1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

24 Yard Blues.. Help

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Frye, Mar 31, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Frye

    Frye TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Messages:
    158
    Hello shooters.
    I've picked up on a few things that I think is effecting my 24 yard game.
    From the 16 yard line, back to the 20 yard line or there about, I am consistantly breaking 23's and even getting some straights.
    From 24 and back, well.....
    I'm shooting a Browning XT, 32" non adjustable. I have patterned it and I know where the shot goes at 40 yards. I've tried 8 shot and 7.5 shot. I only load 1 and 1/8th ounce 3 dram equiv. So I know I've got a good load for handicap shooting, I've tried different chokes, different hold points, Higher and lower, different stance.. I'm stumped. I can't get past a 20/25
    I'm having trouble getting a consistant sight picture and I think that is effecting my ability to judge the lead on the target.
    For singles, I float the target and put the bead on the front of the target before I squeeze off the round. Target smoked everytime. I've practiced this sight picture so I could be more consistant from longer yardage but I'm simply not getting a proper sight picture and I hesitate to pull the trigger. Resulting in a lot of lost targets. I do shoot with both eyes open and I see the target well, get on it smoothly, I don't have a flinch and I am following thru on my swing and my head is down on the stock all the time, I know this because I have forced myself over the last few months to not pull the gun away, I follow the lost bird, or a piece of the broken target for a few seconds after I touch off a round to make sure I don't catch myself putting my cheek back onto the gun. I don't know what else to try, other than putting the XT away for a few months and trying again with a fresh attitude! Missing all the time sure isn't much fun.
    I'm fairly new to this sport and I have progressed quite well, Until Now.
    Anyone willing to offer up a suggestion? I'd sure appreciate it.

    Thanks!
    Frye.
     
  2. Hauser

    Hauser Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    860
    Frye.


    1) I would not change anything from the way your shooting singles, at least not right away. Watch how each target breaks. This will give you some idea where you're actually pointing your gun.


    2) I would keep a post by post log when you practice. The log will help you understand where your missing targets. If your missing them on 1 and 5 a change on where you hold your gun maybe all thats necessary.


    3) When you do decide to may a change stick with your decision/change long enough to see if its effective. Too many shooters make changes, shoot one round, and if they don't get the results they expect they make another change.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  3. berettagold53954

    berettagold53954 TS Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    475
    i use to have this problem on any handicap shoot good 16s with 70/30 poi switched to 100 plus last yr about 18in high and moved from 20-25 last yr
     
  4. Frye

    Frye TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Messages:
    158
    Thanks Berettagold, The XT is a fine shooter and All the trap gun I'm going to be able to afford. I don't think a higher shooting gun is going to help me get into more consistancy at the handicap yardage. Something tell me, it's not the XT. It's the bonehead holding it.
    Is is a perfect excuse to get another gun though.... just not financially possible. I would LOVE to have a Perazzi or Kriegoff in the collection.

    Thanks Jerry, I have been keeping a mental log of my trials, this is something I've been fighting for about 3 months now. I'm making my changes gradually in small increments and I've notice no patters of consistency. I'll miss from just about anywhere on any angle. Sometimes I'll run 15 straight, and get to the last ten birds and miss every one of them. Other times it's one miss on each station or more. I'm not having trouble with one specific shot, I'm missing them ALL!!

    I break my targets hard, lots of little chucks flying everywhere and Smoke balls with 8 shot. When I do chunk a target, it is almost always a larger chunk going almost straigt down to the ground, meaning in my interpretatin that I'm a little on top of the target. I compensate when I see this by floating it just a tich higher and I'm back into solid breaks again. When I do hit one from the 24 yard line, there is no question about it, solid breaks, no large chunks but I don't see the puffs of clay dust that I do at closer yardage. I don't expect to really. I'm looking for solid hits and I get them when I'm on the target. Same for a miss. No question about it. BANG!!! and it just keeps on flying. I'm thinking that the main problem I'm having is my sight picture. To be honest, I don't know what I'm looking for in the bead/target relationship.
     
