1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

1187 Parallel Target

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by dmarbell, Apr 21, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,572
    I took a skeet lesson yesterday. We patterned my 1187 Sporting Clays at 13 yards or so, and it's shooting mighty low, probably 40/60 or worse (we didn't count, just eyeballed). I need to raise the comb. But as I've stated here and on THR.com, I have a longish, pencil-neck.

    My choices include adding an adjustable comb to the existing stock, getting a different stock, or getting a different gun. Let me state for the record that I really like this gun, just not the way it fits me. It has not failed to cycle once in something over 500 rounds, including mostly 7/8 oz. target reloads.

    I like the idea of a parallel comb, one gun for SC, skeet and trap, perhaps. I'm considering 391 Parallel Target as a replacement.

    If I add adjustable comb to the existing stock, I can't get the comb to parallel, though, right?

    If I get a new stock set, how do I make sure it will be a parallel comb? Is this definitely a job for a smithy? Are MC stocks parallel, or can they be? A trap MC stock should be parallel, but would it then be ok for skeet and SC? Is it worth spending $1,300+ for a Precision Fit stock for a $650 gun?

    Danny

    P.S. Anybody want to trade a 391 PT for a Nickel Plated 1187 Sporting Clays with 4 Rem extended chokes (made by Briley) and adjustable butt pad?
     
  2. Woodstock

    Woodstock TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    CT
    Danny, FWIW, I owned a beautiful 1100 Sptg 12 with a Graco Adj Butt Plate. I loved the gun, but, like yours, it shot low for me. I then purchased a 391 Parallel w/ 28" barrel. The PT is a much better fit for me and my scores have increased steadily since I made it my goto gun. I ended up selling my 1100 even though I loved the gun. No point in having it collect dust. My advice would be to locate a PT that you can try for a day to see how it fits. Putting a lot of money into your Remington is okay if you can make the modifications work for you, however, it will be "lost" money. Depends on how deep your pcokets are....

    David
     
  3. superxjeff

    superxjeff Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,781
    I am with david on this one. Sell the gun and move on. How do you shoot thegun? You say the impact is low but that you eye balled it? did you also fire it from the shoulder rather then from sand bags? 13 yards is pretty close for a shoulder shot. In short my question to you is how well do you shoot thegun? Are you shooting the bottoms out of most targets? Do you hit targets hard the way it is now? They do not make a PFS for an 11-87/1100 so that isn;t an option. Jeff
     
  4. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,572
    One development. My local SC range has a 391 parallel target for rent. That way I can at least shoot five-stand and SC to see how it fits, out of the box.

    How do the measurements of the 391 PT stock differ from the 391 Trap models? If the only difference is the drop at the comb (and butt), then those can be adjusted easily with pads for comb (or adj comb) and adjustable butt pad. Am I on the right track?

    Bear with me, I'm not yet ready for custom fit guns.

    Danny
     
  5. jimx200

    jimx200 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    623
    Danny, I have a 391 Parallel and while it's great for trap, not so good for sporting clays, even adjusted down. The gun's POI (point of impact) is just too high for those sp. clay/skeet targets where you are shooting under them due to drop or the target that is thrown below you. The comb height of a Remington trap stock is the SAME on a Monte Carlo and straight trap. The MC has MORE drop at heel, while the straight trap stock has less drop at heel. Your solution is to find a straight trap stock and pattern for POI. If you then want to go higher, have an adjustable comb added which usually run $150-$200. I have heard excellent feedback on Ken Rucker's work. I would try a different stock before going the 391 route. FYI, my 391 has been back to Beretta 3 times for warranty repair...nice guns, but my 1100's/11-87's have NEVER given me a problem. Good luck
     
  6. bigclown

    bigclown TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    510
    Danny, pay close attention to what jimx wrote. You can find 1187 trap stocks - MC or straight - fairly easily...Check numricharms.com or look for used ones. I had a 391 PT as jimx did and it shot very high, not to mention lots of feeding and other problems (Beretta has now come out with a 391-2 because of several problems.) The fellow I sold it to is an All-American skeet shooter and he sold it a few weeks after he bought it from me...same problems, but we are still friends. If you look around you see lots of used 391s for sale...others have their issues with them. Finding a trap stock will be lots cheaper than a $1,000 391 PT. Best Regards, Ed
     
  7. blowin smoke

    blowin smoke TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    127
    Danny, if I am reading your question correctly, I think you can make an adjustable comb parallel with your stock by simply adding an extra washer/ spacer in the rear comb adjustment. It obviously won't be the same fit as a PT but if you like the gun it may be worth a try.

