1. Attention: We have put together a thread with tips and a tutorial video to help with using the new software. Please take a moment to check out the thread here: Trapshooters.com Tutorial & Help Video.
    Dismiss Notice

$100,000 rule change,shoot new shells unenforcible

Discussion in 'Shooting Related Threads' started by Dr.Longshot, Mar 3, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    $100,000.00 rule change SHOOT NEW SHELLS Option.

    Reloaders and AIM high school students shoot re-loads so they can shoot targets and attend shoots, some parents have 2 or more kids shooting, look at the cost for them.

    Frank Rively I thought you were for the shooters!!!!!

    RE-READ YOUR GOALS ON PAGE 14 OF THE FEBRUARY ISSUE OF TRAP & FIELD

    RE-READ YOUR IDEAS ON HOW TO REBUILD AND GROW THE TRAPSHOOTING SPORT.

    Youe idea of new shells will further decrease GRAND attendance.

    You want to do something reduce shell costs to $4.00 a box for the grand.

    Reloads should still be able to be used.

    If the ATA wants to hand out the new boxes of shells to the shooters for the $100,000 option as they go on the line, so be it for that event option only.

    That would mean checking that shooter to see he played that $100,000 option and he paid for his shells at time of entry for that option only, an ATA OFFICIAL hands him his box of shells for that trap as he goes on the line, and goes to the next trap and hands him or her the next box of shells as they go on the line and at each and every sucessive trap, it will work.

    Frank Rively I would like to see your resignation if this new shell rule is instilled.

    And I do not shoot the GRAND.

    Allowing re-loads has helped the average shooter and family to be ablr to shoot and have his AIM children shoot events. You want to make it more expensive?

    You want a $100,000 option contact Lloyds of London and get an Insurance policy.

    Dr.longshot
    Gary Bryant
     
  2. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    $100,000.00 rule change SHOOT NEW SHELLS Option.

    Reloaders and AIM high school students shoot re-loads so they can shoot targets and attend shoots, some parents have 2 or more kids shooting, look at the cost for them.

    Frank Rively I thought you were for the shooters!!!!!

    RE-READ YOUR GOALS ON PAGE 14 OF THE FEBRUARY ISSUE OF TRAP & FIELD

    RE-READ YOUR IDEAS ON HOW TO REBUILD AND GROW THE TRAPSHOOTING SPORT.

    Youe idea of new shells will further decrease GRAND attendance.

    You want to do something reduce shell costs to $4.00 a box for the grand.

    Reloads should still be able to be used.

    If the ATA wants to hand out the new boxes of shells to the shooters for the $100,000 option as they go on the line, so be it for that event option only.

    That would mean checking that shooter to see he played that $100,000 option and he paid for his shells at time of entry for that option only, an ATA OFFICIAL hands him his box of shells for that trap as he goes on the line, and goes to the next trap and hands him or her the next box of shells as they go on the line and at each and every sucessive trap, it will work.

    Frank Rively I would like to see your resignation if this new shell rule is instilled.

    And I do not shoot the GRAND.

    Allowing re-loads has helped the average shooter and family to be ablr to shoot and have his AIM children shoot events. You want to make it more expensive?

    You want a $100,000 option contact Lloyds of London and get an Insurance policy.

    Dr.longshot
    Gary Bryant
     
  3. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,413
    Location:
    Chicago area
    Gary -

    With all due respect, before you start spouting off on here about how to fix something, you really should take 15 or 20 seconds to read and fully comprehend what is written.

    The $100,000 prize is not an option, and I now see two or three threads in which you have referred to this as an option and suggested rules or procedures related to "playing the option". It's not an option - it's a giveaway to the winner of a shoot-off.

    You have also talked about buying insurance for this prize. That would only make sense if there was a signficant chance the prize would not be won (similar to a hole in one contest in golf). However, it this case it's a prize to the winner of the shoot-off, so there is no chance it will not be won, therefore insurance makes no sense (except maybe to you).

    You haven't shot at the Grand for a number of years, and have many times stated your intent not to shoot at the Grand. Given that, why do you care and why would you expect anyone to take anything you say seriously?

    Scott
     
  4. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    Scott read the other posts, how is this going to get more shooters to attend the Grand? With the economy the way it is, it is going to reduce attendance of the Grand, just wait and watch and see.

    The GRAND attendance has been going down every year, this will make it drop faster.

    That is my prediction, how do you see it raising attendance?

    I see the $100,000 as an option when you see mandatory new shells must be used, I also agree with other posters as a back door to get new shells to be used in all events.

    Taking AIM shooters family expenses into consideration look at the added cost especially families having 2 or more AIM shooters shooting.

    It is only my opinion, it will cost the ATA shooters.

    If I were not retired and on a limited income I would attend the GRAND.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  5. scott calhoun

    scott calhoun Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,413
    Location:
    Chicago area
    Gary -

    My post was not about any of the issues surrounding the addition of this added money, attendance, good/bad for the sport, etc. My post was specifically addressing the incorrect information that you continue to post. Looks like we're back to the reading comprehension thing.

    If you see it as an option, then you should have your vision checked as it clearly is not an option. It's not an option because eligibility for the prize is part of the entry fee - just like trophies or any other added money.

    Scott
     
  6. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,308
    One reason our team switched from sctp to AIM was so the kids could shoot reloads.. am I reading this correctly that they cant now? thanks!
     
  7. mixer

    mixer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    3,386
    Location:
    Coral Springs, Florida
    Dr Longshot said: "I see the $100,000 as an option when you see mandatory new shells must be used"

    It's only an option when you have to pay an entry fee to play, just like a Lewis option. In this case you have to be a winner in certain events to qualify for the $100k shoot off. The fact that rules say you have to use factory loads in no way makes this event an option, it's a way to insure that everyone is using standard loads and not some home brew rocket launcher loads.

