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? 11-87 slam fire

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by suptlloyd, Feb 19, 2010.

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  1. suptlloyd

    suptlloyd Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    117
    Hello:
    I have been experiencing an intermittent slam fire on my 11-87 when I release the bolt. Scares me and the ones on line and i am reluctant to use the gun now. Is it the trigger's fault or a bolt problem?? Anyone who might know?
    Thanks,
    Dave
     
  2. Hoosier Daddy

    Hoosier Daddy TS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2007
    Messages:
    967
    Pull the bolt out and check the firing pin and firing pin spring. The spring is probably broken and binding on the firing pin occasionally. Probably no big deal. Apparently you had the shotgun pointed appropriately down range when these slam fire occured. I am not afraid to shoot with you. It seems to me you did it right.
     
  3. Sigraph

    Sigraph TS Member

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    sounds like a stuck firing pin - there can be sever things to cause that. I guess it could be a trigger sear problem, when the bolt slams home it could possibly drop the hammer.
     
  4. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    Those dudes are way too easy to disassemble and inspect. I'd say it's a firing pin spring (like HD said).

    I have seen this happen to one that was very dirty from the lack of cleaning though.

    ss
     
  5. Tron

    Tron Supporting Vendor Supporting Vendor

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    6,651
    Is someone using WD-40 to lube his gun? I've seen firing pins so frozen forward (or stuck rearward) that it caused slam fires.
     
  6. bigbore613

    bigbore613 Active Member

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    INCOMING !!
     
  7. Quack Shot

    Quack Shot Active Member

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    Could very well be the firing pin spring or the pin itself. I'd also check the trigger and sear. If someone has done any "trigger work", that could be a likely cause. A quick, but not always reliable test, is to make sure the gun is unloaded, close the bolt on an empty chamber, and tap the buttstock with a rubber mallet or similar tool to see if the hammer falls. In any event, do not use or load the gun until you get it resolved. You might want to enlist the services of a good and qualified gunsmith to be sure.
     
  8. birddog1964

    birddog1964 TS Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
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    466
    Sarge,


    The guy came on here and asking for help and may being new to the site or not you don't need to criticize someone for asking for help, I you don't want to help I'm sure that the people at TS.com will not miss the NEG comments.

    lee
     
  9. Jack Frost

    Jack Frost TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    229
    I second that Lee. Just a few days ago I was on a squad with people who shoot big time compared to me, guy was shooting a $10k Ljudic when it was his turn he closed the gun and BANG! gun went off and shot the voice call cord in half. This person is a very highly regarded member of the trapshooting community. He recieved no ridicule and he promptly removed that gun from the trap field. It just goes to show that even in a medium risk environment like the trap range, KEEP THOSE MUZZLES POINTED AWAY FROM PEOPLE AND PROPERTY.

    J.F.
     
  10. BIGDON

    BIGDON Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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    6,620
    Location:
    Michigan
    Sarge; Go take a pill. It is usually a simple fix as described above. If he is practicing safe gun procedures it is no big deal. You act like the damn gun is going to blow up and kill 30 or 40 people, do you shoot with a flak vest on??

    Dave; get it checked out or take it to a gunsmith.

    Don
     
  11. suptlloyd

    suptlloyd Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
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    117
    No, I am not a newcomer. Have been monitoring the site for quite awhile ---a shooter since the sixties. Usually shoot a Beretta 680, though i like the autos for the fun of them, too. [the 11-87 has a Baker big bore and some other things, such as a gooey pad, that make it exceptionally soft shooting.]
    Can take the ribbing. Just don't like to upset other shooters on the line.

    Usually don't say much on the site --just read the ones i want. Thanks to all who made some informative comments. Appreciate it and will try them. Is there a certain 11-87 auto gunsmith to refer the gun to that you all might recommend?
    Thanks,
    Dave
     
  12. valmet

    valmet TS Supporters TS Supporters

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    Location:
    Bemidji, Mn
  13. short shucker

    short shucker TS Member

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    The resident Auto specialist is pretty darn good. Of course I'm referring to Tron.

