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1000 target requirements comments! ! ! !

Discussion in 'Uncategorized Threads' started by mike T, Sep 8, 2008.

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  1. mike T

    mike T Member

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    Some other thoughts while I heal from shoulder surgery ( 5 hour surgery, with 2 screws and 4 clip things, and that is just what shows up on the x-rays.)

    With the 1000 target requirements being a little excessive I have some points on the subject to make.

    1. living in a northern type of area Iowa. Shooting really does not start till May. So if I were to shoot every week-end it would take to the end of July to meet my 1000 requirements. NO time for family since every weekend is tied up with meeting the requirements.

    2. Why not make it 500 in each of the last 2 years. Thus give the average guy some time for other interest (wife, family, kids, etc)

    3. After the Grand shooting cools off a bit (I mean time to take a break) and after Mid Sept If you are looking to get in targets for the next year unless you go way south or west very slim pickins here in the mid west.

    4. The average guy has other things going on in his life, (and shooting, unless he is retired) like other week-end responsibilities. ie: work, house chores, church, family, kids games, don't forget wife or girlfriend, or buddies that don't shoot things etc.

    5. I assume the ATA is worried about "sandbaggers" with a 1,000 target requirement. But we really seem to not have any trouble here in IA with our state shoot with a 500 target requirement. Sure there are always "target managers" in each and every pastime. Easy to fix. If they win a large sum of money or shoot a 99-100 in handicap in a state or satellite or grand shoot. Punch them to the 25 and leave them there for say 5 years, or what ever. Same goes for 16's or doubles go to "AA" There must be a way to figure out a system control.

    6. I am willing to bet the vast majority of shooters are not "target managers" and would like to make it to AA-27-AA. Any way that is what I see as shooters goals

    7. With the high requirements the average guy might just stay home and shoot local shoots, maybe the state shoot and forget the Grand or other large shoots. OR might just forget the ATA and shoot local leagues or Derbies

    8. Doesn't the ATA want go grow membership. Well to do that they need more than the Retired guy, or the "pro". The average guy makes up the majority of the requerational sports numbers, just look at golf, fishing, boating, bowling, tennis, hunting. Its the average guy that keeps the courses open the shops open. the sport alive.

    9. So ATA lets support the little guy. The guy working a full time job, with 3.2 kids, games to attend on week-end, grass to mow, family reunions to go, bowling league, you get the idea.

    O.K. YOU CAN ALL LT ME HAVE IT ! ! !
    mike t
     
  2. fiftystr8

    fiftystr8 TS Member

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    I completely agree, living in the north myself. But I am sure there will be several nasty replies aimed at you because you dare to suggest a change to the mighty ATA rules!
     
  3. over the hill

    over the hill Active Member

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    If I recall it used to be 500. I think the ATA upped it to 1000 around the late eightys.

    I have the same feelings as well. After nearly 20 yrs. of non shooting I may never catch up.



    Regards....Gerald
     
  4. BigM-Perazzi

    BigM-Perazzi Well-Known Member

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    Hope your shoulder gets better soon so you can start shooting those weekends....

    Jim Chapman

    <img src="http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i303/BigM-Perazzi/DSCF0039.jpg"
     
  5. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    We've been down this road many times, but I guess we're going again. Please don't consider this a nasty reply, it's not intended that way.

    A couple of things:

    - 500 in the past two years penalizes new members who didn't have a "last year", so it won't help to grow the membership any more to do it that way than the other. Somebody is getting penalized either way.

    - So you shoot 500 or 1000 targets over 3 months, then go to the Grand, then you need to "take a break"? What exactly are you taking a break from - certainly not a grueling schedule of registered target shooting.

    - You say that you believe the vast majority of shooters are not target managers, but in the next sentence list a series of penalties for anyone that exhibits the traits of one (punch to the 25 for 5 years after shooting a good score in a big shoot). What does that do to the average guy who gets in his target minimums and then shoots a good score? Think the average guy will come back after that?

    - You can still shoot the Grand even without having met the target requirements. You can shoot penalty or targets-only, but there's nothing keeping you from attending if you are interested in the experience . . . or are you trying to avoid penalty so you have an opportunity to shoot the 99 or 100 (and then get penalized for 5 years for doing it).

    It's been my experience (albiet limited) that people who want to shoot the Grand, for whaterver reason, will either get their targets or accept the penalty. I've always thought that if we were only going to impose target requirements on one shoot it should be the Grand - it's the world championship after all!

    Scott
     
  6. chadmillard

    chadmillard TS Member

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    Ok, I am new to the site, and new to sport shooting. I am a hunter, learning this discipline. What is this penalty you guys keep speaking of?
     
  7. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

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    Some events require a minimum number of targets in a specific period of time in order for you to shoot in your usual class for single and doubles and yardage for handicap. If you do not meet the minimum you will be placed in a higher class or a longer yardage.

    The Grand requires 1000 targets in a disipline (singles, handicap, doubles)in the current target year in order to shoot your regular class/yardage.
     