    I have somehow acquired 3 Beretta PT's. One shoots about as close to 50/50 as I could imagine, and the other two are about 60/40. Apparently some must have a feeding problem associated with the flat type shell carrier assembly (easily fixed), but I can only recall one cycling problem in about 30,000 rounds or so in mine. I have nicer guns, but just seem to shoot the PT's better. (BTW, I have shot one right after the other and do not notice the slight difference in POI unless you let it get in your head and start thinking about it.)

    Mike in VA
     
  8. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    Don't sell your sporting clays 1187. It's a nice gun, and will in all likelyhood never be made again by Remington.<br>
    <br>
    Just put a WTB ad thread on this site for a monte carlo trap stock and be done with it. Use it for sporting clays, skeet and trap. It raised my POI from just under 50/50 to 60/40 on my 28" 1187.<br>
    <br>
    Note that the straight comb trap stock has the comb at the same height as the monte carlo. The difference is that the buttplate drops down on the monte carlo, and doesn't on the straight comb trap stock. With your long neck, you probably should get the monte carlo because it puts more distance between your shoulder and cheek. Both of these stocks shoot to the same POI because the combs are in the same place. But the straight comb is better for short necks, and the monte carlo is better for long necks.
     
  9. cmptrwz1

    cmptrwz1 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    165
    The 11-87 is not know to shot that low the frist thing I would look at is your chokes that gun was know to come from the factory with bad chokes all the people I know who had that gun including my self had trouble with the patterns to low to high off to the left off to the right or to loose and we all through out the chokes and went to after market extend ones and that took care of the problems if you go to a trap stock your looking at a 60/40 or a 70/30 point of inpack and there is not that much of a different between the two stocks if you look up remington spec for the your stock or the trap you will see what I'm saying look to your factor choke thay were junk!!
     
  10. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,419
    Test it with a one oz. load. You might find it will be right on. HMB
     
  11. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    cmptrwz1, quote: "The 11-87 is not know to shot that low the frist thing I would look at is your chokes that gun was know to come from the factory with bad chokes all the people I know who had that gun including my self had trouble with the patterns to low to high off to the left off to the right or to loose and we all through out the chokes and went to after market extend ones and that took care of the problems if you go to a trap stock your looking at a 60/40 or a 70/30 point of inpack and there is not that much of a different between the two stocks if you look up remington spec for the your stock or the trap you will see what I'm saying look to your factor choke thay were junk!!"<br>
    <br>
    Factially in error.<br>
    <br>
    First, the problem is not with the choke tubes themselves, but rather with how the muzzle end of the barrel was bored and threaded for the choke tubes. The equipment that did this was imprecise and possible worn out. This resulted in choke tubes being crooked to the bore, but it was the barrel itself that was bad. Remington invested, it is said, over a million dollars in new machinery to correct this problem.<br>
    <br>
    Secondly, by the time Remington made the sporting clays 1187, the new equipment was already in use.<br>
    <br>
    Third, the crooked installation of the choke tubes did not show up often as being off only in elevation. When the problem occured, the choke tube was almost always misaligned so that the POI was to the right or left of where it should be.<br.
    <br>
    Fourth, there can be quite a bit of difference in POI between a sporting clays stock and a parallel comb trap stock, either straight or monte carlo. The sporting clays stock is sloped, so the POI changes depending on where your face is welded to the comb. The further back it is, the lower the POI.<br>
    <br>
    Fifth, the 1187 is indeed known to be a very flat shooter, even a 40/60 shooter, with a low rib and a field stock, for many people. Skeet shooters have said it's actually beneficial for them, though it isn't for sporting clays and trap shooters.
     
  12. biggreen

    biggreen TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    134
    "Secondly, by the time Remington made the sporting clays 1187, the new equipment was already in use"


    The 1187 sporting was made from '92 to '99. The nickel from '97 to '99.
    I had a nickel sporting that shot low from choke thread misalignment in the barrel (0/100). Remington replaced it. They dont have anymore 11-87 target barrels in light contour though.
     
  13. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    Biggreen, I should have specified "nickeled receiver sporting clays". Thanks for the catch. Your experience should not have happened, unless your barrel was from old stock. In that case, it shows that it's possible for someone to have gotten a bad barrel after the time the new barrel choke machinery was in place. This is something I had not considered.
     
