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258 condor rifle?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by kgp912kgp, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. kgp912kgp

    kgp912kgp Active Member

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    Anyone out there ever heard of a 258 Condor? I know that the case is a 375 necked down to .25, but I am not sure if it is an H&H or other 375 case. This is a custom rifle. I am looking for info but can not find much and the seller states that not many (100-) were produced. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. jhoward

    jhoward Member

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    Maybe the item linked above would help.

    Please note, this is not my item, it just turned up in my google search and I thought it might help.
     
  3. DB Bill

    DB Bill Active Member

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    With wildcat cartridges, especially older ones, there were frequently small changes made when reamer's were ground so you need to be careful. The only way to know is to have the owner get a chamber cast made - any gunsmith can do it for you or you can do it yourself. Another thing to consider is if it doesn't come with a full set of reloading dies and you don't have a fired case it will be expensive to have a set of custom dies made.
     
  4. kgp912kgp

    kgp912kgp Active Member

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    DB,

    Thanks, the rifle was fired last month and deemed "accurate as HELL" at 275 yards (3 shots: 2 were .75 from eachother and the last was 1.25" from from the fartherest shot)from a table with one sand bag under the barrel. These were hand loads assembled by the owner and he has 250pcs brass (50 which are fresh loads) which were provided to him along with the dies and recipes that the original owner was provided when he purchased the rifle in the mid 70's NEW.
     
  5. DB Bill

    DB Bill Active Member

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    If what you're trying to find out is if it's based on a full size .375 H&H case there's an easy way to do it - look at the base of one of his loaded rounds - it will say .375 H&H.

    But you should know that almost all the modern belted cases are based on the .375 H&H case - you can make ,458 Win Mag .338 Win Mag the 7mm RemMag etc.

    If you aren't an experienced handloader (rifle)I suggest you really think about purchasing something like this - there are more than a few fast 25-cal rounds available with ammo available --- and I would strongly suggest you or someone you trust observe the rifle being shot thru a chronograph to check the velocity it can reach --- and then look at the case head for signs of excessive pressure.

    Last piece of advice - have someone with a bore-scope look down barrel for wear. Shooting high-velocity loads can fry a barrel very auickly.
     
  6. DB Bill

    DB Bill Active Member

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    A Google search will provide more information for you - try both .258 Condor and ,257 Condor -- same cartridge.

    The rifles typically had a 1-7 rate-of-twist and were based on the .300 Ackley which was based on the ,375 H&H shortened and necked down to .30-cal/

    It was made specifically for extreme long-range shooting and the only loads I found used 160gr bullets which really require a long-throated chamber and excellent reloading skills.

    One thing to think about is that bullets of this length will take a little time to stabilize after they leave the muzzle and if it were to hit anything before it stabilized the bullet would tumble on impact with variable results.
     
  7. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    My encyclopedia of cartridges does not list a 258 Condor. But it does list a 257 Condor. Dimensions for the 257 Condor are below.

    The 257 Condor is made from 300 Win Mag cases. Instructions are to use a 7x61 Sharpe & Hart case, the form the S&H case in a Condor form die. Trim, chamfer and F/L size.

    Case length: 2.400<br>
    Head diameter above belt: .413<br>
    Rim dia: .532<br>
    Neck dia: .288<br>
    Neck length: .300<br>
    Shoulder length: .120<br>
    Body angle: .997 degrees<br>
    Case capacity in CC's: 4.97<br>
    Case capacity in grains water: 72.11<br>
    Loaded length: 3.30<br>
    Belt dia: .532<br>
    Rim thickness: .05<br>
    Shoulder dia: .451<br>
    Length to shoulder: 1.98<br>
    Shoulder angle: 34.18 degrees<br>
    Primer: Large rifle magnum<br>

    Keep in mind that this is a wildcat, and while the 257 Condor might be the same as the 258 Condor, there is no guarantee of this. In fact, there is no guarantee that any two 258 Condor rifles might have the same chambering.
     
  8. kgp912kgp

    kgp912kgp Active Member

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    Yes this is just the info that I need before taking this project on... I hope to get it at a very good price and hope that I can find more history on the rifle once I have more info then I can decide on what bullet to go with and powder. The more I learn the better I will feel about making loads for it. All in all it does have a place in my collection and will not do anything without facts from the MFG's (powder) suggested loads.
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The same reference book I cited above ("The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions' by john donnelly) has a basic load:

    Bullet: 160 gr (only specifies a hollow point, no other info)
    Powder: 4831
    Powder grains: 56.0
    Velocity: 2730
    Source: PO Ackley, Vol 1, page 352

    The velocity seems awfully low to me for such a large boiler room. That's 500 fps lower than a .257 Weatherby shooting a bullet that's only 40 grains less. On the other hand, the longer bullet has more bearing surface and in theory more friction. And when the PO Ackley book was written there was not the variety of very slow powders available today.

    Another notation says this cartridge was developed by Dr. R. Somovia for long and heavy bullets.
     
  10. kgp912kgp

    kgp912kgp Active Member

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    Thanks Brian.
    That too is a bit slower than what I anticipated. But may be the load he has as well. The round he showed me on his desk is a hollow point so maybe the 2 are the same load.


    I am checking with the seller this weekend to see what exact loads were provided to him and what other docs he may have.
     
  11. DB Bill

    DB Bill Active Member

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    Just think how far a .25-cal 160gr bullet will stick out of the case - can't imagine it working thru a magazine - almost has to be a single shot.

    With ultra long-range shooting it isn't the initial velocity that you worry about - it's how fast it loses velocity and a bullet that long will lose velocity very slowly.
     
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