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11-87 Function

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by tudurgs, Jan 21, 2012.

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  1. tudurgs

    tudurgs Member

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    I've owned and shot 1100's for years, and when I found a left-handed 11-87 for my wrong-armed grandson, I jumped at it. Gun probably hadn't had a box of shells thru it. He's now put a thousand or 2 thousand target loads through it, and keeps it scrupulously clean. The gun is now failing to eject virtually any target loads - Wally world shells, or my AA handloads, it makes no difference. It has been suggested that the problem is in the multi-stage ( ? ) recoil sensor that is what makes an 11-87 different from an 1100. Is that the culprit? If so, is the problem fixable? Seems as tho the problem has gotten progressively worse, as though there is a part which is wearing or is clogged up. Any help would be appreciated.

    John Dallas
     
  2. likemybrownings

    likemybrownings Active Member

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    There are 2 gas holes that can be plugged not alowing gasses to operate action, Located on bottom of barell exiting through the barrel lug, or the "O" ring may be bad or not sealing. I am not an expert but would try there.
    Good Luck Dave Butzier
     
  3. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    Check the gas port(ports) in the barrel. You can use a small tapered reamer to get rid of any carbon build up. Check the gas seals on the magazine tube, make sure they are right side up. Last but not least, spray the mag tube with Break Free and leave it wet. HMB
     
  4. jdsfarms

    jdsfarms Well-Known Member

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    If you have a new style gas seal make sure it is assembled correctly.Jerry
     
  5. jm1079

    jm1079 Well-Known Member

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    I would also suggest you spray the inside of the receiver where the bolt moves with Breakfree to shoot it wet. This works well for my 11-87. JM
     
  6. tudurgs

    tudurgs Member

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    I'm sure the gas ports are clear. Please tell me about the "New Gas Seal" How do I know if the gun has it, and it's installed properly?

    Thanks,

    John
     
  7. hmb

    hmb Well-Known Member

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    The new gas seal is a one piece unit. You can replace it with the old style seals from one of your other guns and see if the gun functions properly. HMB
     
  8. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Check these:

    Make sure the entire gas system is spotlessly clean. This means the surface of the magazine tube, the inside of the action sleeve (the part that slides over the mag tube), the gas rings, the rubber o-ring and the inside of the gas chamber (erroneously called the "barrel hanger"). Coat these parts with a generous coating of liquid Break Free in summer or spray can Break Free in winter, but not to the point of dripping. The outside of the action sleeve does not need Break Free, just the inside. The purpose is to make hard particulate fouling easier to clean off.

    Make sure the gap in the gas rings are 180 degrees apart. If the gaps are too close together gas can be bled off.

    Clean the gas ports. This is best done with a stepped (numbered) drill bit set. Do this by hand and be careful not to remove any metal. Typically a 26" field barrel will have two gas ports that are .1160", which is close to a #32 bit. A 28" barrel will typically have .1100" ports, which is close to a #35 bit. Start with smaller sizes and work your way up. If resistance is encountered, make sure you are not removing metal.

    Replace the rubber o-ring (gas seal). The best seals are those sold by Remington, which are made from Viton plastic. Ordinary seals can be used too, but they will not last as long, but they are cheaper.

    The "multi-stage recoil sensor" as you call it is nothing more than a second paid of gas ports on the gas chamber ("barrel hanger"). Over these two ports is a C shaped spring. The spring is supposed to keep the ports closed with light loads, but progressively lift off the ports as gas pressure rises. While not common, it is possible for the spring to become weak and start bleeding gas off. Also, it is not recommended to routinely remove this spring for cleaning. It's pretty much self-cleaning. Removing it requires spreading it apart, and this weakens it. Either way, if all else fails, replace the spring.

    And the above assumes that the bolt assembly is free to travel without restriction, like a bent or improperly installed fork. Generally this will cause all loads to fail, but sometimes only low pressure loads will, at least for a while until the condition worsens.

    Note that the bolt and inside of the receiver should only have enough oil to keep from rusting, plus a little bit on pivot points for latches and the trigger assembly. The gun is designed "loose", so lubrication for friction is simply not needed. In fact, this can gum things up, especially in winter. And grease is a no-no.
     
  9. pyrdek

    pyrdek Well-Known Member

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    You may also want to check the recoil spring tube and plunger. You will have to remove the stock to get to the tube. It is possible that you have a build up of "gunk" in there and/or the plunger may be damaged. Also check in case the tube has a ding in it.

    Another thing to check is the link. That is the "tuning fork" that connects to the plunger on the recoil spring. Look for a broken tip that may be digging into the plunger with a sharp edge.