  14. biggreen

    biggreen TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    134
    Brian,
    Maybe I did not catch it but what was the date of machine replacement you are speaking of?
    thanks
     
  15. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    1996, or so I was told by a Remington repair center.
     
  16. Tom Strunk

    Tom Strunk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    Payson, Arizona
    Just go down to a drugstore and buy some moleskin, I believe they come in 4inch x 6inch pieces. Cut one into a 2inch x 6inch strip and place it on the comb, the center being where you place your face on the stock. This will raise the comb approx. 1/8 inch. Now shoot the gun and see what the results are. Now try another piece on top of the other piece and shoot it again, this means the comb will be raised approx. 1/4 inch. Be honest with your self, did one piece work better than two or not? After you have decided how you break the targets the best, one or two pieces, adjust the moleskin as needed, then go shoot it on paper and see where it shoots.

    Now if you would like to keep the gun you have a few choices. First is to take to a stock man and have him measure from the rib down to the moleskin and record this measurement. Now remove the moleskin and remove the stock, the stocks tang will need to be bent up ( this is the extention from the receiver that houses the bolt return spring ) Now the stock will need to be angle enleted so this stock lines up properly with the back of the receiver. Now reinstall the stock and refer to the measurements previously recorded. Adjust until it is as needed. You can raise, lower or cast on or off the stock with this method, Approx. cost $100.00. I have done this many times in the past.

    Second choice is to leave the moleskin on the gun and do nothing else, approx. cost $ 5.00.

    Third choice is to get a Meadows Industries comb adjustment kit, they have velcro that is placed on the sides of the stock and they have various thickness spacers you can install under the wrap around comb cover. Cost approx. $ 15.00.

    You could also add bondo to the stock to raise it and then paint the stock. This way you make your own monte carlo. Ray Stafford has done this many times to his Perazzi's.

    If you feel you need a parallel comb the next choice is to take the recorded measurement to a gunsmith that hopefully is a Remington warranty station. He should have a few monte carlo stocks on hand. Pay him to install a few on your gun before buying one that you like. Approx. cost $300.00 The biggest possible problem here is that you might have to remove wood from the comb and refinish the stock to get the comb where you want it, if this is done the cost will go up again approx. another $ 200.00.

    Next choice is to have an adjustable comb made on the monte carlo stock. Just be sure it will go down enough when completed as trap stocks will be higher than your current stock.

    Briley will also make offset chokes for your barrel, then no stock work would be needed. Talk to them they will work with you.

    Although I personally pefer a parallel comb, almost none of the top sporting clay shooters in the world use one. Digweed, Faulk, Scott Robertson to name but a few.

    Hope these ideas help you.

    Tom Strunk
     
  17. cmptrwz1

    cmptrwz1 TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    165
    Good going BRIAN once againt someone always like to trash someone trying to help a fellow shooter with a problem how many 11-87 do you owen also you for got to tell everyone about the recall that remington had on there hole line of barrle that were bad and were blowing up.Nice to help you out if you had a problem (NOT).
     
  18. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    25,238
    Location:
    Deplorable Bitter Clinger in Liberal La La Land
    cmptrwz1, quote: "Good going BRIAN once againt someone always like to trash someone trying to help a fellow shooter with a problem how many 11-87 do you owen also you for got to tell everyone about the recall that remington had on there hole line of barrle that were bad and were blowing up.Nice to help you out if you had a problem (NOT)."<br>
    <br.
    Please, do tell us all about the "whole line of barrle that were bad and were blowing up". Let's see how much you really know about that issue.
     
  19. dmarbell

    dmarbell Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,572
    I added a 1/4" "Cheek Eez" rubber pad to the comb. This should raise my POI by several inches at skeet ranges, based on rules of thumb measurements.

    Next question is why couldn't someone make a wedge-shaped pad for the thing that would make the comb parallel? Sheets of moleskin overlapped and offset by 1/4 inch towards the butt plate for each sheet. Anyone tried something like this?

    Danny
     
  20. jimbob

    jimbob TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    655
    If any of you have a spare forend for the 1187 SC, I am looking for a spare. The wood on my SC nickel is too nice to get banged up on the clays cart. Thanks.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Search tags for this page

1187 raised comb wood

,

1187 shoots low up close and high at a distance