    TronSpace Gunworks

    http://tronspace.com/default.aspx

    Joseph L. Bowles

    Telephone: (248) 884-1577

    E-mail: joe@tronspace.com

    ss
     
  14. kirbythegunsmith

    kirbythegunsmith Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    192
    Slam-fire of the 1100-11/87 design is almost certain to be sear/hammer assembly related issue, and not a firing pin or spring jamming issue.

    Firing pins of these guns seldom have issues with the "spring break-winding inside itself", especially since the updated design has been around so long. A spring jam of the pin in that manner will still have the secondary mechanism that withdraws and also blocks the pin from travel to protrusion (even if hit by a hammer) if the bolt is still unlocked. These firing pins are not direct linkage; they are inertial.

    The bolt slamming shut jars the gun or upsets the hammer/sear engagement especially due to:

    dirt inhibiting free motion of the sear

    a weak spring reducing secure sear engagement (spring substitution, alteration, fatigue)

    an altered edge profile i.e. surface angle and/or amount engaged at sear/hammer

    See this thread if you want the whole (unrelated to this issue) story that went with this picture that I posted and repeat here. You can see the spring and firing pin relation.


    Kirby




    http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/sthread.cfm?ThreadID=205982

    <a href="http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x109/kirbythegunsmith/shotgun/?action=view&current=MVC-729Fb.jpg" target="_blank">[​IMG]</a>



    Here was the text with the picture posted:

    It is possible to bend or distort a spring by accident when re-installing the firing pin in a Remington bolt, but the aspect of fitting a new buffer should have nothing in particular to do with a firing pin spring problem. It is possible to cause problems by incorrectly fitting or installing a buffer that may interfere with the firing pin free motion, but that is divorced from the spring end and cannot influence the spring action in and of itself. Some specific spring condition must independently exist or be created. See where the spring is on the firing pin inside the bolt and locking block, and notice that there is nothing near the vicinity of the buffer end of the bolt.

    It is also possible for an older version spring to crack/break in two and either wind into the other section or create an overrun condition similar to the larger springs shown in the picture. If the spring pieces wind into each other, the spring length is reduced and may fail to positively retract the firing pin for proper operation. A distortion at the overrun may act as a firing pin bind or lock block interference. The multi-coil wind in the middle of the spring (at the red arrow point) is the updated Remington spring that I always install to prevent such potential situations. If a spring breaks when it has the tight coil center, it is not able to freely screw-wind one section into the coils of the other section to a large degree before running into the coil section designed to act as an obstruction to that very situation.

    I follow the prudent Remington advice to always replace any older version firing spring in any Remington gun utilizing the same size spring, such as the 11/48, 58, 878, older 1100's and 870's, and mechanically identical versions like the Mohawk 48.
     
  15. Richiemac78

    Richiemac78 Member

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    if using reloads the primers may not be set deep enough...had similar problem with a Super X1 .....user fault again !!!!Good luck .
     
  16. Smithy47

    Smithy47 Member

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    Central Missouri
    I would think that it would be easy to check if the hammer is falling when dropping the bolt. Drop the bolt on an empty chamber and see if the hammer has dropped.
    If you cannot get it to fire this way, it is a problem with the firing pin (stuck). Could be the hole in the bolt head is obstucted or the spring is broke.
    Good luck!
    Bob
     
  17. M R Ducks

    M R Ducks Member

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    Smithy47 has the best advice - you need to see if teh trigger is being tripped onb closure before doing anything else. If you are shooting reloads - the primer could be the culprit. However - do what Smithy said about 50 times. Use a snap cap and pull the trigger after each slam and see if the trigger has already tripped - then go back and review all the great tips above.
     
  18. suptlloyd

    suptlloyd Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    117
    Thanks to all who responded! I did try striking the butt hard after closure and it did not trip the trigger. I also tried Smithy47's advice and shut the bolt without a shell three times to see if the trigger was being tripped. it wasn't.
    I found and ordered a new firing pin and spring and will replace those. Could be my reloads, tho i don't think so. Maybe i will just replace the whole trigger.
    Thaks again,
    Dave
     
  19. M R Ducks

    M R Ducks Member

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    Location:
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    Try shooting a 100 pack of WALMART shells before doing anything. If you do not experience a slam fire - take a hard look at your reloads.
     
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