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1oz 7 1/2 's questions

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by mike T, Sep 29, 2008.

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  1. mike T

    mike T Member

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    Would you load 1oz of 7 1/2's? How far back would you shoot them and feel comfortable? I got a few bags of 71/2 and am looking to reduce the recoil and streatch my components. I would like them to be 8's but they are not. Or would you just load them up at 1 1/8 oz for handicap and buy some 8's for the 1 ozers Just always liked 71/2 over 8's thanks
    mike t
     
  2. Andy44

    Andy44 Active Member

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    Mike-

    I like to push 1oz of 7 1/2s at 1250~1275 fps using the DownRange XL wads. Nice and tight patterns through a PureGold .030 choke with good speed and energy. Crushes clays when you do your job!

    AndyH
     
  3. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    Just take a sharpie and remark your shot bag. Gotta any 8s left loaded, load some 7 1/2 in the same type os shell. mix it 10 7.5s 15 8s. Have some one hand you them at random with out you knowing which are which. Then try to guess which are which.
     
  4. jimbotrap

    jimbotrap TS Member

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    I have loaded thousands of 1 oz 7 1/2's. Load them about 1225 fps and shoot them at all three disciplines in practice. Cannot tell the difference from
    1 1/8 oz loads. But have it in my head I need 1 1/8 for tournaments, except for 1st shot of doubles. - jim
     
  5. hoggy

    hoggy TS Member

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    I use 1 oz 7 1/2 for second shot of Continental. 1oz 8 for 1st shot. 7 1/2 @1oz will break targets just fine at least to the 27yd and farther.
     
  6. Shooting Coach

    Shooting Coach Well-Known Member

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    Dear Mike

    I was going to come in and give my two cents worth, but Andy is dead on about how he loads his ammo and the choke. McClellan and Jim have it right about not being able to tell the difference in ammo, (other than recoil and cost). Perazzi Big Bore said the rest of it. One ouncers like speed. 1250 is a magic number. Easy on the gun and shooter, rough on the target.

    My primary ammo is one ounce of 7 1/2 in a 12SO Clone wad at 1250 fps. I shoot them at everything but the 27 on the trap field. I load a Bunker load of 24 grams or 7/8 ounce of 7 1/2's at 1350 for Bunker. For Skeet, I change the 24 gram load to nines and slow it to 1250.
     
  7. Dove Commander

    Dove Commander TS Member

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    I have not been impressed with 1 oz 7 1/2's for the 27. 16's 20's, and even the 24yard line their fine. At the 27 you need accuracy and confidence. I don't have the confidence when I see dicey breaks. Maybe I've not stumbled on the right load yet, but I've tried quite a few. The last one was a green dot load with a windjammer wad at 1250.
     
  8. bigclown

    bigclown TS Member

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    1 oz. of 7.5s @ 27 are just fine. Many FITASC shooters who have 40 - 60 yard shots use nothing else but 1 oz. 7.5s @ 1250 fps. Try 'em...you won't be disappointed. Regards, Ed
     
  9. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    I load 1 oz 7 1/2s with 18.5 Promo in AA case using Windjammer wad, use it all the time for buddy shoots from the 27.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  10. Post  2

    Post 2 TS Member

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    Dr.longshot,what primer do you prefer/use with your above load? Post-2
     
  11. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Here's an old post; to me it says that if you want to shoot one ounce from the 27, you should shoot 8's. The subject was a one-time enthusiasm there, now apparently dissipated, for requiring one-ounce loads for ATA registered shooting.

    "As part of the speed-test with factory shells I thought I'd take a serious look at what happens when you shoot 1 oz. of 7 1/2's at handicap, which for this test was patterning at 40 yards. I used 1 oz. Nitros from the 2005 Grand.

    First, I wondered about all that I've read here saying, in various ways : "A one-ounce load puts more pellets on the paper (or in some area) than an ounce and an eighth. It hardly seemed possible, so here's my result:

    [​IMG]

    The title says it all. Few pellets are fewer pellets, there's no magic here.

    To ward off the inevitable "Every gun is a law unto itself" objection, I shot the same shells, at the same distance on the same day from my Perazzi MX-2000 single. There was no difference.

    [​IMG]

    So why do I think that requiring 1 ounce is not a good idea? One of the outputs of the shotgun-insight program is the probability of hitting a target with one pellet in various parts of the pattern. I've used only the 0 to 10-inch ring, the place you are if you are shooting very well (and the only place you can use if you are to break a winning score). You need a very high probability here to get that good score.

