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2 years for executing a man?

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by xringjim, Nov 6, 2010.

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  1. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    Gun ownership is a serious responsibility. Police officers should be held to the same accountability as a citizen. And in many cases even a little higher. The Oakland BART cop that shot a young man in the back thinking his tazer was what he was holding in his hand should have gone to jail for more than 2 years. The whole incident was caught on video and showed exactly what occured. And if any here think that it's plausible to mix up whether you're holding a gun or tazer I'd ask you to put all your guns up for sale right now. As you don't have enough sense to own a gun. Jim
     
  2. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    But the Tazer could have had a release trigger and the fellow just got confused.

    Pat Ireland
     
  3. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure the victim's family feels the same as you Pat. A person's death should always be the butt of someones jokes, don't ya think?
     
  4. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Frankly, considering the immunity many police officers get, I'm surprised he was held personally accountable at all. Usually it's the taxpayers who ultimately get held accountable when they have to pay off a multi-million dollar lawsuit.
     
  5. likes-to-shoot

    likes-to-shoot Well-Known Member

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    Brian that hasn't come into play yet. Apparently the man was on the ground face down when this incident occurred. A bad situation for both sides. I feel just as bad for the officer as I do the victim.
     
  6. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    why would you feel bad for the officer? He executed this indivdual- the person was innocent and peaceful and didnt need to be tasered-- its all on video

    He flat out threatened the individual with a gun- might have been because of race and the gun went off

    He was executed

    I agree with the posters that feel that way

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  7. Ljutic111

    Ljutic111 TS Member

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    Police officers shouldn`t be treated any differently than an average citizen . If he commited a crime or violence , he should be prosecuted as everyone else would be . He was trained for such an occurance but failed in his job . Hang him .
     
  8. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Rick- this guy had done nothing illegal to begin with- nor had his friends- and he wasnt resisting

    he was face down- with this guy kneeling on him

    why would he even draw the taser?

    If he had to do something- why not cuff him?

    Gene
     
  9. omgb

    omgb Well-Known Member

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    Before anyone passes judgment he or she needs to try drawing a weapon under duress. What we do when we think we are in danger is nothing like what we do when we are at a range. The cop made a huge mistake. The city obviously did too by putting a uniform on someone who couldn't handle the job. All of this is a far cry from committing a criminal act. What he did, sad as it was, was more in line with hitting a women in a cross walk while talking on the radio in hot pursuit. Jail time? Not hardly. Community service, probation and a lifetime ban from police or emergency work yes but jail...no. That cop, as crummy as he was, did not kill that man with intent nor was he deliberately being reckless. He is going to jail because he is white and the victim was black and this is California. If you can't see that you haven't been paying attention. The man who was killed BTW, was not your ordinary passive citizen. He was mentally ill and on the street. Not the best place for him and a real difficult situation for the police. he was sick, not a criminal but his actions, if taken by a sane person would be criminally defiant. A tough mess all the way around.
     
  10. FRedmon

    FRedmon Active Member

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    Remember this thread?

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  11. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Ought to be in the Off Topic section.
     
  12. ms_yuan

    ms_yuan Member

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    Before the transit cop fired his gun, he states, "I'm going to taze him." Also in the video there is clearly a look of shock and surprise on the cop's face as he realizes he shot the man instead.

    Is he blameless? Heck no. There's enough fault to go all around. The cop should have made sure of what he was doing, the victim should have complied with the cop's orders to ensure no one would even think of needing to taze him, the tazer manufacturer should NOT have installed a tazer with a gun handle to ensure there's sufficient psychological distance between the tazer and a gun.

    I feel sorry for the victim's family, I feel sorry for the cop. The only folks I don't feel sorry for are the idiots smashing car windows and looting.
     
  13. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    omgb, sorry, but you're totally off base on this one. In you're view a cop can't commit a crime in the performance of his duty IF there was no 'intent'. That is laughable. AND, if it had been a case of white on black the judge would have given the max sentence. Here in Ca. we have a 'hate' crime statute plus one that adds time in jail for gun related crime. None of which was applied. Lastly, 'mentally ill'? So it's the 'mentally ill' guys fault for being out in public? Gee, what would be different if it was a drunk? The ONLY reason the cop didn't get off scot free was the incident was caught on video. No video, no conviction. And that animal would still be out on the streets with a uniform. JKP
     
  14. omgb

    omgb Well-Known Member

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    It was not the mentally ill guy's fault and I didn't say that. It's "our" fault for not providing the means and the method for treating guys like that. We know what happens to them and we know how to prevent it but we don't....for a host of reasons; some good, most poor.

    If the cop was performing his duty and a mistake was made, that's hardly criminal...that's what I mean. If we don't make clear decisions with regard to that, not cop will ever feel safe performing his duty.

