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2 Hole or 3 Hole targets that's the question!

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Mr Newbius©, Mar 13, 2008.

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  1. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    That is such great information I could just give you a big wet slobbery kiss ya old Wanker.
     
  2. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Oh puhleeze.....let's keep it clean. No hanky panky/or and patty fingers on this site!

    Or....just get a room at the Mayflower!

    Curt
     
  3. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    I'm sorry I forgot, this is a trap shooting site and not a sporting clay site.

    Sorry Wanker, I'll just hold your hand instead.
     
  4. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Wanker,

    What we will never know is what would have happened to the numbers if the ATA would have stayed the course and insisted on the three hole rule being enforced.

    If what some have said on the other thread is true, maybe we'd have greater participation today because of the three hole target. As the tootsie pop owl used to say "the world may never know".

    I am sure that much of the cause for the decline in numbers was due to the fact that everyone knew what was going on. At our club we changed all the traps to three hole for our leagues but outside of the trap committee no one knew it. We didn't have any drop off in participation. I would submit that if the ATA could have done it this way, the drop off would have been much less severe.

    Two hole, three hole, makes no difference to me. Let's just shoot.
     
  5. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    Mr.Newbius you are right. Most of these guys never shot Sporting Clays and had a screaming midi buzz by you 4 feet off the ground from right to left doing 60-70 mph or a tower mini blast past you at 70mph, let alone FITASC. I had to ask Tron what a 3 hole target was and laughed when he told me.


    Jerbear
     
  6. Andy Ott

    Andy Ott Guest

    No,No,No,No,the real question is 71/2s or 8s!
     
  7. Paladin

    Paladin Well-Known Member

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    Tom B,,,just a little input here,,one of the first things a serious registered shooter looks at while studying a trap house that he will shoot on, is the width of the angle. A three hole house is easy to spot because the extreme left angles are straight-away's from post five, and the extreme right angles are straight-away's from post one.
     
  8. Hauser

    Hauser Member

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    The Kissable Wanker


    If your trying to make the case the 2-hole target will save trapshooting from external economic forces, good luck.


    If you want to get a comparison in the cost of shooting over the years use the above web-site.


    Jerry Hauser
     
  9. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    load'em up throw'em out! I just want to shoot. I didnt know anything about 2 3 hole...what ever legal targets ect ect. object is to shoot those things coming out of that box. When I started thought it was dificult, practiced got better, then I wasnt getting better. Learned more about gun fit,stance, follow through ect ect. got even better, I am still getting better. Now consistant is what I really need. I blasted several 25s in winter league this year but recently dipped into the lower 20s and a few really bad rounds. Anyway you will only get as good as your practice and learn. I see this in golf, got guys who whine about the harder courses I get t times for and from playing the back tees. These same guys cant shoot par at a pitch and put WHY couse they do not put the effort into getting better can they play well yes just not well often. So hard course easy course you cant play well on any field if you do not play well!!!. trap is easier than golf, less espensive no not really
     
  10. Jerbear

    Jerbear TS Member

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    Andy, <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d184/Jerbear1098/Captions/?action=view&current=captioner9356325.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>


    Kitty
     
  11. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    I started shooting in 1969. If you look at the cost of shells, entry's or even options you will find the sport was far more expensite then it is today. That is compared to the cost of living or income. Our sport has declined simply because it has become either boring (as it may be) or because the posibility of the average or newer shooting scores that compare with the great (or should we call them pro's). Time continually change, but our organization and sport has little if any change, that is with the exception of making it easier. And without any controlable guidance from our ATA. - Jim
     
  12. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Ya know ... its just targets in the air and all the targets are away targets which are just variations of straight aways at different going away angles but all targets are rising the same way but when a target is missed its because it is not set right or the target is this or that other than the shooter themselves saying they missed the target.

    The question is not 2 hole or 3 hole but the question is why do you as the shooter not want to improve as a shooter and possibly shoot at a target that might be a little more difficult to hit or is it that you are just not capable of it?

    Tough question to answer and I wonder how the shooters of 10, 20, 30, 40. 50 or more years ago would feel today if they knew all the things done to actually make the sport easier.
     
  13. rwm12

    rwm12 Member

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    I always thought the holes l thru 5 were to help adjust the trap for wind conditions (head or tail wind) in order to keep the angles legal. If you had a head wind of 15-20 mph you would have some wide angles with the trap set in the No. 3 hole. KEEP'EM LEGAL
     
  14. tom berry

    tom berry Active Member

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    Paladin, You're right, us serious shooters can pick up on wider angles pretty easily. But, the mass exit from the ATA was not by the serious shooters.