  8. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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      I find this Kind of funny .   You call your self trapshooters but don,t shoot ??    You think 1000 targets is impossible just can.t do it- no time- to cold- got family stuff to do (bull shit) .



     I have really slowed down this year but still had 1,600 Handicap targets by the end of April and more then that in singles . I never shot a target in January or February . I also did not shoot every weekend .

    ALF
     
  9. mike T

    mike T Member

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    scott
    thank you for your reply. I do not consider it a nasty reply. I was meaning the 1000 target min. As far as a break I meant do things with the family or kids or firends, out side of trapshooting. AS far a the penalties I thing the ATA is afraid of "sandbaggers" just a suggestion as to how or what to do. I know I can shoot the Grand without meeting the requirements. But every dog would like a bone now and then. So if I am a "B" shooter in doubles I would then shoot "AA" my chances of getting a Bone (trophy) just went up in smoke. Benig a B shooter I might have a chance with a 95 or so to get a prize but AA would need 100.

    jim
    Starting in May with about 4 Sunday per month you end up with 12 Sundays to shoot. That would make 1200 targets.

    Alf
    not sure where you are from but you must spent every Saturday and Sunday as well as shooting. You must live in a warm climate with a lot of shoots. I must be a wimp cause I went to my state shoot last year and shot the whole thing about 1200 targets by S
    unday I was wore out

    EE

    I have shot in Feb in Iowa (not enjoyable any more) Shot in April in a snow storm in Fairfield once too. Guess I am a fair weather shooter any more

    I have shot the Grand twice 2004 & 2006 and had planned to go this year too. Had my 1000+ targets in last year and would have been close this year. Just think 500 in each of the last 2 years or 1,000 in the current year for new shooters would make it easier to obtain, and give the little guy a chance at a trophy(bone).

    thank you all for your comments.
    mike thimmesch
    from Iowa
     
  10. hunter44

    hunter44 Well-Known Member

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    What does making the requirement 1,000 do that 500 wouldn't do?
     
  11. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    mike T says "Why not make it 500 in each of the last 2 years. Thus give the average guy some time for other interest (wife, family, kids, etc)"

    I have been posting on this site for over 4 years now and I do not remember the number of threads on target requirements that I have seen in the last year. Everyone whined and cried when the ATA changed the target year and they foolishly change it back. Now we are seeing the whinning starting about the target requirements. If the ATA changes the requirements for the Grand because seemingly everyone is whining about the 1000 target requirement then what the he!! lets get rid of the requirements all together.

    We wouldn't want anyone to have to make any type of commitment to the ATA and if they want to cry a little and they will change it. Well you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine. I have checked the clubs that have listed shoots in the fall in your State alone there are shoots listed every weekend at one club or another. Some clubs list multi-day shoots.

    All that is required is 3-4 hundred in the fall. Then in the spring in a 3 month period there should be no problem. No you need a break after the grand or "The average guy has other things going on in his life, (and shooting, unless he is retired) like other week-end responsibilities. ie: work, house chores, church, family, kids games, don't forget wife or girlfriend, or buddies that don't shoot things etc."

    I don't suppose that it would ever dawn on you that the target requirements are not in place to inconvenience you but to protect the shooter that doesn't run from target requirements. The shooter that is at shoots every week and still shoots C or B class. You would prefer that some shooter that doesn't have enough targets to really get a idea of his true class has an opportunity to sneak in to a class they don't belong in.

    If you are what you call the average shooter INMO the ATA doesn't need you or anyone like you.

    Bob Lawless
     
  12. Neil Winston

    Neil Winston Well-Known Member

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    Mike, I do have one bit of good news for you. Class advancement at the 2009 Grand will be one class, not two. So if you don't make the minimums, you will shoot A, not AA.

    Neil
     
  13. KEYBEAR

    KEYBEAR Active Member

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      mikeT  I live in Indiana (North Central) and it does get cold .   I did,t shoot much in January or February I think I shot 200 total .   But I shot two Saturdays all year and one was at the Indiana State all year .   One Saturday was a marathon and I got 300 singles . We do what we like more then what we have to do .   I have the time to shoot on Sunday I also shoot some Wednesday nights.      The local club had 14 Wednesday night shoots I shot about half of them .   Our State Shoot is in July I can have alot of targets by then .  I had 2,900 handicap targets by the end of July and shot them all in Indiana . ALF
     
  14. Pocatello

    Pocatello Active Member

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    I agree with Alf and Ivanhoe - the 1000 target requirement isn't that hard to meet. I live in Idaho, not Iowa, and I'll match our winter weather to yours any day. Also the trap clubs here are a lot further apart than in Iowa. The nearest shoot I attend other than my own club is over 100 miles away one way. This target year I did not attend my State Shoot (550 miles away), did not attend any shoots in the Boise area (240 miles or more one way), nor Twin Falls (115 miles one way). I shot one day in September 2007 (Dillon MT, 190 miles one way), and one day in September 2008 (Dillon again), and didn't shoot between October and January. I shot two days at home in February, one day at home and one day at Ogden UT in a March blizzard (130 miles one way), and did shoot five days at the SW Grand in San Antonio in April, my only major shoot. In the summer I did make two trips to Spanish Fork (three days total, 200 miles one way), one day in Magna UT (one day, 180 miles), and Butte MT (one day, 250 miles). That plus one shoot at home in each of June, July, and August was my shooting year, and I even had to miss one day of the August shoot because of work. So what are my totals? 2400 singles, 2500 handicap, and 2100 doubles, with plenty of time for the chores, family trips, work, and all the other things you mention. I certainly wasn't devoting every weekend to trap. In fact, counting it up there were only five weekends total during the year devoted to trap to the exclusion of other things. 1000 of each is not that hard.
     