    When you say it is failing to eject I presume that it will operate normally when you open the bolt manually. When you do this try to get it going backward rapidly. If not then determine if the bolt will travel fully rearward without any sign of binding or extra friction when you work it manually at slow speed. If it does not travel freely then you have something either bent, broken or improperly installed in the receiver or recoil spring area. If it does travel fully rearward then start looking at gas ports/gas sealing rings including the O-ring, the cylinder that holds the action bars, dings on the magazine tube, bent or warped action bars. These last couple of things would normally also show up as extra resistance when working manually but maybe it might not be noticeable when you work the action manually at a slower speed.

    One last thing to check it the extractor claw and the spring behind it. It should work freely but if there is old oil built up or filled with gunk, it may not extract the shell. I say this because I don't know from your description if it is extracting but leaving the empty in the receiver or just not even extracting it fully. You may also want to polish the chamber using a 0000 steel wool with a bit of Shooter Choice, Hoppes or other cleaner on it.

    While you are looking at the bolt carrier, check to see that the plastic recoil buffer is intact. That is the small piece on the rear of the bolt carrier. I would not thinbk this would be a cause but ....
     
  10. luvtrapguns

    luvtrapguns Well-Known Member

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    I second most all of the above. One thing not mentioned was that some guns had a recoil spring plunger that was made of aluminum. Over time, they will gall and become sticky in their movement. Replace with a steel plunger. Marc
     
  11. Old Cowboy

    Old Cowboy Active Member

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    Another thing to consider is, if you tighten the nut over the end of the magazine tube too tight it can spread the sides of the collar that slides on just before you slide on the forend. This collar serves to limit how far the semicircular gas relief spring can open and if the collar gets spread too much it can allow the spring to open too far thus relieving too much gas. My 11/87 behaved exactly the way you described and the fix was to squeeze the collar back in shape and then don't tighten the nut so tight.

    John C. Saubak
     
  12. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    a) Shoot wet with BreakFree CLP.

    b) Get a target barrel (2 3/4" only) if it has a field barrel (3").
     
  13. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    mrskeet410, quote: <i>"

    a) Shoot wet with BreakFree CLP.

    b) Get a target barrel (2 3/4" only) if it has a field barrel (3")."</i>

    a) was already mentioned. And it is not necessary for functioning, but makes cleanup much easier. The mag tube can often be simply wiped down at a match to keep going.

    b) should not needed if the gun previously worked with over a thousand target loads. This is an 1187, not an 1100.

    However, I would also check the loads to make sure they are not too light. Get some Mao mart promotional Winchester, Remington or Federal loads that come in 100 shell boxes. They should cycle a field barrel, and are the minimum load for many field barrels.
     
  14. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Actually BO he doesn't say it worked for the previous 1000.
     
  15. mrskeet410

    mrskeet410 TS Member

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    Tell me BO, why does Remington make target barrels for 1187s?
     
  16. tudurgs

    tudurgs Member

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    Thanks o all who replied. Lots to think about here. Sure hope to get this sorted. My Grandson shoots this gun well, and the recoil is managable for a skinny 14 year old. Will let you know what happens.

    John
     
  17. frostyman

    frostyman Well-Known Member

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    The C type ring that Brian in Oregon talked about is probably the issue. I was in Cabela's one day and they had about 5 used 11-87's on the rack and 3 of them had that ring missing.
     
  18. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    mrskeet410, quote: <i>"Actually BO he doesn't say it worked for the previous 1000."</i>

    Huh? Let's review what he posted...

    <i>"He's now put a thousand or 2 thousand target loads through it, and keeps it scrupulously clean. The gun is now failing to eject virtually any target loads"</i>
     
  19. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    mrskeet410, quote:<i> "Tell me BO, why does Remington make target barrels for 1187s?"</i>

    Why?

    From a target load standpoint, there is a wide range of target loads. Some are approaching light field loads. Others are very, very light, and will not cycle ANY semi-auto, not even one with a target barrel, without modification to the gas ports. There is a lower limit for field barrels shooting target loads, and below the upper range of target loads, you'll have to switch to a target barrel OR modify the gas ports in the field barrel.

    Also, many target barrels have features that set them apart from field barrels. Some are backbored. Some are overbored. Some are heavier. Some have different ribs.
     
  20. Brian in Oregon

    Brian in Oregon Well-Known Member

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    frostyman, quote: <i>"The C type ring that Brian in Oregon talked about is probably the issue. I was in Cabela's one day and they had about 5 used 11-87's on the rack and 3 of them had that ring missing."</i>

    Were the auxilary gas ports showing? Or not there?

    There are some 1187s that lack the auxiliary gas ports ring because they lack those ports. These barrels are typically made for very light or very heavy loads.

    For light loads, these are the trap, skeet and sporting clays barrels.

    For heavy loads, these are the 18" defense barrels, and 21" to 23" turkey and deer barrels, and rifled slug barrels.
     
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