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1187 premier trap help with recoil reduction

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Woody and my m97, Sep 3, 2009.

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  1. Woody and my m97

    Woody and my m97 TS Member

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    Hi everyone, Thanks for taking the time here... I am new to TS and from what I have seen here is this is a pretty stand up forum..

    OK, OK, I am returning to Shotgunning and am trying to learn Trap shooting after having a torn Rotator Cuff repaired just under 2 years. Yeah, that wonderful surgery so many of us seem to have to go through at sometime or another.
    I have been shooting my Winchester M97, yeah a shotgun with a hammer :) Ok, I finally broke down and bought a trap shotgun, a Remington 1187 Premier trap. Gas Operated :) I still need some help with the recoil though as I am trying to shoot a couple of rounds of trap a week... What is everyone doing managing recoil, and has anyone set up an 1187?

    Mercury filled tubes? Gracoil systems? this is all as new to me as shooting an auto.. I am 46 years old, and live with a budget so living with in my meens is important to me. Anyone have any ideas?

    Thanks so much everyone,

    Woody :)
     
  2. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    get a good adjustable stock,and a release trigger, use all the rest of the money you can get your hands on to shoot as many rounds as possible....1 oz. will help with the recoil.


    tony
     
  3. Ruck

    Ruck Well-Known Member

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    Go to my website and check out the Auto-Buster system....the recoil reducer designed with the gas autoloader in mind. Thanks!

    Ken Rucker
     
  4. School Teacher

    School Teacher Well-Known Member

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    I shoot an 11/87 Premier Trap. With 1 oz. loads at 1150 fps (my reload) or at 1180 fps (factory 2 3/4 dram 1 oz. load) recoil is very light.

    Ed Ward
     
  5. Woody and my m97

    Woody and my m97 TS Member

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    Thanks everyone,

    Ed I have been shooting Federal 1oz no.8 shot with a factory fps 1290. I will be looking in to this more thanks. Tony, a release triger? This is very new to me, I will look in to this along with an adjustable stock. Thanks..

    Ken, Thanks for your help aswell. I look forward to your help. I live in Wisconsin and trap is going to be slowing down here in the coming months. We will be talking.

    Woody
     
  6. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    The Federal 1oz at 1290 will thump a bit. Try to find or reload some down under 1200 fps for a 1oz load. You'll feel a difference. I load some 1oz at 1150 or so and they still function the gaspipe, but are light on recoil. Even 1 1/8 oz at 1090 or so might do the trick while keeping the recoil manageable. There are still a bunch of "light" factory loadings. Unfortunately, some won't work the action all that reliably. Don't buy too many until you try some out. I shoot an almost box-stock classic trap. I've seen a lot of modifications, but don't feel the need to try any in mine. It's not bad just as it is. I've had multiple shoulder surgeries, including rotator cuff surgeries on both shoulders. I have a few irreparable issues, so I know the recoil issue well. Reloading allows me to customize the load to my needs. Unfortunately, adding weight to the gun is not an option for me, since my left arm does not have the strength needed to support it.
     
  7. AveragEd

    AveragEd Well-Known Member

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    Quack, you can hang weight in that 1100 and still hoist it around comfortably - or even MORE comfortably - if you put it in the stock as it will add weight while making the front of the gun feel lighter. Some lead bar stock or Mallory Metal (REAL dense stuff machine shops use to balance crankshafts) will work wonders. My shoulders, my 1100 and I speak from experience.

    Below is a photo of my 1100's stock - it weighs 20 ounces more than it did before all the internal and external mods were done.

    Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  8. KENENT1

    KENENT1 Active Member

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    the release trigger was just a suggestion, for a modification that may help with higher scores. if one is sensitive to recoil, they usually develop a flinch.


    a well fitting stock, and 1 oz. loads through a gas auto, maybe all a guy on a "budget" needs.


    tony
     
  9. jm1079

    jm1079 Well-Known Member

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    I have an 11-87 premier just like yours, that I installed a pre-fit Kick-eez recoil pad, and shoot 7/8 oz loads (1250 fps). This combination really makes for a very soft shooting gun. FWIW. jm
     
  10. Kerry

    Kerry TS Member

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    I would suggest a good Kick-Ez pad and then try the lightest loads I could find that will still operate the gun. I have several 11-87s that all cycle 7/8 oz. loads reliably. If you still more help with recoil try mercury recoil reducers and get a forend weight. I had a friend make me one out of solid steel threaded on one end so that a screw could be used to attach it to the existing forend cap. All you need to do is drill a hole in the cap.
     
  11. Easystreet

    Easystreet Well-Known Member

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    If you're just shooting 16 yard singles or handicap, it doesn't matter whether the load will fully cycle the action or not. Load 'em as light as you like.

    Easystreet
     
  12. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Cast two lead weights the same size as a 12 guage shell, appoximate weight 8 oz each. Place one weight in the butt stock and one weight in the magazine tube infront of the spring. Total cost $1.00.