  15. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Paul in Mn you must be right you seem to have all the answers. Like when you wrote.

    "Ignore Ivanhoe, for some reason target minimums really set him off. He certainly does NOT represent the majority of trapshooters. He is one of the few on this site that gives the rest of us a bad name. Mike, the ATA DOES need people like you; its people with Ivanhoe's attitude that we would be better off without."

    Well you are correct I do not represent the majority of trapshooters. I work at every shoot at, at least two clubs in my State Association. When the rule get changed I don't make it a point to cry and whine until I get my way. I do what I can to support the Association and the State Association.

    Paul you please remember that if all the members were none committal as you seem to feel it is alright to be you wouldn't have anyplace to shoot because there would be no one there to run the shoots. It certainly not shooters with your attitude that would put on the shoots. You know the I need to take care of my other commitments attitude.

    Another reason I don't represent the majority of trapshooters(the world according to Paul)is if I am going to the Grand target minimums mean nothing to me if I have enough fine if not I will not stay home because of it. Unlike most of the whiners.

    Now you have a nice time when you get around to going to the shoots. I would tell you to think about what I have said but I don't think you are capable of that either besides that would be to much commitment for you and it wouldn't fit you weekend plans.


    Bob Lawless
     
  16. phirel

    phirel TS Member

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    I believe that the only reason for minimum target requirements is for accurate classification. That changes the question to how many targets are required to accurately classify shooters in a manner that is fair to them and fair to the other shooters. It is not easy to reduce this question to a number.

    We face a peculiar problem next year. I hope shooters encourage their local club to host some weekday evening targets only registered shoots and some marathons on weekends. Mike T. (I am using you because you started this thread, but my following comment is really directed toward many others), why don't you ask your local club if it would register birds every Wed. evening in May, and you offer to do all of the paper work to get the scored registered? If you do not know how to run a targets only registered shoot, many at the club could teach you in less than 15 minutes.

    Pat Ireland
     
  17. grnberetcj

    grnberetcj Active Member

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    Either you have the "Resolve" to be a competitive trapshooter or you do not! The game of Trapshooting is all about "Competition" and if you have obligations (whether real or imagined) that require you not to be competitive, then go shoot for fun (targets only) and quit worrying!

    Curt
     
  18. mike T

    mike T Member

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    Thanks Neil,

    Maybe I am whining cause I can't shoot. I can't even hold up a 5lb weight (yet) But I am getting there. I will shoot next year and I will get in My 1,000 targets. There are a couple of Marathon's within a 2 hours drive. I like the idea of week night shoots. Not sure if local club would do it. But will ask.

    Am I going to drop out of the ATA cause of the requirements. He!! no I like trapshooting and plan on doing it for a long time.

    And if I get a chance to go to the Grand next year and for some reason I don't have in my 1,000 I probably will go anyway. Great place, Great people, Great fun.
    thanks
    Mike T.
     
  19. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Well-Known Member

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    I am with Pat Ireland's thoughts on extra registered targets at practice pricing. It's something I've wanted to do the last 2 years at our club and just been too busy to get it done. Both the ATA and the state associations are winners because of fee's collected, the club's should see more targets thrown, and it would help the shooters attain their targets at a reasonable cost. The one most important thing pointed out in a few of the comments above is the shortage of volunteer help at the various clubs. I see some of the clubs in my area going to be in real trouble with the aging of the volunteer and no young blood stepping in to help. I hope I am wrong. Shoot well and often, Bob
     
  20. ivanhoe

    ivanhoe Well-Known Member

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    Paul in Mn,

    "I feel the above comment is totally uncalled for; you owe Mike an apology."

    I owe Mike nothing. I didn't ask for Mike's opinion he put it here all by himself. He is a big boy and new he would draw fire for his comments. As the following statement proves

    "O.K. YOU CAN ALL LT ME HAVE IT ! ! ! mike t"

    You said "Your work ethic is admirable, your attitude deplorable." Paul your opinion of my attitude has little value. You entered this conversation with both of your eyes wide open. If you can't take my attitude that is your problem.

    You will find I that I feel your opinion is your right. If I disagree with it I will say so and I don't sugar coat my comments. You feel you can do and say anything you want but you expect me to have a less than deplorable attitude

    All I can say to that is welcome to the real world where everything you think and say is not necessarily the way things are. One more thing I use my real name when I have something to say which is more than can be said for you.

    Bob Lawless
     
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