member

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    I shoot 28 gauge Win HS almsot exclusively for skeet. I am getting close to 20 loads before a small pinhole burn or split develops. Have never had one separate or cause problems.

    I do have several thousand Win AAHS hulls available. $0.15/hull is the going rate pretty much uniformly. Wouldn't give half that for the STS...
     
  7. Shooting Jack

    Shooting Jack Active Member

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    Dux, you got that right about the STS hulls. I had a guy to give me some last weekend and I will use them for throwaways shortly. What powder do you use? I have been loading 20/28 until just recently and started using Green Dot as I had 24 pounds. It is the cleanest burning in the 28 that I have ever seen. Jackie B.
     
  8. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    "until just recently and started using Green Dot as I had 24 pounds" Hope you're using a barrel set or 28ga gun, and NOT subgauge tubes!
     
  9. David McMillen

    David McMillen Well-Known Member

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    What gaengineer failed to mention that Gamaliel charges a HAZMAT fee. Extra cost would be $20-to $25. If you live in the state that Gamaliel does business, sales tax would also be included.
     
  10. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    No hazmat for loaded ammo, and Gamaliel only charges sales tax in KY and TN.

    Brownells has Win AA 28s #9 and #7.5 for $9.99/box ($99.90/flat). For w/e reason, the #8s are a buck a box more.

    They have flat rate shipping of $15.95 (1 box or unlimited flats). Depending on what $ amt you order, you can almost always find coupons that will dramatically reduce, or eliminate shipping costs, or sometimes do even better than that.

    So worst case, right now, you can get a flat of Win AA #9 or #7.5, with full shipping and no coupon, delivered to your door, with no tax (unless you live in IA or I think IN), for $115.85.

    Use a coupon, or order more flats (to reduce the per-flat shipping cost) and it gets even cheaper.
     
  11. David McMillen

    David McMillen Well-Known Member

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    Ian, according to Gamaliel's web-site, they say they charge Hazmat fee(powder, primers, and ammo).
     
  12. grunt

    grunt TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    If thats true there must have been a change in the regs. Ive never had to pay hazmat for loaded ammo.maybe its the sellers choice.
     
  13. gaengineer

    gaengineer Member

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    First off, I am not telling anyone what their hulls are worth. I don't have anything that is worth a penny less than someone will pay me for it. Second, I'm not telling anyone what to do. Just for my own knowledge, I thought it would be interesting to know what the savings would be to purchase once fired hulls versus factory and making my own once fired hulls having the opportunity to also fire factory ammunition once. I also thought others may like to know the findings of said analysis. I also agree with dux that 5 times is a very low number for the actual times one can reload a AA hull. The fact that you can reload it more times furthers my point because the cost per reload each time goes down the more you can reload it. As far as the price for a box of AA28, Walmart has them all day for $10.50 a box(no hazmat fee which I am certain doesn't apply to loaded ammo). Just to satisfy myself that I had not missed something in the analysis, I used $10.50 and the hulls could be reloaded 20 times. The resulting cost per box for the hulls was $0.32 for the factory purchased and $0.19 for the once fired purchased hulls. If $0.13/box matters a great deal to you, buy once fired hulls @ $0.15 each, person to person, because the difference gets smaller if you pay shipping on the hulls. If you can buy them at Walmart and get the $2.00/box Winchester rebate, it goes to only $0.04/box difference. All my point was to let people who may not have thought deeper about it that buying factory ammo to make your own hulls is not as expensive as you would think. Hope some found this helpful, as it was helpful to me to go through the exercise. That said, I will be getting about 3,000 AA hulls in the winter and they will be sell for $0.15 each.
     
  14. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Not sure where you're seeing that on Gamaliel's website, but this is a copy/paste from their FAQ:

    Is there a hazardous materials fee on loaded ammo?

    No. Hazardous Materials fees apply to powder and primers only.
     
  15. gaengineer

    gaengineer Member

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    Sorry Sportshot, that is the hull cost per box. The more times you can reload it, the less it cost per time fired. For instance, $0.15 spread over 20 reloads is $0.0075 per time shot. 25 times that is nearly $0.19 per box. If you can only reload it 10 times, the cost is $0.015 per time shot and thus, $0.0375 per box. It makes more sense (to me)to talk about per box cost than each shell. Thanks for catching that.
    Believe me, I have no intent to affect the price of the once fired hull. I did this only to satisfy myself about the which way is the most cost effective. It is so close to a wash for me that I would prefer to buy factory, shoot them in competition and make my own hulls. However, I did think the findings were worth sharing.
    I tried to describe my inputs and methodologies so it would be easy to follow but as you noticed for me, leaving something out can really change the understanding of it. I hope no one takes offense to it as there is no ill intent. But as you see often on here, you could post the weather and have 20 people argue about it with you.
    And one more ENTER to make sure I have enough in there. Just a joke. It was a long post and it didn't occur to me. Good guidance for future post though.

    Marcus
     
  16. gaengineer

    gaengineer Member

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    I did break up the above post with spaces and it took them out when I posted I guess. Oh well.
     
  17. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    You guys give me a headache. LOL

    Buy a 1000 hulls, load the shells, and have a lot of fun. This is not a cheap sport.

    I gave my loaner Silver Pigeon II Twenty-Eight Sporter a shakedown cruise today on the subgauge course.

    It is a keeper.

    Another vote for Alliant's new 20/28. I load the Eurotrash with Unique or Universal Clays.
     
  18. dux4all

    dux4all Member

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    I load Unique in 20 and 28 gauge. Wonderful powder, and cheap. Hull life is very, very good.
     
  19. StansCustoms

    StansCustoms Well-Known Member

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    Wow...I'll have to try some Unique powder...

    With Longshot in a 28 gauge...I get 5 or six loads max before the pin holes and splits begin to appear... (in a combo barrel not a tube set not that it matters).

    If 20 reloads in a 28 gauge is average for Unique powder ..then "Unique" is a fitting name.

    Stan...