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ATA & Olympics

8K views 82 replies 27 participants last post by  trapshooteraa27aa 
#1 ·
Maybe this has been answered/discussed before and I don't want to get "flamed", but is there a reason the Amateur Trapshooting Association "big dogs" don't ever represent the U.S. in the Olympics like the amateur basketball players do?

Yes, I know the game is rather different, but shouldn't the U.S. find a ATA shooter who can compete? Just wondering and asking. Regards, Ed
 
#5 ·
Old Goat...

Some of the "Big Dogs" did shoot for the US team. When they retired they started shooting ATA. Comparing Olympic Trap to ATA is like PGA Golf to Putt Putt. The level of expertise required at Bunker is much greater. Witness Mike Herman of Colorado. Mike was the Alternate for the 2004 Olympic Team. After he retired he went back to shooing ATA. Some people in Colorado wished he had not. He cleaned out one clubs coffers by running q 100 from the 27 and also ran one of the few perfect 300's. He did this all with his Perazzi Bunker Gun! Ray Stafford is a former member of the US Team.

We do need more bunkers in this country so that we can get some of these talented Juniors to shoot for the US team.

Tom
 
#7 ·
There is nothing preventing ATA shooters from competing in open competition for representation on the USA shotgun team. USA Shooting welcomes all shooters.

But like most games, we tend to stick with what we do best and bunker targets ARE more difficult to hit than ATA targets. It's not the speed or the deeper angles - its the combination of speed and deeper angles that gets most shooters in trouble. Inside the 30 degree arc all shooters, ATA and bunker shooters alike can hit those targets for high percentage. Outside the 30 degree arc the percentages fall off dramatically with ATA shooters really struggling. This is not anecdotal, I've done the stats and scored the rounds.
 
#14 ·
Skeet Man .... You are right on target. We don't have the facilities to train athletes for the demands of Olympic Trap. You can build 3 ATA fields for the price a bunker. We are gradually building more bunkers but its a slow process of only 2-3 a year. This year we added new bunkers in Nashville and in Kansas. We lose a lot of great talent to ATA because there is no place to train.

HMB... There are only a hand full of good bunker shooter in this country. To win a quote slot one must win one of the few World Cups. There are only 4 per year and not everyone has a quote slot available. Our shooters were not on at the right time. Ryan Hadden of the Army won 3 world cups in the last 4 years but none of them had a quota slot.

Olympic trap is the toughest Clay Target game in the world. People should not bad mouth it till they have shot it. I have seen bunker humble some of the "big dogs".

Tom
 
#16 ·
Frank Little made several US bunker teams, most on wobble traps. Someone name a win he had at a world level. He also said that the shooter who could make a second barrel shot w/ the 1 oz. (28 gr) foremat was just lucky. Must be REAL luck to do it w/ 24 gr. and shoot a 125.

Chuck
 
#23 ·
pufftarget, Frank Little wasn't interested in trinket medals then and wouldn't be now if still alive. Back in the late 70's Frank and I went head to head on the local wobble trap at a fun shoot. Score Frank 25, me 24. Put a $10,000 first prize up for grabs and you might get interest from some top ATA dogs!!
 
#24 ·
Kim Rhode won a chunk of $ in London along with her Gold Medal. To call her Gold Medal a "trinket" is an insult. I suspect that she won more $$$ than anyone at Sparta did except the possibility of the Martin $100K money winner.

The statement that there is "no money in Olympic shooting" is BS.

T
 
#25 ·
The competition at the Olympic Games is watered down because of the limit of competitors. It is harder to win the World Championships because many countries have 3 shooters that can medal whereas a country max's out at two, if you have your two quota slots at the Games.

I'm not sure how to respond to the "washout" definition. Who says that International shooters couldn't cut it in the ATA? I know that Kay tried to shoot Double Trap when it was a new game. He didn't stick with it.... does that mean he can't shoot? Is a washout? Come on..... And I am pretty sure he was well aware that there were no options to be played.

Jeff Holguin
 
#26 ·
Clay target shooting returned to the Olympics in 1952, the last event held in 1924. The USA reenterd the Olympic trapshooting in 1960.

At one time the ATA did sponsor an Olympic trap shooting team. In 1956 the organization and Executive Committee withdrew team sponsorship and trials scheduled for August 26 & 27 at Vandalia, Ohio.

ATA President Maynard B. Henry gave a statement that he had "been instructed to terminate all activities on behalf of the ATA in so far as the current Olympic Games."

The reason provided was "the impossibility to install facilities similar to those utilized in International Trapshooting, so as to preclude us from holding adequate trials and determining the team members."

President Maynard offered his apologies and said it was a personal disappointment to him.

Retired Air Force Col. Hank Copsey wrote an article (1966) informing clubs how to install equipment capable of throwing simulated Olympic-style targets.

In 1967 the ATA & NRA held preliminary tryouts for the 1968 Olympics scheduled for October 12-27 in Mexico City, Mexico. Shooters breaking 170x200 or better and who placed in the top 10% were invited to the finals.

In 1968 former Olympic shooters Frank Little (1964) and Arnold Riegger (1960) offered suggestions and advice to those aspiring to be a member of the Olympic team. The ATA adopted new rules for Olympic trials that were contained in old ATA rule books under the name Modified Clay Pigeon Rules.

Five clubs scheduled Olympic tryouts (Indiana, Ohio, Colorado, Wisconsin & Texas) and Hank Copsey who managed the Texas International GC in San Antonio hosted the final eliminations in July 1968.

Canadian Olympic and ATA member Harry Willsie managed Canada's International skeet and trap teams was another to offer his views on the adoption of Modified Clay Pigeon style trap shooting. He also provided pictures to Trap & Field showing the construction of Mexico City's Olympic Shooting Complex.

The NRA's International Shooting Committee decided that the top four shooters in clay pigeon, skeet, rifle and pistol tryouts would train in altitudes similar to that of Mexico City. In September 1968, shooters practiced in Albuquerque, N.M., then went to Denver, Colorado. The top two team members in each shooting discipline would compete in Mexico City. Alternates would be the those with 3rd and 4th highest scores. All expenses paid.

So, how did ATA shooters do at the 1968 Olympics? Well Tom Garrigus (US Air Force) won the Silver Medal in the Olympic Clay Pigeon event with 196x200 and three-way shootoff.

Who was Garrigus' teammate? None other than ATA member L. Ray Stafford of the Army. Tying for the Silver and Bronze medals were Tom Garrigus, Curt Czekalla (East Germany) and Pavel Senichev (Russa). In the first shootoff round Garrigus and Czekalla broke 25 and Senichev was eliminated with his 22. Mr. Garrigus smashed another 25 to win the Silver and Czekalla missed two targets for the Bronze.

Representing Canada was John Primrose and Ed Shaske, also ATA members. According to the article, Mr. Primrose shot the fourth high score of 194. Ray Stafford placed 26th with 189.

Hope you enjoyed this bit of Olympic history.

Kenny Ray
 
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