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17 yard line

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Old Cowboy, Jan 29, 2012.

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  1. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    All this talk of reductions got me wondering.....WHY don't we use the 17 yard line? I mean REALLY??, it just stands there gathering dust. Those shooters that aren't maintaining a hncp breakpoint average in the singles sure wouldn't be underhandicapped standing on the seventeen in the handicap??
     
  2. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    It didn't work in the past because so few shooters stood there it was difficult to find a squad. Might work now-for awhile only!!
     
  3. running bear

    running bear Member

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    If you can't hit them from the 18,yd line why have handicap at all?

    Buck
     
  4. Auctioneer

    Auctioneer Well-Known Member

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    The 17, 18, 19 yard line is a girly lines. What man wants to shoot from the girly line?
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Same could be said from any yardage, Buck.

    Why not move singles to 27 and leave handicap alone?
     
  6. running bear

    running bear Member

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    Big M.

    You missed the point.

    Buck
     
  7. RunGunIPSC

    RunGunIPSC TS Member

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    It's what you use if you want to play fake bunker & use a wobble trap because there is no Olympic 15 traps.
     
  8. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    17 yard line....you have to be kidding. Just let'em stand on the house.

    It's pitiful enough that the EC activitated the 18 yard line, but if it gets any worse maybe those folks shouldn't be shooting handicap at all.



    GGGEEEEZZZ what load of hope and fairness for all .
     
  9. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I like the idea of shooting from the 17. Of course I will have to choose another choke, probably a .02365 constriction. Change loads, maybe 7/8 oz, probably 1 ozl. Not to mention 8 1/2's or 9's!

    How lite can I go with AA SuperHandicap???
     
  10. ziegmund

    ziegmund Active Member

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    let me get this straight, I can shoot from the 17 yard line, meet girly's who smell nice, not have to worry about overweight complaining old men, sign me up

    Eddie
     
  11. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Big M,

    You can probably use a cylinder choke from the 17.

    Next thing you know they'll have the yard lines marked in braille. If you've ever noticed the drive thru ATM buttons are labeled in braille as well. Just how many blind people do you suppose are using the drive thru?

    If it weren't so sad it'd be funny.
     
  12. OldGoat

    OldGoat Well-Known Member

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    I was always told that the yard lines between the 16 and 20 were there to help the majority of trapshooters who were mentally challenged...me, included. ;o) Regards, now Flame Away. Ed
     
  13. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    "Those shooters that aren't maintaining a hncp breakpoint average in the singles sure wouldn't be underhandicapped standing on the seventeen in the handicap??"

    John, you make a further point of making the 16 yard line another handicap yardage also.Seems the 16 is a real handicap if most can't manage scores above the break point??

    ATA has never addressed making the game easier for shooters with less talent to break winning scores! The only thing addressed is further handicapping the most proficient shooters in handicap game.

    Hap
     
  14. senior smoke

    senior smoke Well-Known Member

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    I still could not win a handicap event shooting from the 17 yard line. In fact, My 16 yard average would not win a handicap event. I have a friend that once wrote the ATA with his suggestion of shooting handicap.

    His letter stated to have everyone shoot from the same yardage, example 25 yards. He then said have everyone classified in handicap like 16 yards does. He said you would eliminate squading problems. The ATA did not accept his proposal.

    No matter where shooters are handicap the better shooters will win. Nothing wrong with that as this is the way it should be. I like the way the ATA has handicap set up. It allows people to improve to someday get to the 27. If your not good enough to get to the back fence, so be it. I could only get to 25 1/2 yards, and I accepted it.
    Steve Balistreri
     
  15. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    I've mentioned before that I have the 2008 Average Book data in MS Excel format, kindly supplied to me by Neil Winston. It would be interesting to have more recent data, but I suspect that the differences would be minor.

    Taking an arbitrary cutoff of at least 1000 handicap targets shot as an indicator of those who are serious about handicap, the 2008 data shows that the ONLY yardage group with at least 20% with a handicap average above the 90% break point for reduction is the 27 yard group. Every other group has the vast majority of their members averaging below 90% in handicap. For 20 yards and below over 95% of those shooters qualify for reductions. Even more telling, if we look at all singles shooters who shot at least 1000 singles targets, over 85% of them averaged under 90% at 16 yards. By that measure, not only should the 17 yard line be considered for handicap, but also the 16 yard line, and the vast majority of shooters should be assigned there!
     
  16. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    OK Hap,

    Maybe I'm just ruminating here waiting for spring but with all the talk about pouring more concrete behind the 27 yard line which would be a BIG problem for many clubs......if the purpose is to level the playing field why not just make it easier for the little dogs instead of harder for the big dogs, after all isn't that the theory behind the recent 2 yard reduction? Nobody has to pour any concrete to use the 17 yard line, it's already there. And while we're thinking outside the box, yeah why NOT use the 16 yard line in hncp too? For that matter if we're going to need to pour more concrete to level the playing field why not pour it in FRONT of the 16? REALLY I can't think of a single club where pouring more pads in front of the 16 yard line would involve anything more that just building some forms and calling readi-mix. OTOH I can think of many places where pouring behind the 27 would require major dirt excavation and/or clubhouse moving.

    John C. Saubak
     
  17. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    John, I'll ruminate with you a tad and re-chew the winter fat again.

    Nothing ATA does will make winners out of losers regardless of how much concrete is poured in front of the existing walkways to even have a 10 year line. Besides, ATA has never approached game changes geared toward making it easier for those without shooting prowess to win, place or show in any ATA shooting. The freebie yardage given says our leadership knows earned yardage is too easy to attain for proficient shots and those with lesser abilities! I'm glad they've attempted doing something but this act is merely kicking the can down the road?

    If added yardages was properly applied the correct way this time, added yardage would only need to be put in place at clubs holding major ATA point shoots! Everyone knows every club couldn't pour that much concrete but they wouldn't need to either! That's been used as an excuse not to further handicap the most proficient shots in the game though! With a new max, yardages earned from the 27 back MUST maintain the break point averages or MUST take their reductions back toward the 27 yard line! (As in MANDATORY reductions) Just like some now do by taking their reductions from the 27. Once again we'd have a true holy grail max line that nobody could camp out on as now done at the 27 without shooting good scores! Too many of us campers on the 27 now that can't hit our ass with either hand sometimes would lose the maxlineitis affecting quite a lot of shooters. What an honor it would be to be the first and or one of the few that could maintain the pinnacle of the ELITE shooters in our game by staying there??

    Hap
     
  18. Bird30

    Bird30 TS Member

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    Winter has lasted to long already. Cabin fever has set in. ( My trigger finger is getting stiff )

    Dave
     
  19. daddiooo

    daddiooo TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Meanwhile back at the ruminating post.....who does it hurt/affect if you choose to stay at the 27? If your average is say...87 or 88 I'd certainly resist a forced reduction, regardless of the ATA break point of 90. Depending on the number of targets shot in that current year one could effectively have an epiphany or a lesson and actually pull your average out of the tank and move beyond the break point. So in essence, I'd think that mandatory reductions would be viewed negatively by many shooters. Isn't the ability to refuse a reduction "freedom of choice" in action?

    Just sayn'
     
  20. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    daddiooo, if we were to ever have a new max yardage, that's sorely needed by the way, it wouldn't hurt a thing if one stayed at the 27 forever once it's earned? No mandatory reductions except for yardage gained, earned at the new max yardages if the breakpoint averages isn't maintained! I thought this was a discussion site for new ideas, possibly?

    Hap
     
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