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1187 Function - Again

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by tudurgs, Feb 5, 2012.

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  1. tudurgs

    tudurgs Member

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    I postd a question a couple of weeks ago about my grandson's 11-87 12 gauge.

    OK. The rest of the story. Had the gun cleaned and tuned by a Remington 'smith. After 150 shells, the gun would not cycle. Tearing the gun down, the magazine tube is gummed up in various locations along the tube - clean, then gummy, clean then gummy. The gummy sections are inhibiting the cycling. Shells which caused the gumming up are Federal TopGun Pink Ladies' Cancer shells. Has anyone had experience with these shells? They are 2 3/4 dram 1 1/8 oz shot.

    My grandson is on the verge of becoming a pretty good shot, but this experience is playing with his head.

    Thanks,

    John
     
  2. SevenMaryThree

    SevenMaryThree Member

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    I'm going to take a WAG and say whatever lube you're using is either not compatible for use there or being used in insufficient quantity.

    Try a light oil like the Beretta oil or Kroil and use enough of it to keep the carbon in liquid suspension.

    But first clean and degrease that magazine tube before applying the new stuff.
     
  3. shotgun 1

    shotgun 1 Member

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    Shoot it wet. Put some Break Free or FP10, a cleaner lubricant, on the mag tube to keep the firing residue from gunking up. When you're done shooting, the gunk will wipe right off, reapply and you are ready to go again.

    You might want to check the inside of the magazine tube as well. If residue builds up there, it can eventually hamper functioning.

    Dave
     
  4. Setterman

    Setterman Well-Known Member

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    Don't use any oil in the magazine tube. No need to. Once or twice a year clean it but don't oil it.
     
  5. tudurgs

    tudurgs Member

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    When I bought the gun, I don't think it had a box of shells thru it. It functioned fine for the first 500-1000 shells, now, it gunks up after 100-150 shells I always shot my 1100's dry on the mag tube. Are the 11-87's supposed to be different? I'm beginning to think that cheap shells may be the culprit
     
  6. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Shoot it wet with Break Free. HMB
     
  7. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Remington says to shoot the gas system dry. This can be done, but, the carbon deposits wind up being crusty and hard, and are a PITA to get off.

    Putting a generous coating of Break Free (I prefer spay in the winter and liquid in the summer) keeps the fouling soft, and easy to remove. Most of it will simply wipe off.

    The amount applied should not be to the point where it drips. The liquid is easier to apply correctly, because your pour a line of it onto the mag tube and rub it on with your finger. The inside of the gas chamber (incorrectly called the barrel hanger) and the rings get coated too. I also put some on the inside of the action sleeve, the cylinder that moves over the mag tube. Makes it easier to clean as well.

    Since the gun is malfunctioning, let's look at some issues. It was initially neglected too much before being cleaned. Don't shoot 1000 rounds through an 1187 before cleaning it. You're just making more work for yourself and it may well malfunction when you need it. Depending on how dirty the powder is, I clean mine between 400 and 600 rounds for trap loads. And guns I depend on for hunting predators get cleaned after 50 rounds or less. (It's not a good thing to have a gun jam when you have a coyote run up on you while pretending to be their food at night.)

    The gas ports may be clogged. The 1187 has four gas ports. Two are in the center and enter into the barrel. These are the ones that need to be cleaned. You did not mention barrel length, so I'll assume it is either a 26" barrel or a 28" barrel. The gas ports on a 26" barrel are .1160" - use a #32 drill bit to clean. A 28" barrel has .1100" gas ports - use a #35 drill bit to clean. DO NOT REMOVE METAL, only carbon. The outside two ports are under a flat spring. They are designed to blow off excess gas when magnum shells are used. Don't worry about them unless you've repeatedly removed that spring and fatigued it.

    The gas rings, either the two separate rings or the two interlocking rings, have gaps in them. These gaps must be 180 degrees apart. If the gas are close together they can bleed off too much gas.

    There is rubber o-ring that seals the gas chamber to the mag tube. If damaged it needs to be replaced. It can also get pretty fouled. Gently clean it with Hoppes, Break-Free or something that isn't harsh.

    And yes, some shells are dirtier than others. Not an issue for pumps or hinge guns, but definitely an issue for gas guns. Try another brand of shell and see how it runs.
     
  8. halfmile

    halfmile Well-Known Member

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    The gunk is caused by powder residue mixing with the lubricant. If you don't have the lube, the powder residue will blow out the exhaust.

    Shoot it Dry. The only lube I use is a little grease smeared on the slide bars.

    When cleaning use nitro solvent on a rag to wipe down the tube, and then break free if you must but wipe it dry before firing.

    HM
     
  9. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The powder reside does not all "blow out the exhaust". Some forms hard crusty deposits on all surfaces within the gas system. Shooting dry, my 1187 will run between 300 and 400 shells. Shooting it wet it will run 400 to 600 shells, and be much easier to clean. Once fouled, the wet system can be wiped and be back in action in a few minutes. The dry crusty deposits take a lot longer to clean up.

    Both methods will have gas discharge, the bulk of it when the gas rings pop out of the gas chamber. But the gas tube, especially the portion inside the gas chamber, is going to get fouled no matter which method is used. When shot dry, it will crust up sooner. The gas rings will eventually have problems with sliding over the hard deposits. They are being slightly compressed by the gas chamber, making this area critical to function.

    I suspect that most people who claim shooting dry is better are likely using premium shells or a good, clean powder for their reloads. For those using cheaper loads, they typically produce a lot more carbon deposits.

    BTW, tudurgs, the receiver itself should only have enough oil to prevent rust. It is designed "loose" so friction is at a minimum. A tiny bit of oil can be used on pivot points in the trigger group.
     
  10. windyflat

    windyflat Member

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    I have better luck with a dry gas gun...
     
  11. tudurgs

    tudurgs Member

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    Given that 99% of the shells that will ever go through this gun will be target loads, does it make sense to open up the gas ports a skosh?

    Thanks for all the help so far. This is killin' me!

    John
     
  12. Joe Potosky

    Joe Potosky Well-Known Member

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    Break Free. Don't wipe it off for several hours. Wipe down good and shoot dry....
     
  13. kiv-c

    kiv-c Member

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    I switched from Alliant Promo (their version of Red Dot, I believe) to Alliant Claydot in my 11-87. It is noticeably cleaner.

    Promo is fine in break open guns, not so great in semi-autos. It plugs up my Super-X1 in a short time, too.

    Kiv
     
  14. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Did you clean the gas ports first, with the drill bit specified?
     
  15. maka

    maka Member

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    Remington makes a product known as Dry Lube. Gets some, (Wally World, Gander Mnt.). Clean Mag. tube and spray lightly. As stated Mag. tube O-Ring might be bad. Check it also.
     
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