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27 yd. max. handicap change to 33 yd. max

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by 1oldtimer, Jun 30, 2010.

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  1. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    OK,Joe Topgun just won annother Handicap shoot from the 27 yd. max. He earned a 1 1/2 yd punch. But Joe ain't moving. Everybody else that earns yardage has to move back. Joes been winning on the 27 for 15 years now and has earned 62 yards. So the 33 yard max. is implimented. Are todays guns and shells good enough to consistently break targets at the new max? Would this bring back the 96 & 97 winning scores? Would the little shooter start playing the options now? Would this encourage sandbagging by the top shooters? Would the little guy have a better chance of winning now? Moving back for earned yardage is supposed to help equalize Handicap shooting. Is the 27 yd. line too easy for todays Top Shooters. Would the move to the 33 yard line be justified. After all,when rest win big,they gotta move back. Whats your view? Clyde Doll ^
     
  2. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    I don't think moving topguns back until they can't win is good for the sport. No doubt you move them back far enough and they will either start sandbagging to move up or quit shooting all together....kind of like what goes on right now with many ATA shooters. I don't understand why you would penalize someone to the point they can't win...again, kind of like what goes on right now with many ATA shooters.

    Mark Rounds
     
  3. JTEA

    JTEA Member

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    The physical dimensions of most clubs I know would require too many changes. The cost would be prohibitive. Would you move the trap houses forward or move the clubhouses back? It would mandate all clubs to change to work.

    I know some newer clubs have longer flight decks for weekday evening shoots and "fun shoots". Never going to happen in the ATA, especially with this economy and the aging population of shooters. That's why there are yardage groups for trophies and sometimes a 27 yard only trophy.

    John Thomas Spangler won the Friday K-80 and the Sunday Hcap championship at the PA State shoot firing from 20 yds.. (By the way, congratulations) There were four 97's for resident champion and he won the shoot off. The theory that 27 yd. shooters always win just doesn't hold.

    http://www.rjstuart.com/pages/trophies2010.htm

    JT
     
  4. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

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    BRIAN WHALEN a 27 yard shooter broke the high score in that 100 bird event with 99.
     
  5. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    According to RJ Stuart's website BRIAN WHALEN shot that score from the 26 not the 27.

    Bob Lawless
     
  6. motowheelguy

    motowheelguy TS Member

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    Sounds good to me, lets do it.


    Aaron Holguin
     
  7. Texshooter

    Texshooter Member

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    Isn't the idea of handicapping to move the best shooters back to where they no longer have an unfair advantage? (And don't bring up that they practice more!) And move non-competitive shooters up; to where any shooter on any day has an equal chance. AJ
     
  8. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    1oldtimer just wants to be able to use up all those Annie loads!
     
  9. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    Nothing unfair about being better than the next guy. I say keep the top dogs where they are so we have a goal that some can reach. Truth is even the top dogs get beat often by either an up and comer or some otehr good shooter. 27 is here to stay. Work to get yoruself there. Then revel in the rewards.
     
  10. J.Woolsey

    J.Woolsey Member

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    Well stated MIA.
     
  11. Mr. D

    Mr. D Member

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    Just so I'm clear, Joe Topgun has been winning on the 27 yrd line for 15 years.

    What is his avg score over those 15 years at the 27 yrd line?
     
  12. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Can anyone explain how a shooter can make the 33 yd. line and no longer win? How did he get there in the first place-good looks maybe!!
     
  13. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    JTEA

    "The physical dimensions of most clubs I know would require too many changes. The cost would be prohibitive."

    Let me see would those be the same club that have also bought Pat traps and voice releases???? Just curious but how did those clubs buy Pats and Voice releases.

    Bob Lawless
     
  14. rbmtrap

    rbmtrap Member

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    Instead of longer, increase the difficulty - back to the three hole solution... Very inexpensive to implement.

    Can't have it both ways, no matter what the activity - if it's easy so everybody can feel good about themselves, of course it will become easier to master, and more perfect scores will be posted.

    I'm new to the sport but am in the in the 'make it harder' camp. No one runs all the sporting clays, but that hasn't seemed to slow down its growth...
     
  15. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Move them back. Posted here many times ways it could be done w/o requiring every club to pour more concrete. Limit it to bigger shoots, make it hard to get punched beyond 27, and harder still to remain there. That will get your so called Pros back farther which is more fair than doing other things affecting everyone else.
     
  16. JTEA

    JTEA Member

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    Sorry, I thought the discussion was about winning trophies. I was referring to the State Championship, (resident) not the top dollar winner.
    "Spangler won the Friday K-80 and the Sunday Hcap championship at the PA State shoot firing from 20 yds.. There were four 97's for resident champion and he won the shoot off."

    regarding the costs:
    JTEA

    "The physical dimensions of most clubs I know would require too many changes. The cost would be prohibitive."

    Let me see would those be the same club that have also bought Pat traps and voice releases???? Just curious but how did those clubs buy Pats and Voice releases.

    Bob Lawless

    When those traps were added the costs went up around here. It also decreased the costs for trap help. How will putting in new driveways (33 yards places them on existing driveways or building porches) or moving trap houses save any costs? Check the declining numbers of shooters attending events as it is. Clubs who used to run all 12 traps all day long for their largest shoots are now running only 8. Clubs with 4 traps are sometimes lucky to have enough shooters to run an event.
     
  17. 1oldtimer

    1oldtimer TS Member

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    The 25 yd. line was the max. handicap yardage for years. They moved it to the 27 to help equalize the compitition. They said they did't have the room back then,guess what,they found it. Never say never on the next increase. In the last 8 Grand American Handicaps 5 were won from the 27. The preliminary handicap,2nd largest shoot,6 of the last 9 were won from the 27. The top 10 ATA handicap averages come to .97. Guess what,all 27 yarders. Most shooters would take that average for their 16 yd. average. How would moving shooters to their EARNED yardage be penalizing them? I thought that was the Handicap system. Of the top 50 ATA handicap averages, 1 is on the 22.5, 1 is on the 24.5. Guess where the other 48 shot from. Should long yardage shooters shoot from their EARNED yardage like every body else,or are they exempt to the rules.
     
  18. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    JTEA

    "Clubs who used to run all 12 traps all day long for their largest shoots are now running only 8."

    So would you have us believe that at a club that has 12 traps can't find two fields that could accommodate more concrete?????

    1oldtimer

    "Should long yardage shooters shoot from their EARNED yardage like every body else,or are they exempt to the rules."

    It seems to me that the long yardage shooters have been exempt to the earned yardage rules for 55 years. Where have you been??????

    Bob Lawless
     
  19. perazzitms

    perazzitms TS Member

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    Oh jeez. This crap again?

    Somebody will always be better than you. If you can't shoot a 96 or better, whatever yardage you're on, forget it. The days of winning a handicap with an 89 are long over. Get over it. If moving back 3 lousy feet destroys your average, figure you just got lucky to move back in the first place. Want to shoot with the big dogs? Get to the 27 - at least you won't have to worry about 'moving back' anymore.
     
  20. wolfram

    wolfram Well-Known Member

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    Even the big dogs don't run em from the 27 all the time. Granted they do consistently post higher HC score than most of us but that is what being a big dog is all about.

    My thoughts are along the same lines as what MIA and perazzitms had to say.
     
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