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27 yd help needed

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by inkspot, Dec 30, 2007.

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  1. inkspot

    inkspot TS Member

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    Need help from you 27 yd seasoned shooters. Hitting singles solidly, but when I shoot the 27 yd caps in the winter league I miss a considerable amount of targets, especially the straight aways and quartering targets. My squad mate next to me said I was shooting underneath on the missed targets. Should I hold a higher gun, lower gun or add spacers to comb. I currently hold on the front lip of the traphouse and I'm a 2 eyed shooter. Thanks!

    wjw
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    wjw, I wouldn't put much stock in what your squadmates say if I were you.

    Lock the trap, move so you are shooting something like a straightaway, and try shooting at it , over it, under it. If you get good breaks shooting over it, add a couple of spacers and retest. If it works from a locked trap better now, shoot it for a month like that. Keep it on for singles too for that period why don't you. You never know what's going to work until you try it over an extended period.

    Neil
     
  3. jbmOU

    jbmOU Member

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    My handicap yardage is only 23 right now, but for a while, I was having a problem similar to yours. I was doing great in singles, but when I shot handicap from any distance I was missing my quarter angles. My problem was that I was leading the targets like I do in singles and shooting behind them. That could be your problem also. Try what Neil said and you'll figure it out.
     
  4. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

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    Key word "winter league". You probalbly have adjusted your LOP by wearing heavy clothing. You also don't turn to the target as well with all that clothing. Try going to a thinner recoil pad and look for less bulky clothing.

    Good Luck and wait for spring.

    Don
     
  5. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I will sometimes do something similar to Neil's suggestion. I will stand on post three (from the 27) and shoot a box and do the best I can to shoot over the birds as they oscillate. I have always found that when I do try to shoot over them, I hit them fairly well. My problem is not where my gun shoots, it is where I shoot my gun.

    Also, wjw, I would not make any big changes based on how you are shooting in the Winter wrapped up in heavy cloths. These can restrict body movements.

    Pat Ireland
     
  6. Inkspot Kelly's Great-Nephew

    Inkspot Kelly's Great-Nephew TS Member

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    Hold a little higher gun to start. (I hate giving advice that might help wjw get an extra target or two on me!!!) HEE! HEE!

    Your ole buddy,

    Dave Sr.
     
  7. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    In Montana during the winter months, we find that the long handicap targets take more swing and more shot and more powder than they do when it's nice. That being said, hold lower on the house to give the gun more movement and or more speed, swing thru the target faster, further than normal and stay in the gun harder, better than you do normally. Or like all the rest of the Montanan's do. Don't shoot til it's nice.

    Disclaimer...this info is only good if you shoot the same way as me.

    Shoot well and have fun.........Rickyd

    Happy New Year to all.
     
  8. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    wjw,

    I gather that your regular yardage is not 27. When you change from 16 yards to 27 yards the perception of the target and gun relationship to the target changes. The target appears to move slower and with less apparent angle. Many shooters have difficulty keeping the gun moving before, during and after the shot.

    You can get away with a lot of poor shooting techniqes at 16's and still break a decent score ... 27 yards makes those same poor techniques turn into lost targets. I would suggest three things which may help you from the back fence.

    1. Keep your eyes still when you call for the bird. If you go into a jerky, searching eye movement as you call for the bird you won't be able to reference the bird to the gun smoothly. Nice soft focus and still eyes are the rule.

    2. Wait until you see the target above the gun before you move the gun. This sounds simple, but you would be amazed how many shooters anticipate the target. Voice release systems (yes, I know I sell them...) promote a dependency on the timing of the target. This will work most of the time. The key word here is "most". Just like all things mechanical or electrical there will be some variation, so if you move the gun on your call rather than when you actually see the target you are dependent on the machine, its a BAD bet and you will miss targets because of it.

    3. SWING the gun through the target an follow through! With he perception of the slower (it's not) target many shooters kind of stab the gun at a place that looks like enough forward allowance to break the target. This tends to promote a slow gun or even a stopped gun, it's death in shotgun shooting. Gun speed through the target is critical. Dan Bonillas has the best move through the target I've ever seen, if you get the chance watch him! Of course Leo, Ricky and Harlan ain't too shabby either.

    Hope this helps a bit. Keep working on your technique and fundamentals. All the above shooters give excellent clinics, and they are free to observe when they shoot.

    Happy New Year,

    Bob Schultz
     
  9. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Ditto Bob Schultz:

    Make SURE YOU FOLLOW THUOGH the target.

    Be nice to know how fast you shoot too.

    WW
     
  10. ric3677

    ric3677 Well-Known Member

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    Jack pictures....come on Jack......LOL

    Rickyd
     
  11. kallen

    kallen TS Member

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    MIA that sounds like point and shoot to me. There are people that can do this but not average Joe like me. Try that in sporting clays
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Proper gun swing is keeping the gun moving until the recoil of the gun has raised the barrel and bounced your head off the stock. Then you can stop.

    A problem with some is that they move the gun to the target, stop the gun and then shoot.

    I will always listen carefully to advice given by Bob Schultz. He is not now at the level of Leo, Phil or Kay but he is a very solid AAA27AAA who earns many more All American points than I earn. The very top trap shooters know Bob and they also pay attention to what he says.