  5. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,358
    Location:
    Nashville Tn
    I am wondering if the gun needs to shoot higher? If you put a stick on comb on your gun and make it shoot higher, it will not hurt your 16 yd scores. Getting a good adj comb installed on your gun is not a bad idea either.

    If you have to put the bead on the bird at the 16, you need to raise your POI for caps.

    My backup gun is devastating on the 16, but falls apart on the 25. It simply does not shoot high enough. Since it does so well on Intl' Skeet and Bunker, I will not do anything to it.
     
  6. berettagold53954

    berettagold53954 TS Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    475
    another thing i figured out was forget the beads there when i start watching that i miss
     
  7. Frye

    Frye TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2008
    Messages:
    158
    Hello Shooting Coach.
    I've patterned this XT with several different loads and chokes and I'd call it a 70/30 with the bottom barrel a little higher than the top. It shoots straight. I shoot Mod choke for singles and the first shot of doubles.
    IM for the 20 yard line and full from there back. I like to use 7.5 shot beyond 20 yards. I don't have a preference for singles. My gun is incredible to shoot in singles and double from the 16 yard line with either 7.5 or 8 shot.
    Even though I see better patters with 8 shot beyond the 20 yard line. I still shoot 7.5. I see better breaks in the targets. I can't explain why..
    The wood on my XT is so darn pretty I just can't bring myself to alter the comb. I would like to change to an adjustable pad to bring the gun up just a little bit. It comes up straight and I don't have to cant the gun to get my mid bead stacked, but I want to get more lead down the barrel befor I make that change. Can I get the gun to shoot higher by changing to an adjustable pad rather than cutting my stock?

    Frye
     
  8. berettagold53954

    berettagold53954 TS Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    475
    you have to get cheek up higher see a little rib between the beads i guarantee you an adj comb is way to go your pretty wood will still look good and it will pry be easier to sell when you want to move up to the k gun besides when it comes to breaking targets would you rather miss with a pretty gun or break em all in this case with an even better pretty gun i went through this after i finally got gun with adj comb ill never shoot another without things change lose/gain weight its nice to have the adjustment
     
  9. Twixter

    Twixter Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    313
    Frye: I'd say that you are thinking to much (line up beads, shoot under bird just so much, etc) there was a fellow here in wis that when asked what he thought about when mounting the gun. His reply was nothing, nothing, nothing. His name was Vic Rienders. You or some of your shooting friends may remember him. Pretty good shot.

    Watch the bird, if your gun fits you, you will automatically go to the bird and break it if you follow through as you say you do.

    Just my 2 cents worth

    Thanks Mick
     
  10. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    8,358
    Location:
    Nashville Tn
    You can get a stick on pad that will not damage your stock if/when you remove it. 1/8" will raise your POI at the target around 4". If your gun shoots 70/30, this will take it to 80/20. This will put most of your shot above the front bead, but leave a little under it, so if you over swing just a little on the target, you will still hit it.

    A lot of folks do well with 100% high POI, but for myself, I have been hitting the gym pretty hard and my gun feels like a broomstick. I am blowing through the target, and I like a little shot under the front bead. I already have two weights in the 34" Unsingle barrel and one in the stock of my K-80. Every one that picks it up says it is "a truck axle". However, it feels like a twenty-eight gauge field gun to me, and is exceptionally well balanced when on the shoulder.

    Brownell's sells these pads. They are cheap to try, and will not damage your finish.

    You might find a good shooter with sharp eyes and let him stand immediately behind you while you shoot your tightest choke. He should be able to see your shot string. You need to know if you are shooting under the straightaway, behind the angles etc. If you are behind the angles, your gun may be a little sluggish. If you are under them, then your POI is off. If you are blowing through the straightaway (over) and the angles (in front), you might hold the gun a little closer to the breech. This will decrease your leverage and slow down the gun. Unless you are STRONG, you probably do not have this problem. However, if you are holding the gun at the back of the forend, you may be creating a problem.