    [​IMG]

    So there you have it. Good guns, good shells, perfectly pointed and you still can't win with one ounce of 7 1/2's most of the time. It wouldn't be fair to require them, would it?

    Oh ya, one more thing. If you try to "get it back with pellet speed" you are doing the worst possible thing.

    Yours in Sport,

    Neil
     
  12. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Checking
    pattern density on a piece of paper may not be the true test of the efficiency of an shotgun load.-firstly, pattern testing is a two dimensional aspect. In trap shooting the target & shot train are three dimensional. A shot train can be several feet long. Now it is important that the core of shot hit the target with enough pellets to break it. In 1 1/8 loads a good percentage of the pellets may be at the end of the shot train & never get to the target at the same time --If you don't believe me- Go to Devault Industries site & in one of his newsletters there is an article on 1 oz vs. 11/8 oz loads in 12 ga shotguns.

    lou
     
  13. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    Not much left to say. One can accept Neil's actual data. Or, one can say Neil is wrong and repeat his testing. Or, one can believe another person who says they shot OK for me from the 27.

    mike- You began this thread indicating that you have a few bags of 7.8 and you wish they were 8 shot. It would be rather simple to trade them at your club.

    Pat Ireland
     
  14. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    lou, I went to Dennis' newsletters and couldn't find what you reference.

    It is true that a paper-pattern represents the best possible outcome. Pellets which are in the paper-pattern may not get there at the right time, just as you point out. But if they aren't there, they aren't there, and at 40 yards in this test, there weren't enough pellets to post a winning score most of the time. The point is, if you chose this combination, it is more likely that you will miss more perfectly-pointed targets than you would with 1 1/8 ounce or, presumably, with 8's if you want to shoot one ounce loads.

    Neil
     
  15. 635 G

    635 G Well-Known Member

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    Neil, it is on the August newsletter, you'llhave to page down to the second section to see the article about 1 oz vs 11/8 oz loads--it made some sense to me

    Lou
     
  16. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Big Tuna, I shoot ATA, FITASC, and sporting clays. I'm a NSCA member and shoot the Detroit clubs. FITASC and sporting seldom register perfect scores. If am allowed to shoot 1 1/8oz Nitros in the event, I will. Bird presentations make a difference. I've yet to see 100 straight in FITASC or sporting on a "real" course. 27 yard ATA is not comparable to FITASC or sporting.
     
  17. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Does this mean Kay Ohye would get his first yardage reduction in over 30 years if forced to shoot 1oz. loads? Maybe Neil should pattern those guns with a few boxes of Remington Shurshot or Federal Champion paper shells from the early 60's. Those results might be much more meaningful when determining if such loads were adequate for breaking consistent winning scores when the system actually worked!!
     
  18. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    oleolliedawg- Neil was talking about the probability of missing a perfectly pointed target. That is very different from shooting competitive scores.

    Neils graph clearly shows that if you use 1 1/8 of shot, and you point out all of the birds perfectly, there is a probability that you would miss one bird. It also means that if you break the first 99 birds, and point the last bird perfectly, there is a 99% chance you will hit the bird. Changing to 1 oz shot charges decreases these probabilities.

    One could argue that the small sample size used by Neil could be a source or error. It is likely that if the sample sizes were increases, Neil's probabilities could shift +- 0.5%. But he has given us the best data I have seen and I am not concerned about a possible 0.5% error.

    Pat Ireland
     
  19. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Pat, so you're telling us that it was nearly impossible for a target to exit unscathed a pattern produced by 1 1/8oz. Remington ShurShot paper trap loads with paper wadding from the 27yd. line.

    I beg to differ as most guns from that era produced 65 to 70% patterns using those loads while 90% patterns are frequently achieved today with our combinations of guns and ammo. Since the difference between 1 1/8 and 1oz. is around 10% todays' combinations of shells and guns produce better results with 1oz. that the loads of yesterday!!
     
  20. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Mike T

    In my opinion, at 16 yards, the difference between 7.5's and 8's is so small as to be inconsequential, though unlike Neil who tests everything, I have not tested this.

    If you're looking to reduce recoil, may I offer the following:


    Remington hulls

    Winchester 209 primers

    Downrange XL-1 neon green wad

    17 grains of Hodgdon CLAYS

    One ounce of whatever you have (I use 8.5's)

    Recoil is mild. Muzzle velocity was about 1160 according to the testing done by Kevin Lewis at Downrange on a sample of shells I sent him.

    Tim
     
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