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120 percent high

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by sliverbulletexpress, Sep 29, 2011.

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  1. sliverbulletexpress

    sliverbulletexpress TS Member

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    Since I was dis-invited from Dr Longshot's thread I'll just start my own. Ok if 100 percent high puts all 100 percent of the shot above the point of aim where does the extra 20 percent of shot come from to make that 120 percent?

    Ok Ok, I do understand how it's supposed to work, just pointing out that the percentage rating is a poor system of very limited value. How could anyone guarantee 120 percent high unless they assume the choke, distance, and pattern size? They can't without assuming all those variables.

    Neil Winston is exactly correct, we should dump the percentage rating and go with inches just like we do with every other firearm. If your shotgun shoots 10 inches high at 30 yds you actually have something you can compare and work with.
     
  2. coot shooter

    coot shooter Member

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    Amen .... it can't be stated any better. POI is not measured in percentages.
     
  3. RickN

    RickN Well-Known Member

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    I've got my .220 Swift sighted 500% high @ 100 yards. Just a bit over an inch.
     
  4. skeet_man

    skeet_man Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't 120% high = 18"?
     
  5. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    My employer wants 120%. He's offering to pay for 100%.

    I told him 100% was giving him all I got. He's doing the math...
     
  6. chikeneyes

    chikeneyes TS Member

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    for you riffle shooters this is fine but in trap there are many variables that also come into play paper is just that and a moving gun changes everying speed of swing first lock time and how far you actually are moving to the target a gun can appear flat or high it should be checked on a moving target from the center post it is as much about timming as poi and adjusting to a moving target not a piece of paper leave that to the rifle shooters
     
  7. bigben

    bigben Active Member

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    Silver bullet, at 40 yds, your pattern is 30 inches of effective pellet pattern in diameter, 1/2 of that is 15 inches in trapshooting jargon a "neutral gun" , now if your bottom gun pattern starts at 3 inches ABOVE point of aim, 15 inches high is 100% 15 inches times 120% is 18 inches, and so on just as many shooters are confused with either method of explanation, it's easier for most shooters I"ve been around to comprehend the % system incinerate em!
     
  8. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

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    Bigben:

    Too many variables, gun to gun, ammo to ammo, and shooter to shooter for it to really mean anything that can be considered a standard. How does Seitz know if Dr Longshot measures patterns the same way? Does everybody have a 30" effective pattern at distance? How do we know this?

    Just sayin.
     
  9. Hap MecTweaks

    Hap MecTweaks Well-Known Member

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    RickN, that was great!!

    Using the percentage system for shotgun POIs is so outdated it isn't funny! Even using the inches thing such as saying my gun shoots 15 inches high as a selling point may be useless also. It may only shoot that high for whoever set it that high? Having high cheekbones, that same gun may only shoot a few inches high for me!! POI should be stated in inches so others can relate instead of being confused.

    One more point, when my gun is set (for me) to print my pattern 15 inches high, hardly anyone else can begin to shoot mine, way too high for most!!

    Hap
     
  10. bigben

    bigben Active Member

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    870 and Hap, it doesn"t make any difference what your facial make up is, the measurements are AWAYS with a figure 8, I can send my gun to Tom, tell him to bend it to shoot whatever, and it is perfect! Any measurements are always done with a figure 8 on THAT gun, now you know, incinerate em!
     
  11. wayneo

    wayneo Active Member

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    Rick....Thats fantasic....Hap and 870 you're right on, thats why gun fit is so important. Try shooting someone else's gun with a PFS, good luck. Bigben you could be right, but I have taken a Dremmel to center beads before, used black Sharpies, now I just ignore them.

    Wayne
     
  12. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    My understanding was the factory figures poi from the flat of the rib, not a figure 8.
     
  13. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Big Ben and 870 Ritchie Phillips of Silver Seitz and I pattern the gun the same way for your information. He and I both know inches and percentages % on POI
    He and I know the #2 1/2 rib high shooter patterns 18" inches high, and that is all that is important to us and that is 120%, so inches or percentages are known by those in the know.

    We don't care about lock time, even though the Silver Seitz has one of the fastest lock times out there.

    Gary Bryant
     
  14. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Banned User Banned TS Supporters

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    Frank Little tried my original K-80 once and didn't break a target out of 5. It shot high for him but not for me!!
     
  15. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    I can't squeeze my face down enough on my gun to get a figure 8, so what it shoots when you see a figure 8 is utterly meaningless to me.

    sliver is absolutely right.

    Tell us what your gun does, with you shooting it, center of pattern X inches high at Y yards.

    Anything else is meaningless.
     
  16. j2jake

    j2jake Well-Known Member

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    timb99, most would say your gun is not properly fit. Jake
     
  17. bigben

    bigben Active Member

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    Mark you are correct, TMB99 does not understand that should he have to alter a barrel to shoot better, the benchmark for the person altering the barrel is with a figure 8, a figure 8 with that barrel is the benchmark, every person has a little different facial structure and eye location that variable is taken out with the figure 8 i incinerate em!
     
  18. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

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    Silverbullet express, that extra 20% is above the point of aim, in other words 3 Inches higher than 100% or 3 inches higher than 15" inches.

    Gary Bryant
     
  19. timb99

    timb99 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, the gun fits fine.

    I understand perfectly well that I have a fixed rib gun (not adjustable) and if I lower my comb to see a figure 8, the gun shoots much lower than I want it to. Why would I want that?

    So, I move the comb to where it shoots where I want it to, and voila, I see a lot of rib between the beads.

    So what?

    The goal here is to adjust the gun to where it shoots where you want it to. I don't need to see a figure 8. You don't need to see a figure 8.

    If you really want a figure 8, get an adjustable rib, and fiddle with it until 1) the gun shoots where you want and 2) you see the figure 8.

    If you have barrel work done (and I don't need barrel work) and your barrel comes back and doesn't shoot where it used to shoot, move the comb until it does!
     
  20. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Six, not three is the accepted number, Gary, I think. But it's not true, of course, since you can only get all the pellets above the point of aim, and that's 100%. That is just one of many reasons that "inches" is the way to talk about all this, not "percent."

    And even the accepted standard of three-inch equaling ten percent is all wrong too. A three-inch rise from flat to three inch high moves a lot of pellets in the hot part of the pattern and so that's 65% or so, while a three-inch rise from 12 to 15 inches moves hardly any at all, since patterns are not only circular (so you are moving a narrow-in-width band of pellets called a "segment" in circle-talk) and the pattern is thinly populated with pellets at the periphery as well.

    I really think it's about time you began to look for a gun which shoots 20 or whatever inches high and talk about in that way. Then we can all agree where you have it shooting.

    Neil
     
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