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27 Yard line produces less angles?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Rick Barker, Sep 9, 2009.

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  1. Rick Barker

    Rick Barker Well-Known Member

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    I did not want to hijack another thread on this subject, but another posting had a thread where it was said the shooting from the 27 produces less angle shooting due the the longer distance. I thought I noticed the same thing from the 27, but I also noticed the timing in making the shot changed. If this observation is true, then maybe the answer to the beefs we have been hearing about our handicap system is to start everybody on the 27 and when they win an event, move them up a yard.
     
  2. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Depends on which angle you're measurung?
     
  3. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    No difference between 16 and 27.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  4. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    The stationary geometry is the same. From Post 5 with a 3-hole, hard right angle, the target is launched at a 45 deg angle. It doesn't matter whether 16 or 27, the angle of launch is the same.

    However, since both targets are broken the same distance from the house (27 maybe a yard or two sooner), the angle the shot intersects the target is greater from the 27 yard line. So there is slightly less room for error on that score. Anyway you slice it, shooting from the 27 is tougher than any closer yardage.
     
  5. RickN

    RickN Well-Known Member

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    Angles might be a bit different.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    AS stated above, the angle of the target is the same at both yardages. The difference is that due to the added distance, the gun movement is reduced. Picture the target being shot at 100 yards, moving the barrel an inch would be covering a lot of distance at the target. This does not make 27 easier.
     
  7. Ed Y

    Ed Y TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Same angle, less, more precise, gun movement.

    Ed Yanchok
     
  8. GCTC

    GCTC TS Member

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    Please look at the diagram. The 27 yarder, breaking the bird in the same location as a shorter yardage shooter has a greater angle.

    Yes the bird is launched at the same angel FROM THE TRAP. But, it is NOT the same angle.

    Jerry Hauser, look at the diagram. Your analysis is usually spot on. If you feel like it give me a call at home tonight. Rod
     
  9. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    What does the angle of the walkway have to do with it? That's what the 45 degrees is based on, it seems to me.

    Sometimes when I do this I get 28 degrees (or maybe 24, I'm not sure) as the max angle from the 27, but sometimes I get just the 17 degrees I am getting today. With more thought, thought, I expect 28/24 degrees to jump out at me, but for the present I'm going to say they are the same, and 17 degrees

    Neil
     
  10. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Draw a hypothetical line between the post 1 walkway from the 27 yard line to the trap house, then draw another line from the center of the trap house that represents the target flight of a hard left angle target.


    The launch angle remains unchanged all along the line from the trap house to the 27 yard line.


    Does the 27 yard shooter have to move the gun as far as the shooter on the 16 yard line in order to break the target???


    No. Assuming if they are using the same initial hold points and they are breaking the target the same distance from the house.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  11. gdbabin

    gdbabin TS Member

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    Looks like we need a Pat Ireland geometry lesson.


    Guy Babin
     
  12. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Come on guys - the angle of the target does not change. The angle between the centerline of the post and where you are pointing to break the target changes (thus the reduced gun movement) but the target is still flying at the same angle to the centerline of the post.
     
  13. GCTC

    GCTC TS Member

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    Jerry,
    The launch angel RELATIVE to the launcher is the same. The angle that the shoot sees IS different. The angle RELATIVE to the shooter (which is what the shooter sees), is different. Use ZZT's diagram, the heavy lines from the shooter to the target determines the angle that the shooter deals with to break the target. That angle, by inspection is different. Those are the heavy lines from the target to the shooter.
     
  14. V10

    V10 Well-Known Member

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    The really funny thing about this is that the angle referred to in the original post (and in the thread he didn't want to hijack) is the angle relative to the ground, the vertical angle that the gun moves through. Not the angle that you have to swing horizontally.
     
  15. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    On a left hander;
    For the shooters standing on the stations, the only time the angles are the same, is when the bird is still in the trap (considering same break points). After launch, the shooters station angles, in relation to the bird, and the target intercept angles, are constantly changing (and not the same), given the same target breaking point. After launch, the only way for the shooters angle, or intercept angle, to be the same, is for the 27 shooter to break the target a greater distance from the trap.

    At any point, if you take the SUM of the two angles, those of the 16 shooter, and those of the 27 shooter, they are the same, but their corresponding angles are different.

    Thank you,
    Longshooter
     
  16. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    This is confused since everyone is taling about different things.Truly, the target is launced at the same angle in relation to the shooter. Prove it - someone stands on the house and points right arm at you on Post 3 16 yards and his left arm 90 degrees to you. That is the angle the bird is flying in relation to your position (if we threw 90 degree targets). Now move back to the 27 and have the guy keep the same 90 degree angle to you. What happens - absolutely nothing, the angle remains exactly the same.

    Now, if you want to talk about something different than the angle the target is launced at, you can discuss how many degrees of gun movement are required. This will decrease as distance increases. It also varies from shooter to shooter due to timing. Two different things.
     
  17. GCTC

    GCTC TS Member

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    Guys, The question we are interested in is what angle does the shooter have to evaluate when he/she pulls the trigger. That is certainly a function of where he breaks the target.

    But, we said that both the shorter yardage shooter and the 27 yarder were breaking the bird at the same spot. The angle that their respective shot charges hit the bird relative to the flight path of the bird are different. The 27 yarder shot charge hits the bird at a greater relative angle.

    To the extreme. If a shooter was standing over the pivot point of the launcher, the shooter would shoot every target as a straight away. The close you are to the trap house the smaller the angle you have to deal with.
     
  18. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    Which angle are we talking about? The angle formed at the shooter's position, or the angle produced at the target break point?

    The OP suggests angle "from the 27", which might indicate the shooter's position.

    If shooters position angle, that angle INCREASES the closer one is to the trap.

    To take this a step further, from the 27, I would say the shooter's angle is less, and the LEAD at the bird is greater.

    Thank you,
    Longshooter
     
  19. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    Come on now, since we move back at an angle from the 16 yd line the angle to the target has to change. The only angle that matters is the one the shooter has to deal with to hit the bird, why complicate it? Next thing someone will say it's easier to hit them from the 27. LOL
     
  20. fishguts

    fishguts Member

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    .......it's easier to hit them from the 27. (at least, that's what I've heard people say). Strange that they are always watching, and not shooting.

    WAYNE
     
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