    He did not execute that man, nor did he murder him. He made a lethal mistake. He was where he was supposed to be, doing what he was supposed to do when he made a mistake, pure and simple. The video and the audio make that clear. What happened was manslaughter without intent or depraved indifference.

    As to the black/white issue, just look at the facts. The trial judge admitted he made an unsatisfactory judgment but qualified it as being the best he felt he could do. The public outcry for "blood" was huge. The choice of prosecution statutes was political. Everything about this case screams race. To think that it wasn't is wishful at best.

    I'm not saying that a huge wrong wasn't done here...it clearly was and a innocent sick man and his family are paying a terrible price. However, to call this criminal and assess prison time is simply wrong. The judge threw this cop to the crowd in the hope of quelling charges of bias and anti-black prejudice. The whole thing is a mess and good cops will suffer for it in the future as will we the next time a deranged person is threatening the public peace.
    R Talley.
     
  15. Ahab

    Ahab Well-Known Member

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    omgb ... good post!
     
  16. brownk80

    brownk80 Member

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    Rick, he wasn't a San Francisco police officer, he waw a BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) Officer and there has always been an arguement over the level of training they recieve whether it is a real issue or not.

    Gene, The young man was on the ground because he had been causing trouble and was resisting and not cooperating with the BART police.

    It was a tragedy for everyone involved but it wasn't a one sided deal.

    Brownk80
     
  17. g7777777

    g7777777 TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    I saw the video - he wasnt resisting-- and when he was on the ground- not resisting- why would the guy draw a taser?

    Whatever happened before- doesnt count-- as far as him being in control- tasers arent to punish someone they are to gain control

    These people shouldnt have even been stopped but assuming they were and this guy was or could have been in handcuffs- what possible danger did he pose?

    This has happened all to frequently

    Here in Iowa an individual last year pursued someone for a suspected traffic violation- against department policy - when the individuals car is stopped ( for the assumed minor traffic violation) the police officer gets out of his car with his gun drawn- and runs up to the vehicle and shoots the driver through the closed window of the vehicle with his 12 year old daughter there- all the witnesses testified the law enforcement officer shouldnt have taken any of those actions and was specifically trained not to.

    now he shoots him from behind in the head- claiming that as he ran up there he saw a silver gleam in the guys hand- which later the police argue was a cell phone

    a couple of years before that- a raid on a house occurs- and police enter the house go upstairs and kill a man coming out of the bathroom- to investigate what the noise he just heard was- the police claim he had a hair dryer in his hand== it was the wrong house- and this guy was just a financial planning guy- no charges

    I saw this video- the guy wasnt resisting in the video- and again whatever happened before doesnt matter- shooting someone with a taser or a gun isnt a punishment allowed to law enfocement people- in fact law enforcement is not allowed to punish

    Now what about this video- where an Iraq veteran on leave is shot on his knees 3 times? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb9ktN1Xf2s&feature=related

    The vast majority of law enforcement are good people but to protect those that arent- or that abuse their authority gives the public no protection at all.

    regards from Iowa

    Gene
     
  18. xringjim

    xringjim TS Member

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    My 'intention' when starting this thread was to only point out how it seems the law applies when you're a police officer. Who knows what was in the cop's heart as he pulled that trigger. I believe his 'intention' was to be as good a cop as he could be. Why else would the dept. give him a gun? As an 'operater' of a firearm there is a responsibility for me to have it used in accord with the law. Hunting, at the range, or in my home. I only hope the officer gets some mental help while in jail. Cause if he EVER goes off again in public we'll have more than 150 mad people in Oakland. Jim
     
  19. brownk80

    brownk80 Member

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    Gene, I don't know what you saw, and I don't condone the boy being shot, but he was causing a problem that is why there were four cops there, the kid sitting up against the wall was also in cuffs, you only saw the part of the vidoe (cell phone camera) not from the start to finish. I am not saying that police are right all the time and that there aren't bad ones out there but I have ridden around with police several times and was amazed at the amount of crap they have to put up with and the number of times they walk away and I think if your were concerned about coming home every day to see your family at the end of work you might be a little bit more aggressive, protective whatever you want to use, but I think that police do one hell of a lot more good than they do bad.

    JMHO.

    Brownk80
     
  20. brownk80

    brownk80 Member

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    One last thought. What do you have to say about the four officers that were killed in Oakland last year trying to apprehend a guy that just got out of jail, who had raped a young girl and went to his sisters house to get an AK-47 he had hidden there? He killed the first officer who stopped him for a traffic violation then his back up then two SWAT officers when they entered the house trying to get his baby nephew out to safety after his sister told them he wasn't there. His sister also threatened to sue.

    Sometimes it goes wrong regardless of what you do.

    Regards,


    Brownk80
     
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