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1187 question

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by Brian in Oregon, Mar 18, 2007.

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  1. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Believe is or not, the comb height on the straight comb stock and the monte carlo are almost exactly the same. The difference is the drop at the heel. The straight comb stock has no drop, whereas the monte carlo does drop. It's an optical illusion when you look at photos of the stocks that the monte carlo comb is higher.<br>
    <br>
    As far as the buttstock goes, you can buy a monte carlo trap stock from Remington, but they are around $192. Remington does make a plain walnut 1187 monte carlo slug gun stock that is very close in dimensions to the trap stock. It's $98. You can find used trap stocks a lot cheaper here on this very board. Post a WTB ad. If you want the best solution, spend a bit more and get one with an adjustable comb. Keep in mind your shooting eye will in effect be the rear sight, and the comb is how you adjust the "rear sight" (your eye). This makes the comb very important to proper alignment of you and the gun and the target. If you spend a bit more now and get a stock with an adjustable comb, you'll be better off in the long run. Depending on the condition of the stock, and adjustable comb can add $50 to $150 to the price of the stock. Also keep in mind that 1100 buttstocks are fully interchangable with 1187 buttstocks. Many 1100 stocks, though, have pressed checkering, not cut checkering. If that's an issue, make sure to ask before you buy.<br>
    <br>
    Few 1100 and 1187 forends interchange. For the novice Rem gas auto owner, don't attempt it. Stick to the same forend as your gun model is. (One exception are the universal synthetic stocks.)<br>
    <br>
    There is no difference in a field and trap 1187 receiver except for the finish and what's marked on it. There is a lot of difference in the barrels. Standard and light contour field barrels are pressure compensated, so they will handle light field loads to heavy magnum loads and even slugs and buckshot. The target barrels (trap and skeet) are not pressure compensated. They will cycle even lighter loads than the field barrels, but can cause damage to the receiver if you exceed the recommended maximum, which is just a bit more than a heavy trap load. A major difference with the 1187 trap barrel is that it not only has the step rib you mentioned, but that it is factory backbored. The bore is larger in diameter, so that the shot gets squeezed less harshly when going through the choke tubes, even though you still are using, say, a choke that gives a full pattern. The Super Full choke tube that comes with this barrel gives the same pattern as an Extra Full Turkey Choke, but with less distortion to the pellets, giving better patterning. These barrels have been out of production, but are worthwhile investments. However, they make poor sporting clays barrels, because you cannot open the pattern beyond a light modified, and they are heavy. So for sporting clays, I switch to my light contour field barrel.<br>
    <br>
    I started out with an 1187 Premier field gun with a 28" light contour barrel. Sounds pretty much what you are doing. Then I added trap stocks I bought from a trapshooter on this website. Later I bought the 1187 step rib, backbored trap barrel from another gentleman on this website. I will never go back to a field busttock, though. I have even installed monte carlo buttstocks on all my other 1187's, including camo field guns, so that they all maintain the same POI (Point Of Impact).
     
  2. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    BTW, if the idea of fitting a stock to you leaves you scratching your head, or you're not sure what to do with an adjustable comb, you might purchase a booklet called "Stock Fitting Secrets" from Rollin, who posts ads for it on this site. It's one of the better guides for explaining what each part of a shotgun stock is, and how changing the dimensions of that part of the stock changes the fit, alignment and POI of the gun, along with how how it affects felt recoil.
     
  3. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The Remington 870, 1100 and 1187 shotguns with field stocks ARE very flat shooting.<br>
    <br>
    If a gun has a neutral or "flat" POI, we say that it is shooting 50/50. That is, 50% of the circular pattern is above the bead, and 50% is below the bead. the center of the pattern and the bead coincide.<br>
    <br>
    The worst pattern is 40/60. Most of the pattern is below the bead. And some individuals find Remington field stocks to shoot this way, because their eye is so low.<br>
    <br>
    If you install a target shotgun stock, be it a straight comb or monte carlo, you'll find the patterning on these Remington models will generally raise to 60/40. That's a good pattern for all around use. At most ranges it puts the target just above the bead. This is also a good pattern for sporting clays. (I don't know about skeet, whether 60/40 or 50/50 is more desirable.)<br>
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    To get a higher pattern, you have to go with an adjustable comb, or a greatly raised solid comb. Some trap shooters like 70/30 or even 80/20. A handful even like 90/10 or 100/0. This permits them to hold the gun pretty much level and not have to raise it, but simply move left or right. I've tried a 70/30, and because I don't exclusively shoot trap, it's just not my cup of tea. I can see it's advantages for handicap trap (which is shooting from longer yardages).<br>
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    Another issue is the second bead on the barrel. They are there so you can "stack" them, forming a figure 8. This is important if the stock does not fit you. A field stock almost always requires the shooter to check these beads for proper stacking.<br>
    <br>
    With a stock that properly fits you, like most straight or monte carlo stocks do (or at least do a much better job), you find that you don't need the second bead. I never use mine anymore. Some people will blacken it or remove it.<br>
    <br>
    For sporting clays, I could not start with low gun (gun held near the waist and then raised into shooting position) with a field stock. I had to premount the gun and make sure the beads were in alignment. With a monte carlo trap stock, I found that I could easily start with low gun and snap the gun into position consistently.<br>
    <br>
    The trick is knowing which kind of stock fits you best - straight comb or monte carlo comb. This is why some stocks, in addition to an adjustable comb, also have adjustable buttplates. That's the ultimate option for the 1187, but an adjustable buttplate can always be added later. The most important thing in my opinion is the comb, and the adjustable comb is worth the extra money.<br>
    <br>
    As far as the statement above that "most field guns (as opposed to trap guns) will not stand up to thousands of rounds through them a year", that's baloney when talking about the 1100 and 1187. The receivers of the field and trap versions are exactly the same, and in fact, the field guns tap off LESS gas to cycle the action as compared to trap guns. A trap barrel will actually cycle the action a little bit harder than a field barrel with light loads.
     
