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2 hole vs.3 hole

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by dbcook, Jul 18, 2010.

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  1. dbcook

    dbcook TS Member

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    i simple solution to 2 hole vs.3 hole targets. simply have a survey similar to phil kiner,s on trapshooters.com. the only rule that would matter is you must be an ata member to vote. you must sign your ata number to you post or your vote is nullified. david could do this the same as mr. kiners poll. no more "iwe need more info from small clubs...no more graphs. the ata could simply do what the majority of members want. i am sure that david could find 2 members of the ata on opposite sides of the 2 hole vs.3 hole squabble to count the votes.this could be started immediatley & responders could/would have x amount of weeks to cast their respective votes. i would gladly donate to a fund to help david with costs to do a survey like this. thanks..dwain
     
  2. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    And?

    Neil
     
  3. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Neil nailed it!!
     
  4. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    A more accurate survey has already been made. Clubs that throw 2 hole targets draw more shooters than clubs that throw 3 hole targets. Clubs can now legally throw 3 hole targets if the majority of shooters at the club want them. Few do. The excessive complaints by shooters limited the enforcement of mandatory 3 hole targets to only one year.

    Pat Ireland
     
  5. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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    Pat and Neil are correct. As much as the highly vocal here might think that the shooters want the three holer to return, we have already taken the vote, every weekend by the "pocketbook ballot." The two holer won.
     
  6. Barry C. Roach

    Barry C. Roach Well-Known Member

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  7. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    To quote (paraphrase) one (or more) esteemed ts-ers: "People like to shoot high scores."

    change the rules mandating 3-hole again? ain't gonna happen.

    Bob
     
  8. RJ

    RJ TS Member

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    There must be something I have missed in a prevous thread. What exactly is this two hole and three hole. I might know this but it would be back in the arcives of my memory somewhere and age has frozen it there. Be kind! Notta dummy ya know. Shors asime a settin here. Please answer with grace and dignaty. My mental state is very brusable. Thanks whatever it is!!! (Rich.inAz.orinnameonly).
     
  9. goatskin

    goatskin TS Member

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    3-hole ... 44º <del>maximum</del> spread (fixed. Thanks Jerry.)

    2-hole ... 34º

    'Holes' came from Winchester 1524 hand-set machines ... the 'legacy' machine, where angles were mechanically set on a plate with holes in it that controlled side-to-side movement.

    The 'hole' language allows a little more spread and the target is still legal. ATA rulebook are pretty detailed, and are not intuitive.


    Bob
     
  10. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    Minimum angle not maximum.
     
  11. smsnyder

    smsnyder Well-Known Member

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    What's the speed difference? Thanks
     
  12. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    No speed difference, only a difference in target angles. Or is target angels the better term?

    Pat Ireland
     
  13. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    Pat, didn't the old rule book call for targets to be thrown 48 to 52 yards, 8 to 12 feet high at 26 yards from the 16 yard line?? I think targets were thrown at varying speeds to obtain those settings at various clubs too.

    Is the procedure any different today than yesteryear for reporting less than suggested settings? Suggested settings for angle, elevation and speed? All play a role in the distance the clay target travels. Who do you report such abuses to these days and have any ever been reported that anyone knows of? What are the penalties for violators today if found tweaking the rules (again)?

    Hap
     
  14. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Hap- I agree, the speed/distance settings are being manipulated a bit. Clubs frequently set targets at 41-42 MPH in the morning and claim that after things warm up they will be going 43 MPH. But, other clubs that do not use a radar gun will set targets to nearly 50 yards with a 10 MPH wind from behind. This means some targets are a little too slow and some others are way too fast. Some clubs and many shooters do not understand that a target traveling 45 yards may be legal under some conditions. Many clubs, very many clubs, do not understand that the target height pole at 10 yards is a guide to get the correct target height at 30 yards. The height at 30 yards is the critical parameter, not the height at 10 yards.

    A complaint for setting illegal targets against an individual or a club as the defendant can be made to the ATA for setting illegal targets. The burden of proof is on the complainant . Obtaining clear and convincing evidence is not easy.

    Pat Ireland
     
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