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. Bob Schultz

    Bob Schultz Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    MIA,

    OK, I was trying to help a shooter who was having trouble on the 27 yard line. I'd bet serious money he was not developing enough gun speed to catch the targets or get enough lead to break them. The only way I know to get shooters to generate that necessary speed is to ask them to follow through. You are correct that Leo, Harlan, etc.... are not swinging the gun into space with a follow through motion. Howeveer, they do generate very high rate of barrel speed which gives them the necessary forward allowance to break 'caps or doubles.

    I don't have any exagerated follow through either, but when I feel my gun speed needs some tuning I do make a bigger swing in practice. It's just a lot easier to explain follow through to a shooter than barrel speed. If your barrel is not moving faster than the target you are toast. Oh, you might break some targets, but not high 90's long yardage scores. If you can't break at least 97 or better these days you won't get a sniff of the money!

    Bob
     
  14. country gentleman

    country gentleman Member

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    Ditto to Neil and Bob S.
    Alternative to bbl speed is to add washers, raise hold points. However this will kill your bbl speed and make you a spot shooter. There are two types of shooters in this sport. 1.The high gun dead gun shooter. 2.The low gun fast gun shooter. #2shoots a flat gun. #1 shoots a high gun. You must figure out which style works best for you and practice it to some degree of perfection. Read Neil and Bob again before you do anything drastic. See a reputable fitter and then see a good coach. You will learn more from them in 1 day than you will figure out on your own in a year. Yours in Shooting ,Todd Nelson
     
  15. romie

    romie Active Member

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    I think 90% of the game is based on barrel speed which creats lead which is why you start with a lower barrel on Handicaps.You might think you stopped the barrel but it moved after you pull the trigger.

    Non expert
    Monty
     
  16. inkspot

    inkspot TS Member

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    Hi to all, and yes MIA, I am still here taking it all in AND thanks for all the good responses. I am a 25 yd ATA shooter, but in the winter leagues and some practice I shoot 26 and 27 yds. It seems this season (I will admit) I have been doing some tweaking with different ribs on the gun, etc. It seems like my angle hndcp birds I am breaking fairly consistently, it is the damn straightaways that I miss time and time again. Like my original post said, I hold out at the front lip of the house. Now, I have noticed that sometimes if I come up on the bird and blot it out, I break it hard. This might confirm what my squad mate next to me said that when I missed, I was under the bird. So, if I don't wish to add more spacers under the comb BUT want to make the gun shoot a little higher, do I hold even lower on the trap house or do I hold a higher gun? I shoot a release FWIW. The gun patterns at 35 yd 85/15 to 90/10. Thanks and Happy New Year!

    wjw
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    "My squad mate next to me said I was shooting underneath on the missed targets."

    If your buddy is one that can see the shot cloud pass under the target when you shoot from longer distances, changing hold points won't help you much. Raise the comb 1/4 inch and go from there. There's a time difference in how long it takes the shot charge to get to that longer target. Minute as it may be, it does make a difference which is what your experiencing.

    Shooting clay games from extreme distances requires even more built in vertical lead also. Hap
     
  18. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    hello:
    i also had lessons from jack gracey, great guy, great shooter. he told me when you take a clinic, if you can learn atleast one thing from it, your lucky. he told me when he shot 27 yard handicap, get the tightest choke you can find. he also said it's tough enough shooting 27 yd handicap in the summer, if you are shooting in cold weather climate, forget it. wait till warm weather, shooting 27 yd handicap this time of year is very very tough. (go back to basics!)
    steve balistreri
     
  19. whiz white

    whiz white Strong Supporter of Trapshooting Banned

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    Here a self-taught lesson for shooting in the winter from the 27: You can pick up some bad habits. (1) Shooting with a cold weather coat will change things, (2) Lighting during the day with the sun in the deep south makes them harder to see, and (3) Shooting under lights is different. The lesson is not to beat yourself up with different scores. Absolve yourself of the winter routine when warm weather comes again.

    When summer arrives just tell yourself, "OK, now let's have some fun and let the REAL shooting being." Has worked for me to stay on 27 since 1975.

    I've had several lessons from Britt Robinson, Kiner, and have shot with Stafford many times. Britt is in my estimation one of the best that has ever shot the game. Watching him shot doubles was a real treat.

    There is always something one can pick up in a clinic. Watch them shoot. Very little vertical gun movement and minimal left and right. They, we, all shoot damn fast. Just the fact that you are practicing is more important. I don't shoot a very tight choke either. I don't subscribe to the "Choke for Smoke," although it does sound reasonable.

    WW
     
  20. mercedesman1981

    mercedesman1981 TS Member

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    My question is, what are the most important fundamentals we D shooters should be focusing on?

    In the world of bullseye pistol, it is all about trigger control - moving the trigger without moving the sights.

    Is there an equivalent in trapshooting, ie, a most important fundamental? I have learned it is necessary to keep your head on the stock and to follow through, to keep the gun moving as the shot is taken, to move at the hips and not the arms, soft focus and don't move the gun until you see the target. From experience, I know we will go through all these phases as we experience level increases, but is there a "most important"?

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
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