    I still think, given enough time, the numbers would have come back. Look at the increase in the 1996 year, the largest target increase in any one year except for 1999 (the 100th aniversary of the Grand).

    Tom
     
  15. Big Az Al

    Big Az Al Well-Known Member

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    I have shoot 2 hole targets that were hitting the 500 yard stake fighting a head wind to boot, I got my first 25 straight at this club, who would think of that!

    I have had steady diet of of SSOOOFT 2 holers and my average wich hit a high at the club that threw those 50yard targets, is going backwards, it may just be the shooter having head problems, but.......

    When my steady diet of SSOOOFFT targets started, a great shooter that I will not name had a below his average shoot.

    the next shoot there he was back on his game.

    So I don't have any answers, other then get the targets in the air and shoot the things.

    but are soft targets a miss leading theme?

    Al
     
  16. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    DAMN ... hitting the 500 yard stake and in a head wind?

    Now that is some serious trap shooting!
     
  17. tomk2

    tomk2 Member

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    Uh, do they still make trap machines with holes in them?
     
  18. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    tomk2, older shooters in the game speak in "hole" terms since the target angles were set by such crude methods.

    "2 hole" angles are; 34 degree angles.

    "3 hole" angles are 44 degree angles, straight aways from 1 and 5. AND, here's the the tricky part no one ever mentions. Targets outside those parameters several degrees, I think it was about 5 degrees?, are still legal targets for scoring purposes! What that little add on did was make shooters shoot tougher angles or suffer the consequences if they turned it down!

    TKW, another thing you might want to confirm with older average books, that is if you really want answers? At what point in trapshooting history did longer yardage shooters begin registering more targets per year than ever before? You've heard it said here many times by those in the know, more registered targets being shot by less shooters surely? Somewhere in that search there may be a few answers which goes against the grain of your "financial or economy" argument. Hap
     
  19. Mr Newbius©

    Mr Newbius© TS Member

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    Ya know you could refer and think of shooting on a machine with more holes as a Holy machine and thusly you might get Gods help in shooting better on a Holy machine on Sundays since Sundays are kind of a Holy day of churchgoers.

    Just another thought to ponder upon when thinking of shooting more holes.
     
  20. Neal Crausbay

    Neal Crausbay Member

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    Kissable Wanker and others


    The so-called enforcement of the straightaway from one and five rule was not just one year. It commenced in 1994 and was upheld at the BOD annual meeting in August 1995 and was not rescinded until the BOD annual meeting in August 1996. Therefore it pretty much covered all of the 94-95 target year in addition to the entire 95-96 target year.

    At the 1996 annual BOD meeting, David Bopp the Executive Director, prepared and I presented data showing that the membership retention rate was higher than it had been in over 10 years. Would hardly seem likely if as some would have us think, people were not shooting because of the more difficult target presentation than they were accustomed to. You would think that membership would have declined also.

    I assume if the target count is down for this current target year, we can blame it on shooters getting tired of the softer and easier narrow target setting in vogue with the high average seekers, or should we look at outside reasons such as cost of travel, lodging, and ammunition? I believe the same should apply to 1995.

    I will never forget that one delegate at the '96 meeting said his state shoot was down 10%. The average attendance at his state shoot was so small that if one carload of shooters didn't come, it would have dropped nearly as much. Of interest also is that Tom Aklin, Ohio Delegate, put a box in the Central Entry building during the 1995 Ohio state shoot or that year's Grand, asking Ohio shooters to vote for or against the 3 hole rule. It ran 70% in favor of the 3 hole so he was bound to express that during the '95 BOD meeting. The next year, he didn't put the ballot box back up so he wouldn't have to risk the outcome. Instead he just got up in the meeting and said that the shooters he had talked to were against it. Most of us tend to hang out with other shooters who feel as we do instead of those who don't and he was personally against it so there you go.

    I don't look at these threads very often but while I'm here I want to express something I feel needs to be pointed out. The 27 yard shooters will continue to dominate the handicap events especially with the easier target now being thrown until such time as the maximum yardage is increased to at least 30 to 32 yards. Think about this. Most all shooters at some point reach a yardage that is beyond their personal ability to shoot winning scores from consistently, EXCEPT the 27 yard shooter. We are allowed to stay right where we are and do it again. Keep in mind that 90%+ of the 27 yard shooters do not belong there, but they are not the ones doing all the winning. The best of them are not being handicapped any further. Now compare this to any other yardage shooter who wins. He or she has to shoot the next time from longer yardage and will usually find a yardage where they hit a wall.

    Taking shot out of the shells will impact everyone where an increase in maximum yardage will only affect those on the maximum. We had to increase the maximum from 25 to 27 and it needs to be increased again.

    Have a good day and shoot well,

    Neal Crausbay
     
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