    This will reduce recoil and keep the balance of the gun the same. HMB
     
  13. Woody and my m97

    Woody and my m97 TS Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I have to thank you all. I am certanly going to look in to lighter and slower shells, and yes Tony, the guys I shoot with have said the same thing. They wonder if I am flinching a little. Over the winter months I am going to be looking in to a release triger. Any sugestions of manufacture ?

    Quack, Thanks for your input... I have had two surgerys on my right shoulder and that has left my left shoulder over worked and very soar. So yes, as silly as it sounds managing my recoil even with a gas operated auto is significant.

    Ed, thats very interesting. Adding the weight in the but stock, I have seen guys add a little to the fore stock to help with swing follow through. Now if I understand you correctly, you added weight in your but stock aswell, as your fore stock. for the balance.

    I sure want to thank everyone, this just proves what I had thought before, this is a great forum...

    Woody..
     
  14. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It is also possible to drill the gas ports oversize so light shells will cycle. I have an 1100 set up this way. Drawback - heavier trap loads will impart too much velocity to the bolt.
     
  15. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Ed,

    I've tried the weight in the buttstock routine. It's a lot for my right arm to handle for more than a couple of rounds. My left arm is useless, except to help the right steady the gun a bit. I've got a new break open that has some promise. A few modifications and load adjustments should get me where I want to be with it. I just need to get off my butt and get a fresh supply of AALite and get some loads developed. The recoil isn't the biggest issue for me. It's the weight of the gun. Cutting the recoil makes it a bit easier to control and is less fatiguing.
     
  16. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Quack Shot, maybe you've read it before here, but I had a pinched nerve that caused me to lose most of my strength in my left arm for quite a while. It's still not as strong as my right arm, as there is some permanent damage. At its worst, I found it difficult to hold up my 1187 trap gun for lengthy periods.<br>
    <br>
    My solution was to make a lighter trap gun out of my 20ga 1187 Premier field gun.<br>
    <br>
    The only real modification was to take a walnut 1187 12ga monte carlo buttstock, which is almost dimensionally the same as a trap stock, and reduce the tenon size so it fit the back of the smaller 20ga receiver. The width of the two receivers are about the same. The only real difference is where the top of the wood meets the top of the receiver. The wood does stand up a little bit. It can be sanded down, but it really isn't noticeable except up close, so I left it alone.<br>
    <br>
    The result is that I have a 7/8ths scale trap gun that weighs significantly less than the 12ga trap gun, yet still feels similar, and points the same. It does move faster, but my score, after a day of practice, is the same. I can shoot this gun all day long without fatiguing my left arm.<br>
    <br>
    Another benefit is that it will cycle cheap Mao Mart 20ga promo loads, which are 7/8 ounce and 2-1/2 drams. That's less than the lightest load an unmodified 1187 or 1100 trap gun will cycle. Recoil is very, very low.<br>
    <br>
    I don't use it much for trap now that most of my strength has returned. But I used it a fair amount for sporting clays.
     
  17. Sigraph

    Sigraph TS Member

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    The 1187 should be one of the softer shooting trap guns you can buy in stock form. I bet after you shoot a little longer you won't notice the recoil. If you have the forcing cone lenghtened it will reduce the recoil and shouldn't cost much. I lenghtened the forcing cone on my 1100 trap and EDM ported the barrel and it felt like shooting a BB gun. BUT, I did used to shoot about 400 rounds a week. The 1187 may even come with a longer cone in the trap version. I've been away from trapshooting for about 15 years. I'd hate to add weight if I were you, you still have to lift and hold the gun 100 times during an event, 200 times if you shoot singles and handicap.
     
  18. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Brian in Oregon

    I have the nerve impingement issues and severed tendons on top of it. I do remember you posting some of your troubles with your arm. The nerves may eventually be partially resolved with another surgery, but the loss of the tendons is the big problem. I have no strength in order to lift the arm. I can feel the muscles move, but they aren't connected to anything that helps move the arm. Two surgeons have told me there is no real fix for it. The right arm is weak, but strong enough to do what I need it to do. I've tried many different guns and the Classic Trap with the Target Weight Barrel was light enough for me to continue shooting. It does get heavy after two rounds and quite a problem after 100 shots or so. I've thought about the 20ga solution and would consider it if I could find a decent LT for a reasonable price. I have collected enough hulls to load for it. That said, I still think a 12ga would not be a problem, since recoil is not as big an issue for me yet. It does wear you down with the heavier loads, but I have come up with several lighter loads that work fine. My biggest obstacle is gun weight. I may have that solved, but with lower weight, comes increased recoil. I'm working on a single barrel project that holds promise. I can actually hold and shoot the lighter gun with only my right arm, so the left arm is just there for the ride. Looks like a Gra-Coil or similar device might be the eventual solution there, plus a lot of practice. Unfortunately, a single barrel won't do for doubles, so the 1100 will probably get some use for that venue. I had considered a light 20ga O/U, but I don't shoot enough doubles to make it a priority yet.

    It just sucks when that 50 year 500,000 mile warranty expires. Everything seems to fall apart after that. :) At least the new hip and the addition of some new "bling" in the C-Spine has kept me upright.
     
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