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223 remington penatration

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by pfofml, Dec 2, 2011.

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  1. pfofml

    pfofml Member

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    Question regarding the pentration of the 223 Rem. I shot a coyote with a 223 at 220 yards. The bullet entered the animal's eye but did not exit its body, nor did it kill the critter out right. I was using a 55 gr FMJ bullet @ 3200 fps. Is this result consistant with the 223 Rem?
    Thank you.
    Peter
     
  2. 4EVRYOUNG

    4EVRYOUNG Member

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    Sounds like a bullet choice problem rather then a cartridge issue. FMJ are for paper and military not for critters. JHOP
    Jeff
     
  3. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    The Military uses Full Metal Jacket rounds because the Geneva Convention doesn't allow fragmenting bullets for purposes of war. Military forces from around the World are supposed to use Full Metal Jackets for personnel warfare. Usually a hit from a conventional FMJ doesn't kill, but leaves a clean hole. The clean hole allows for the wound to be sutured up by medics. This may sound goofy but it is fact.

    For any type of hunting, Full Metal Jacket ammunition is a poor choice for cleanly dispatching of an animal. The object when shooting animals is supposed to be a quick clean kill. Hollow Points and Soft Lead Nose bullets are a far better choice as they usually expand to at least twice their original size causing devastating damage and usually a clean kill. Just Say'n...................
     
  4. Bird30

    Bird30 TS Member

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    FMJ bullets are dangerous to shoot as they stay together. If you shoot soft points with most varmint guns you can pick the bullet up off the ground where they hit if you miss your target. They are very destructive on game and varmints for instant kills. The faster you drive them the more destructive they are.

    Dave
     
  5. locdoc

    locdoc Member

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    I've heard the theory that a soldier wounded with a FMJ projectile takes two other soldiers out of the battle to get the wounded off the battlefield. If he gets killed then he's there until the skirmish is over.

    Doug Whiton, P/W dealer/dist
     
  6. TinMan88

    TinMan88 TS Member

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    If the bullet did not exit you know it dumped all its energy before stopping. There is no reason to stop using FMJ if you understand the nature of what they do. Obviously, not wrecking a pelt would be high on the list, right? I would not be surprised to see a yote crawling away a bit unless you used something quite a bit larger. They are wild and tough. It is said that the military useful range on combatants is not much over 300yds. Getting a body shot with an expanding bullet would upstage that FMJ in soft tissue, but hey ya got the dog.
     
  7. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    Last 2 coyotes I shot were with Hornady SX, and they dropped like a stone.

    That bullet can't be driven more than 3400 FPS or it disintegrates.

    FMJ are a no no on the prairie becuase of ricochet considerations.

    So also are horizon shots.

    HM
     
  8. Beni

    Beni Member

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    Back in the day FMJ"S went into a pelt puncher load. The velocity was dropped down quite alot so the bullet just punched a hole through the animal with little pelt damage hence pelt puncher load. I could never get decent accuracy out of these loads. Best to use soft point or another frangible style bullet to get er done Beni
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure the bullet did not exit? Often a FMJ on smaller game exits with a small hole that can be easily overlooked in fur.

    Most states have outlawed FMJ for hunting of any kind, and with good reason. It often wounds but does not immediately kill, leaving the animal to suffer a prolonged, agonizing death. It's simply not ethical to use FMJ on animals.

    Consider switching to softpoints, hollowpoints or the newer plastic points.
     
  10. TinMan88

    TinMan88 TS Member

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    Yours is an interesting comment Brian, How does that work on human combatants?
     
  11. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I'm not understanding your question. What exactly are you asking?
     
  12. geeber

    geeber Member

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    I'll tell you something that a lot of people won't believe. A .223 52gr hollowpoint factory load will go through a piece of 3/8" steel plate like it was drilled.

    Gary B.
     
  13. 221

    221 Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    UUUUUHHHHHHHHHHH........Geneva.....NO.....IT"S THE "HAGUE CONVENTION"

    Our military is now using hollow point and other fragmenting ammo because our lawyers say "we" can get away with it.
     
  14. TinMan88

    TinMan88 TS Member

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    Thank you 221
     
  15. ccw1911

    ccw1911 Member

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    221 is correct it is the Hague Convention of 1899 that has sanctions against using expanding bullets. I'm not positive but I don't think Congress ever voted on it but we seem to have been bound by it anyway. Civilized warfare you know. Ok to blow a man to pieces with artillery but hollow points would be cruel.

    The US Military has been using hollow point ammo for at least 20 years, not in conventional war but against terrorists by our anti-terrorist teams like within Seals and Delta.

    The .223 or 556 nato fmj has a tendency to tumble and or fragment if it hits bone or something solid causing a much worse wound than if it travels straight thru. I'm not too surprised a fmj wouldn't exit a coyote because it may have started tumbling and went length ways down the animal without exiting. A good HP in the head or vitals should drop one in it's tracks, but terminal ballistics are not completely predictable.

    Don't underestimate the little 223, I have a friend whose trophy room has about 30 very nice whitetails all taken with an AR15 and Remington hollow points and all one shot kills. He is also a world class shooter which helps.
     
  16. Mr. Schock

    Mr. Schock TS Member

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    because terrorists are not lawful enemy combatants it is legal according to the US government to use hollow points to kill them
     
  17. TD1958

    TD1958 Member

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    I use balistic tip in 55 gr. and let's just day DEAD no follow up shots required. Good luck, Tim
     
  18. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    with the 1 in 8 twist in my varmet ar, I get better accuracy with the heaver 69gr. jacketed boat tail hp...it takes a heavey bullet for that fast twist. and they do plenty of damage, have shot pdogs around 400 yds.


    tony
     
  19. TOOLMAKER 251

    TOOLMAKER 251 Active Member

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    Tony, you can shoot 52 gr. just fine in 1-8 or 1-7 twist barrels just can't shoot heavier bullets (above 69 gr.) in slower then 1-9 barrels.
     
  20. oskerspap12

    oskerspap12 Active Member

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    I saw a kid shoot 3 deer this year with a .223 Rem.,using 55gr. Remington Core-locs.All three bullets were recovered on the far side of said shot,laying against the hide perfectly mushroomed.I'm not advocating the use of a .223 for deer hunting,but the proof is in the puddin'.All three shots were taken within 30 to 40 yds.Sufficient yes,perfect.......far from it,but it was all the kid could afford(a H&R Handi-rifle).

    D.P.Reynolds
     
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