  4. biggreen

    biggreen TS Member

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    Jan 29, 1998
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    134
    Brian,

    changing the main subject but.....

    1. Why would one want to hold the gun at waist level if not shooting international skeet?
    2. Why would one want to "snap the gun into position?

    Sounds like the gun is still being pre-mounted but very fast after target release instead of before calling for the bird. The mount speed should aways vary with the speed and angle of the target
     
  5. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Sportings clays starts with the gun at low position, just like skeet. I haven't kept up on the most recent rules, but that at least was the rule.<br>
    <br>
    By "snap" the gun into position, I find I'm more consistent with any gun when I "snap" it into position. I do this with many rifles as well, particualrly lever guns. If you want to see a good but exaggerated version of "snapping" a gun into position, watch Jimmy Stewart in "Winchester '73". Looks hokey Hollywood, but it works for *some* people. I don't change my mount speed. It's the same from low gun. If there is an advantage to varying the mount speed, I haven't found it. As for premounting the gun, I only do that for trap (though once in a blue moon I have premounted for an unusual sporting clays presentation I'm having problems with, and only until I figure it out).
     
  6. biggreen

    biggreen TS Member

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    Premounting has been allowed for I guess 5-6 years maybe. Even when it was not allowed it was not required to be at the waist.
    Actually you are performing a type of premounting the gun. It will seem to work better for those who dont have a good practiced mount. Trying to really shoot low gun does not happen overnight and requires quite a bit of practice as well as thousands of practice drills. That's why you have seen better sucess with the snap premount. This form also allows you a good view of the target unlike a standard premounted gun.
    Many are now "half-mounting" the gun by having it ompletely shouldered but taking the head all the way off the stock to call for the bird. That one does not work well for me because I never preactice it.
    Regards and thanks for the reply.
    Keep those Remington's smoking targets!
     
  7. rjdden

    rjdden TS Member

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    317
    jbmou: I dont believe you know the Remington wheather it be the 870 or the 1100 fieldgrades. Before I got sick and had to drop out of shooting I had an 870 with over 42,000 rounds through it and no smithy work done on it what so ever. I also had an 1100 in which I used for some 16's and doubles and some Skeet, It had over 22,000 rounds through it. It never seen the inside of a smithies work shop. Both guns were used fairly heavy as you can see for Trap and for hunting. At the end of hunting season they both went down for a complete field strip cleaning. Parts were looked over and everything went back together. The same at the end of Trap season. I lived at that time in Ill. I had just gone from class C to class B in 16's. And not long after that I was pushed back to the 24 yrd. Ln. from the 23. 1 full yard, not a half yard either. All of this with both fieldgrade Remington shot guns. The only thing I did to the two of them was add the center post on the V.R. Barrels. Also I added the big head L.H. safetys. I am left handed. I used a catcher for the 1100 when I shot it at 16's and a slip on deflector for the doubles. I was in class C on doubles. Had some problems with shooting doubles but got them worked out and was ready to hit those hard then I got sick. But to say that the 1100 fieldgrade isn't strong enough for heavy trap use is not correct. And it was not 3" chambered nor even 3 1/2". It and the 870 Wingmaster were 2 3/4" only. And I believe that there are a lot of shooters out there who just might agree with me on this. I kept a small zippered bag of extra parts like firing pins and springs for both and seals for the 1100. Never and I say, Never had to use any of these items in the years I owned and shot these two guns. The 870 I had a plain barrel and used it as my hunting gun. I almost forgot the the barrels were modified choke 28 inches long including hunting barrel. When I sold both guns the parts went with. Still in the small zipper bag I put them in when I bought them. I have just here in the last three months started to put together basicly similar make and model guns I used then. I have the 870 with a plain barrel and a V.R.Barrel on it's way. Both are Modified and 28". Will be looking for an 1100 here sometime soon. The V.R.'s will get the center post and they both will get the large headed safety for Lefties. The only difference in shooting them is I will be shooting from a Wheel Chair instead of standing. Rich. (inPeoria,Az.)
     
  8. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    good web site for rem parts call them web site is not current
     
  9. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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    this is also good. I got some good deals on USED stocks. dings and dents, great for learning and adjusting.
     
  10. jnoemanh

    jnoemanh TS Member

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    You can easily spend $10-20K for a beautiful trap gun, and if you get a Perazzi or Krieghoff, it will be a fine piece of workmanship indeed. You can also buy a brand-spanking-new Rem 1100 or 11-87 for well under $1000. It won't be as beautiful, but if you do your part, it'll smash targets just fine, and it'll last a long time.

    I like beautiful guns...but...when it comes to shooting the scores, it's never the gun.
     
  11. maclellan1911

    maclellan1911 TS Member

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