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12S0 Wad Question

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by bolt-action, Jul 9, 2009.

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  1. bolt-action

    bolt-action TS Member

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    I am working up a light target load using Federal hulls and 700-X powder. The powder density is such that when loaded to the velocity I want (1160-1170 fps) that the case is not full and the crimps are dished severely when using a 12S3 wad. Claybuster Wads web site states the following for their 12S0 replacement wad:

    CB2100-12 (12S0)
    For use in 7/8 to 1-1/8 oz. trap, skeet, sporting clays or hunting loads. Performs best in straight wall cases such as Federal paper or plastic and Fiocchi.

    Optimum load is 1 oz.

    Has anyone had any experience using 12S0 wads/clones for 1 1/8 oz loads? I loaded a couple of shells with them and the crimp was perfect. I know that I could probably adjust my crimp station to improve crimps with the 12S3 wads, but I don't want to have to do this. I also load Remington and Winchester shells and they crimp perfectly just where it is at now. This is also true for Federal hulls and Green Dot powder for handicap loads. I don't want to have to adjust/re-adjust back every time to load a few of these shells.
     
  2. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    I'd give the guys at Hodgdon IMR a call and ask them.
     
  3. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Over the last 3-1/2 yrs. I have reloaded thousands of Estate, Top Gun, Walmart Federal MP and Gold medal hulls using the 12S0 (and clone) wads with 700X powder.

    I reload on a Pacific 366 and I did have to make a few adjustments to the final crimp in order to obtain a near factory crimp. Now I can switch back & forth from 1 oz. to 1-1/8 oz. without any problems and both crimps are outstanding.

    My recipes (for the above mentioned hulls):

    1 oz. - 17 grs. of 700X, Federal 209A primer, 12S0 wad (singles & both shots of doubles)

    1-18 oz. - 19.5 grs. of 700X, Federal 209A primer, 12S3 wad (handicap).

    Curt
     
  4. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    I use the same recipe as Curt for my 1oz. loads except a Win primer. On a 12S3 have you ever dropped a spent primer in the shot cup before the shot drops? That could take up the extra room. Or use a 1oz. WAA12SL or clone for 1-1/8oz. in a Federal hull. Wayne
     
  5. fishguts

    fishguts Member

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    I've used 12S0's in place of 12S3's to fill up a case to get a tight crimp many times...usually in Estates.

    WARNING***WARNING***WARNING: NEVER SUBSTITUTE COMPONENTS. FOLLOW LISTED LOADS EXACTLEY. NEVER DEVIATE..WEIGH YOU POWDER CHARGES. DO NOT USE ANY OF THE ABOVE INFORMATION IN YOUR RELOADING PROCESS. I, NOR ANYONE ASSOCIATED WITH ME, INCLUDING ALL SIBLINGS, COUSINS, AUNTS, UNCLES AND ANYONE NOT MENTIONED WILL ASSUME NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY ACTIONS TAKEN DUE TO THE ABOVE RESPONSE.

    Wayne
     
  6. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    If the load you are working with shows under 9000 PSI or so for the 12S3, you'd probably be OK with the 12S0 in place of it. The wads are nearly identical, except for the length and a few grains difference in weight. Your shot drops would probably vary more than the difference in weight. I made the same substitutions with several of the Winchester powders in order to get the right column height. Winchester and Hodgdon both said it would be fine in a moderate pressure load.
     
  7. bolt-action

    bolt-action TS Member

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    The IMR/Hodgdon Data Center shows a load at 1150 fps with the 12S3 wad and Winchester primer at 8,500 psi. My target velocity is only slightly above this, so psi should be a little less than 9,000. They also show a load using the WAA12SL which is primarily a one ounce wad. My line of thinking is as such - If a Winchester 1 ounce wad has a published load, wouldn't a Federal 1 ounce wad (designed for Federal hulls) not only work, but work better?
     
  8. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    bolt-action

    The 12S0 wad is a hard one to beat in appropriate loadings. I did some pattern testing a couple of years ago with 1oz 12S0 loads and was pleased with the results. Same for the 12S3 with 1 1/8 oz loads. If you need to adjust the column height in order to get a decent crimp, It has been customary to use the 1 oz or 1 1/8 oz versions of an otherwise identical wad to do so. The Remington TGT12 has been used in place of the Figure 8, the Winchester WAA12SL has been used in place of the WAA12, and vice versa. I don't see why you couldn't do the same with the Federal wads in reasonable loads. If you need to know for sure, assemble some and send them out for pressure and velocity testing.

    Whether or not the 12S0 wad would work better is something that pattern, pressure, and velocity testing might determine. I have had good results with Federal Wads in Federal hulls. Wads designed for tapered hulls have sometimes not worked as well for me in the straight wall hulls.
     
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