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13 yd POI chokes

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by MDMike, Dec 6, 2012.

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  1. MDMike

    MDMike Well-Known Member

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    OK< I'm getting ready to benchrest shoot my Perazzi and XT. I am trying to get the XT to shoot where the Perazzi does. What chokes should I use. I have a .027 constriction for the Perazzi and a .030 for the XT. I have other chokes as well but these are as close as I can match a pair up. Thanks, Mike...
     
  2. jmac_cope

    jmac_cope Active Member

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    If you are going to shoot from 13 yards, it is likely that the .027 and .030 chokes are going to leave a big hole in your target from the wads. If the holes get in the way of determining your POI then go with more open chokes like a modified. For me I didn't mind the wad knocking a hole in the target. I felt that testing POI with the same choke that I shoot with eliminated one of the variables.
    JMAC
     
  3. RobertT

    RobertT Well-Known Member

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    I use the 13yd. method and agree with JMAC.
     
  4. waverider

    waverider Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with JMAC about using a more open choke.

    I do agree that you should use the choke that you plan to use. Different chokes some times shoot to different POI.

    So I would use the choke that you normally use in the Perazzi and the choke that you plan to use in the XT.

    Also make sure that you check were you are shooting both guns, pointing at the pattern board aim point free hand and at straight away targets.

    Jason
     
  5. JACK

    JACK Well-Known Member Supporting Vendor

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    It don't matter. The 27 and the 30 are virtually the same at 13 yards. You will be able to see the wad impact. Unlikely it will be in your pattern
    mia_2008_0303610.jpg
    This is how I do a 13 yard test. Against the metal board, with glasses on. I do the test standing, hence some good some bad. I can tell when I released off a good shot or a bad shot. This is a MX15 with tubes I think. BTW, I have a nice one that needs a shooter.
     
  6. MDMike

    MDMike Well-Known Member

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    Well, I was kinda leaning towards these chokes as they are close in constriction. Thanks, Mike.
     
  7. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree with MIA more. Pay attention that he wears glasses against a metal plate. We have a fairly heavy metal plate and it will spit shot back at you from 13 yds. That's why I take the time to set up a paper target.

    Afterthought, Interesting that not all shot gets spit back at you. Shows you the difference in various shells. I do not plan on reporting back with which shells have the harder shot. That is left for you to determine;)
     
  8. Hammer1

    Hammer1 Active Member

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    .

    MIA,

    If you were to shoot your metal plate out at 30 yards, how big would it have to be to capture 99% of the pellets from a centered hit through a Full choke ?

    .
     
  9. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    At 30 yards with a full choke your pattern should be 22"-24" diameter
     
  10. grntitan

    grntitan Well-Known Member

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    MIA has it right. At that distance you won't see much if any difference. That said, put the .030 in and leave it alone.
     
  11. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    I agree that free standing is the way to go. Sitting at a bench, and aiming is a totally different hold than you will have when standing, and mounting the gun freestyle. I like to pound a stake in the ground in front of the pattern board. I then mount the gun like normal, standing close enough to, and behind the stake, so that it takes just an inch of movement to touch my front hand to the side of the stake for steadying. Then firing the shot. This way you are shooting the same form, and hold, as you would if shooting targets. Plus you have the steadiness for consistent patterning.
     
  12. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Remember you POI is only relative to your POA. As you can see in MIA's pictures he is 2-3" high of the crosses. Your gun mount and line of sight would have to be pretty close between the Perazzi and the XT to get the same POI with just chokes. Adjustable rib, comb, butt plate would be more efficient.

    Wayne
     
  13. Trap2

    Trap2 Well-Known Member

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    Just by looking at Jack's MX15 POI it appears to be closer to 3-4" high at 13yds. (How am I doing here Jack?) This would make the gun shoot about 9-10" high at 40yds giving him a shooter that patterns a little over 80% high at that yardage. We all have a different POA to get the POI we want at yardage depending on the gun we are shooting and how it fits us. Jack's MX15 has the same POI that I look for when setting up a new gun for myself. The most inportant, and basic, thing to consider when doing this is to FIRST go to the 16 yard line and start shooting straight away targets from post 3, raising, or lowering, your comb, until you are totally smoking the targets, regardless of what you see when looking down the rib. Once you are smoking all the 16 yard straight away targets, move to post 1, fire 5 shots, and watch your breaks. If you are not smoking those targets, make very minor adjustments to your comb until you are. Then move to post 5 and repeat. When done, return to post 3 and smoke those targets. Only after you have done this, and are comfortable with the results, should you do the same test that Jack did. Trying to determine POA just by setting your POI will not work for you until you determine where your individual POA is after you have done this..... Just my experience.... Dan Thome (Trap2)
     
  14. Stl Flyn

    Stl Flyn Well-Known Member

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    I believe Dan's explanation to be the best way to determine point of impact, even on the board. After all you are not aiming a shotgun, at a moving target. Concentrate on the target, mount the gun with a low hold, move the gun upward to the target and follow through with the shot, just like when you are on the line. You obviously would have to take an average with this method, but by recreating the actual shooting method, and motion, with eye-hand coordination involved, you get the true results of where the shot is actually going. To me POI determined with a rest and aim, is just a starting point.
     
  15. Scott Johnson

    Scott Johnson Well-Known Member

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    +1 for Dan Thome, great advice. Scott
     
  16. zzt

    zzt Well-Known Member

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    Hammer1, even when I was taping two red rosin paper sheets together as patterning material (70" by 70") I did not always catch all the pellets. With my Superposed I did (beautiful full and fuller patterns), but when I changed to my Beretta 682 I always lost some pellets even with a full choke.

    I think I know where you are going with this, so I'll tell you what I decided. I count the pellets that go into the shells I plan to pattern. I also know that any pellet outside the central 24" (I use 21.2") is not going to do you any good, so I no longer bother with them. However, if you count all the hits in a 30" circle, you can still get an accurate pattern efficiency number because you know how many pellets you started with.

    BTW, you CANNOT trust there are the "correct" number of pellets in a good factory shell. I use STS shells sometimes. There are ALWAYS more pellets in them than you would expect for the weight specified. A lot more. That's why you end up with erroneously high pattern efficiency percentages if you don't count the actual number of pellets in the load.
     
  17. MDMike

    MDMike Well-Known Member

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    OK trap3, I understand about straight aways from #3 but where should the trap be set for 1 and 5? Thanks to all, Mike....
     
  18. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    I set it for hard lefts on #1 and hard rights on #5, or shoot 3-4 rounds and see where it shoots. Although it wasn't mentioned earlier, the only reason for knowing your POI is:

    1.) If your stock adjustments come loose, you can set it back to the needed POI.

    2.) You buy a new gun and you want to know if it will shoot your current POI.

    3.) Your selling a gun and the buyer wants to know where it shoots.

    4.) You just want to know.
     
  19. bigeoj

    bigeoj Member

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    My understanding of patterning a shotgun at 13yds. is to see where the gun shoots, not where you're shooting the gun. This should be done from a rest on a table. After you know where the gun shoots then you can take it to the 16yd. line and shoot straight aways and so forth to dial it in. It's certainly a process which requires a lot of back and forth. Just my 2 cents. Joe
     
  20. leadvail

    leadvail Member

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    Why not use a laser boresighter?

    Bob
     
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