    If your 32" gun feels sluggish, you might move your support hand a little closer to the muzzle on the forend. This will increase the amount of hand movement you have to make, but will reduce the effort and allow you a little more precise swing and point. This is something you might try. It does not take much, maybe 1/2" at a time until you either connect or start blowing through the target.

    Increasing your upper body and arm strength will make the gun light in your hands at the end of a long day.

    I have seen folks take the Dr Scholl's shoe inserts and tape them to the stock to see how the gun shoots. These are only a few bucks. If you don't mind looking like a Skeet shooter for a day or two at the range, this might be something you can try.

    If you have put weights in the stock, you may have a balance problem. I like a chamber type recoil reducer. I have one in the dummy chamber of my Unsingle, and a 6 oz weight in front of that. When the gun is mounted, the weight is pretty much between the hands, and makes the gun feel well balanced.

    Try some of these suggestions if you think they may help. The Browning XT is a great tournament gun for anywhere near the price, and will give you excellent service, once you get it to suit you.
     
  11. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Frye- Some very good advice on this thread. In your first post you mentioned several things that you have changed without success and that you have been stuck for three months. My suggestion is that you have tried too many changes and not given any of them time to work or not work. I would only change one thing at a time and then shoot a lot of targets before figuring out if the change helped. Do not look for instant gratification. Also, you have been trying things in late Winter. It is cool, light is not good and this is a poor time to evaluate something new.

    Don't make the game too complicated. If you keep your head on the gun and see the target clearly 95% of your problems are solved. The remaining 5% will take a little time to figure out and correct. Try to correct one problem at a time, not all problems at one time.

    Pat Ireland
     
  12. Hauxfan

    Hauxfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,091
    Frye, all good advice, but......when you say you follow the bird and hesitate before shooting it, it sounds to me like you have a little flinch going on.

    Try this for a round or two. Shoot the bird as fast as you can, you might be surprised at the results.

    Good luck!

    Hauxfan!
     
  13. makalii600323

    makalii600323 TS Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    29
    Perhaps u r bead checking?....
     
  14. dshot

    dshot Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    457
    Sound advise, from Pat
     
  15. DTrykow

    DTrykow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,543
    Most shooters, I shoot with, think their misses are over not under. So the higher POI theroy doesn't make sense. Of course without a slow mo camera it's very hard to tell. Maybe were swinging by them. I don't know. I find I need to take more time, when shooting Caps, so I can read and lock on the bird. Also were shooting under the lights which creates another batch of challanges. Dave T.
     
  16. Phil Kiner

    Phil Kiner Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,211
    Frye-If you want to look good leave the gun alone- if you want to shoot good get the comb cut and make it shoot higher. The choice is simple - look good or shoot good

    D Try with all due respect- most targets are missed under- but having said that it is not due to POI but other mistakes--pk
     
  17. JBrooks

    JBrooks TS Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,707
    Greetings Frye


    Please answer these questions:

    If you shoot 23s from the 16, why do you think you should shoot better than 20s from the 24?

    Why are you shooting from the 24?

    Do you flinch?

    Get Phil Kiner's DVD. He is right. Your gun is too flat to float anything at yardage. You may also be crossfiring. It is the best way to miss 10 straight.
     
  18. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,201
    Location:
    West Clarksville, NY
    Frye, you have mail..
     
  19. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,442
    You have to find out what the problem is before you can fix it. Take your gun to station 3 with the trap machine locked on straight aways. us your 16 yard set up (mod choke). Shoot a couple shots, if you smoke them move back to the 17 yard line and repeat. Keep moving back as long as the hts are good. You can use mole skin strips to raise the height of the comb as you move back. Do what ever it takes to keep the hits cantered until you get to the 24. HMB
     
  20. Shilo

    Shilo TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    40
    hey breattagold how and where did you learn to shoot who was your teacher have you won a lot what was your biggest win and who thought you how to shoot did you take lessons if so from who and where do you shoot a lot what kind of gun you have and where you from i would like to meet up with you maybe you give me a few lessons i also need help so where are you at sounds like you know your stuff i want to be that good just as you are how much you charge for lessons ? ok thanks let me know i got the car running thanks,,,
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.