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1250 fps versus 1135 fps

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Mountainsteve, Feb 8, 2012.

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  1. Mountainsteve

    Mountainsteve Member

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    Assume your shooting at a target 40 yds. (120 ft) away. Dividing 120 ft by 1235 fps means your load will reach the target in .096 seconds. Then dividing 120 ft by 1135 fps tells you that your load will reach the target in .106 seconds. If I am doing this right that is only 1/100 of a second difference. Does that really make a difference. OK, now tear me up mathematicians and shooting experts.
     
  2. tv-todd

    tv-todd Member

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    NO! the $100.000 winner at the grand a couple years ago used 2 3/4 dram 8 from the back fence and won
     
  3. flabigpapa

    flabigpapa Well-Known Member

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    Now ..Just Do the Math.. on..How far the Target travel's from the center of your pattern,in that Time Frame, and you'll have ALL the Info. you need. You Must have Cabin Fever, see you for Clay's on Friday. Shoot Well..Shoot Often, Bart
     
  4. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    The numbers you are using are muzzle velocity. The speed in not constant. When the shot gets to the target it has slowed down. The faster the shot payload is traveling, the faster it slows down. Trap shooters do not have sufficient cranial capacity to make these calculations. HMB
     
  5. Mountainsteve

    Mountainsteve Member

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    Bart,
    Tell me the speed of the target and I will try and figure it out. I also need to do some research on HMB's advise and determine real time to target with the two muzzle velocities. Your right on the cabin fever. Just trying to excercize my brain. Hope to see you Friday.
    Steve
     
  6. flabigpapa

    flabigpapa Well-Known Member

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    Steve, with a pattern at 40"...center, Target only needs to travel 20" to be out of pattern. Target speed is a variable ..due to time of engagement...way to Many Calculations. Shoot what makes you Feel Good, Me I Like Federal Papers.
    Shoot Well...Shoot Often, Bart
     
  7. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Click the link above and save yourselves a cipherin' headache.

    Ed
     
  8. Mountainsteve

    Mountainsteve Member

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    Looked at the charts from AveragEd and considered the 40" shot pattern from Flabigpapa. Also, according to the ATA rule book targets should fly at 42 mph from the 16 yard line which is equivalent to 61.6 fps. With all those factors calculated in you should only have shoot .612 inches higher above or ahead of the target to get the same effect from a 1135 fps load as a 1250 fps load. Now, go break em with a little less felt recoil on your shoulder.
     
  9. rdf59

    rdf59 Member

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    Steve,
    I saw a wind speed indicator that you wear on your wrist. You enter your load numbers in it and your yard line and it automatically gives you the lead.

    I saw it on late night TV and I acted right away and I got two for the price of one along with 48 coat hangers and a pants steamer. I will give you the second one. I don't need one for both wrists.
     
  10. Mountainsteve

    Mountainsteve Member

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    Hey Dick,
    Just recooperating trying to avoid dimensia. By the way as the designated driver it was not in my job description to unload the machine bar from the truck. You guys owe me for getting to shoot today. I actually did do the math on this thread subject and would appreciate validation from a Princeton Alum. if you need help call our EE Gator friend Russ.
    Steve
     
  11. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Steve,

    Using the chart Ed posted, at 40 yards, if we assume all else equal (time it takes you to get on the target and pull the trigger, trigger lock time, no wind, etc.) using number 8's at a muzzle velocity of 1255 fps versus number 8's at a muzzle velocity of 1145 fps (close enough for our purposes) we see the time it takes the pellets to travel 40 yards is 0.137 seconds for the faster load, and 0.146 seconds for the slower load.

    A difference of a mere 0.009 seconds.

    If we assume the target, which leaves the machine at approximately 42 miles per hour or 62 feet per second, has slowed down due to air resistance to a speed of (conservatively) 50 feet per second (it’s probably going even slower than that), we find that the target will travel approximately 0.45 feet, or 5.4 inches in that 0.009 seconds. Not very much.

    Now, to take this into perspective, that is the 5.4 inches the target travels ALONG ITS PATH. But even for hard angle targets, it’s still going MOSTLY away from you, so the left or right component of that distance is much less, as perceived from your point of reference.

    Even the most severe right-hand targets from Station 5, or left-hand targets from Station 1 are traveling at a fairly acute angle away from you (that is, mostly "away" and not very "across.")

    At 40 yards from muzzle to target, you're looking at about a 20° angle between your gun point and the travel path of the target. Even if we conservatively calculate a more severe 30° angle between your gun point and the travel path of the target, the sine (or left-right component of the travel distance) is only half the total distance, or about 3 inches. That’s it. That’s all we’re talking about going from 1250 fps to 1145 fps.

    If you miss because of that, you were way behind the target to start with.

    And I can attest.

    I’m living in South Africa, and just about the only ammunition I can get over here is Olympic trap ammo, which is 24 grams (about 7/8 ounce) at a screaming fast 1300 fps to as high as 1500 fps muzzle velocity. Even the 28 gram (1 ounce) loads over here are 1250 to 1400 fps or more, depending on brand, and that’s what I normally use.

    But, on a couple of occasions, I have found folks who can get Federal Top Gun shells, at a much tamer 1 ounce, 1180 fps.

    Although there is a very noticeable difference in recoil, I can perceive NO difference in how much I have to lead the target to get breaks, and no difference in my scores.
     
  12. Ted K.

    Ted K. Member

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    All very interesting, and I have no quarrel with the calculated results (although I have not attempted to confirm them). But it seems possible to me that the wrong question is being addressed.

    To me, the question is whether going to the faster loads compensates for moving back from the 16 yard line. Obviously, the answer depend on how far back, but again, to me, the leads necessary to hit a target at 23 yards with a 1200 fpm load seem almost the same as the leads I need at 16 yards with 1135 fpm loads. But (continuing in this vein), the leads necessary for me to hit a target at 25-27 yards using 1235 fpm ammo (I'm thinking of Nitro 27's with 1 1/8th oz. of lead) seem greater than what I use at 16 yards with 1135 fpm ammo.

    What is the experience of other shooters? Or the calculations? I'd be very interested to know.

    Ted K.
     
  13. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Well then, why not use subsonic loads! Look at the gains that can be made!

    Someone do the math!
     
  14. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Ted,

    That is indeed a different question.

    The original poster asked the question he wanted answered.

    No flame intended, but perhaps you should start a thread with your new question, instead of hijacking this one.

    Tim
     
  15. bkt514

    bkt514 Active Member

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    The math is done using Calculus...solving two equations simultaneously. Math will not be done by me!! I like slower loads 1 oz. of 1150 fps, as the recoil is less (another math solution).
     
  16. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Big M,

    I have shot a few rounds with subsonic loads at 16 yards, and they work fine. Winchester Low-noise, low-recoil loads, 26 grams (a hair under 1 ounce) at 980 fps.

    The recoil is almost nonexistent. Feels like shooting a .410.
     
  17. scooterbum

    scooterbum Active Member

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    Ted K.,

    You're onto it.
     
  18. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I thought we were talking about 27 yd. Caps...
     
  19. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I thought we were talking about 27 yd. Caps...
     
  20. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Tim you're calculations look good.

    Steve click the link for some more info.

    Wayne
     
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