    Eric
     
  8. phirel

    phirel TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    9,556
    Gary- Allowing reloads to be used at the Grand was a recent change intended to help attendance. It apparently did not work and the ATA lost much revenue from the decision. Also, your demand that Frank resign because of an unpopular decision he did not make is way out of line.

    Pat Ireland
     
  9. Don S

    Don S Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    287
    Home brew rocket launcher loads!

    I like that.
     
  10. 870

    870 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,390
    It is a great opportunity. Many issues have been raised and I doubt that everything is set in stone at this point. Why don't we lay off and let them work out a plan in more detail?
     
  11. GRR

    GRR TS Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2007
    Messages:
    245
    Lets see something in writing in Trap & Field and soon. There are several of us that are going to put off getting a motel room until after this is decided. No reloads equals No Go. I know several shooters that will not attend.
     
  12. wilschetz

    wilschetz TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    13
    For what it’s worth, SCTP does not require new shells and hasn’t for sometime. It is still the largest, most organized, and best youth shooting program. AIM is an afterthought!
     
  13. Jack Frost

    Jack Frost TS Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    229
    I do agree that requiring new shells will increase the costs to participate when you can not help but see prices of $8-$10 a box for premium shells at local stores in my area (west coast). I also agree that the requirement of new shells will likely decrease overall participation to an extent.

    What will make the biggest difference and we are still waiting to find out, is if the Premium shell manufacturers are willing to take a cut and supply the goods at a price comparable to lower end shells. If Remington and Winchester and Federal and others do so much for this sport as another post suggested, and I am not saying they do not, then here is a golden opportunity for them to match the Martin's generosity and supply the participants with premium shells at affordable prices with any proceeds after the costs going to the ATA in the form of a donation or thank you.

    I really feel the Remington and Winchester and Federal and others have deep enough pockets that they should be doing a little more for the sport as a collective effort. They spend millions on advertising their latest and greatest in multiple publications and TV ads, why can't they set up a fund for the clay target sports?

    J.F.
     
  14. Baber

    Baber TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,348
    There is a simple way to resolve it.

    1. Have the shooter declare if he (or she) is shooting for the prize or not at registration. If he is he (or she) has to shoot factory if not then they can shoot reloads.

    2. Take a shell at random from all competitors and check for shot weight. Its what is done at the Olympics.

    Tom
     
  15. comp 1

    comp 1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,165
    If you can't afford new shells to shoot ONE event don't shoot in it.
     
  16. blkcloud

    blkcloud Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,308
    Wilschetz, for what its worth.. here in Tennessee..

    1. Re-Loaded Ammunition will not be allowed beginning September 1st. 2005 NEW AMMUNITION MUST BE USED AT ALL TNSCTP EVENTS. (This includes all team practices and club level competitions) This is a safety and liability issue. Teams, squads and coaches are subject to disqualification and or expulsion from the program. No warnings will be given!
     
  17. dverna

    dverna Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    2,717
    Does this mean I cannot shoot home made shot at the Grand.

    I have this stuff that has everything from #10 to #5's that I have been saving up. It averages right at 7 1/2. It has lots of small shot for crushing the first shot of doubles and really big shot for those HC targets.

    I single #5 just destroys targets no matter how far out they get.

    Don Verna
     
  18. Dr.Longshot

    Dr.Longshot Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    5,722
    Scott if it is not an option why is there a new shell rule being required by the donors of the $100,000? Why all of a sudden a new shell proposal?

    Maybe a premature disclosure w/o and considerations or ramifications.

    Can new shells be used not purchased at the Grand?

    Pat Ireland the average shooter is not as fluent in cash as you and others, and that is the backbone of the ATA, This adoption will cause more shooters to not attend. Are you reading the replies on the other posts of not attending if they have to shoot new shells purchased at the grand at time of entry.

    It is not about shooting new shells it is the cost of the new shells, as an example can shooters buy Gun Club and Top Gun Shells, Rio's Etc.? At the prices they can be purchased at Walmart?

    It takes some in depth nand understanding of the average shooter and his monetary position, travel, hotel/motel, food expenses at a time of poor economy.

    This may have to be put off for a couple of years, be reasonable.

    And as for Frank Rively and his timing of new shells is bad for the ATA, it does not affect me as I cannot afford to go, and others will now surely follow suit if it is a requirement.

    I won't make anyore comments on this subject, just expressing my view.


    Gary Bryant
    Dr.longshot
     
  19. wilschetz

    wilschetz TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    13
    Blkcloud,
    Sorry, I’m quoting from the 2010 SCTP rule book. Apparently, Tennessee has implemented its own rules for SCTP competition. Here in Illinois, we can and do use reloads at both State and National events. Here is the official ruling taken from the handbook. I’m curious, would Tennessee disqualify your teams for shooting reloads at the SCTP nationals here in Illinois?

    E. ALLOWABLE EQUIPMENT – SHOTGUN AND SHOTSHELLS

    1. SHOTGUN – Any shotgun action type, 12 gauge or smaller, may be used as long as it is in a safe and serviceable condition. Shotguns used for all the disciplines, except for Trap, must be able to shoot twice without requiring it to be reloaded.

    2. SHOT SHELLS – Reloads are ALLOWED for practices and competitions, provided they comply with the discipline?s NGB rule for payload weight and in some cases, velocity.
     
  20. markdenis

    markdenis TS Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 1998
    Messages:
    1,123
    There is also the "am I being ripped off" element in this. I know several people that can afford to do what ever they want, but it doesn't mean there are not aware of what things cost.

    If Walmart is selling new shells for certain price and the ATA charges much of a higher price for the same mandatory shell, I assure, the "rip off" factor will come into play and keep many from attending.

    Mark
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.