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2 Yard Reduction Question

3K views 25 replies 14 participants last post by  running bear 
#1 ·
I just returned from the Dixie where I was given my 2yd reduction without having my new paper card. I now plan on shooting at another reg.shoot but without having the new paper card will I shoot at my old yardage? Thanks.
 
#6 ·
From page 25 of 2012 Rule Book. (note) 2nd sentence was in bold type

F. SPECIAL HANDICAP RULES
1. A shooter must continue to shoot from the last yardage assigned
or earned until he/she receives a new Average Card with his or her
reduced yardage indicated on it. The ATA Shooter Information
Center may be used as evidence of a reduction with verification
by a member of the Central Handicap Committee, a voting
member of the Executive Committee or the shooter’s State
or Provincial Delegate. Electronic Printed Average Cards will be
accepted when available from the ATA Web Site.
 
#12 ·
"Let's say you have a 24 yard shooter who's goal is to make it to the fence and declined the reduction and now a 27 yard shooter is at the 25 yard now."

That is not an example of sandbagging!!!! The person that shoots the higher score always has the advantage. It (sandbagging) has nothing to do with what yardage you shoot.

Bob Lawless
 
#13 ·
I say it is but it's conditional.

If you have the shooter who read about the reduction who says to himself "oh yeah I can take down the next shoot cause the 2 yards will make it easier for me"

I guess it depends on how you look at it. Some of use spent an hour talking about the pro's/con's of taking/declining the reduction and there was a lot of views on it depending on how you look at it.

Here is a couple of examples:

One said... "After all the time and ammo it took me to get to where I am; I'll decline"

Another said... "My goal is to make it to the fence"
 
#15 ·
Making the 27, and having a level field, are separate issues.

Handicapping is meant to allow everyone an equal opportunity to win.

You need to change the punch system to not penalize someone for occasionally shooting great scores....
 
#16 ·
Howdy Y'all,

I know this is obvious,but aren't the 27 yarders that get reduced to the 25 be back on the 27 after a couple of shoots?? Whats the point? I just don't get it.
What exactly is the EC trying to accomplish.This move won't change a damn thing........I'm not complaining,and don't want the reduction(thanks anyway),just wondering.

D.P.Reynolds
 
#17 ·
DP, that isn't obvious at all. First, most people currently shooting from the 27 yard line don't belong there anyway so, if they take the reduction, it's unlikely that they will ever return. Those who really belong on the 27 yard line won't be getting a reduction since they will invariably have been puched within the previous 1,000 targets.

It seems obvious that the EC is trying to increase competitiveness in handicap. This might or might not accomplish that but at least they aren't just sitting on their hands doing nothing. I think this is like putting a band aid on a broken arm- won't accomplish much.
 
#18 ·
D.P. Reynolods,

You are right, won't change a thing/what is the point? The current group of under-handicapped 27 yarders will continue to stand at the 27 yard line and not move back when they shoot winning scores. The backfence needs to be extended so all shooters move back and forward based on wins and averages -that is the foundation of the ATA Handicap system. Let's hope that ATA leadership wakes up soon and makes meaningful change to the handicap system.

JAAS (just an average/amateur shooter)
 
#19 ·
A 27 yarder that is below the trigger point usually isn't competitive anyway. Remember, he is shooting against the best yardage group. He needs to move up if his ego will let him. Only time will tell if he will be competitive at the 25.

The mid yardage guys now have 24 yarders shooting at the 22 and 22 yarders shooting the 20. Huge advantage. You'll see a lot of winners coming out of these yardages at smaller shoots.

The "target managers" will take the yardage to win money.
They don't care what yardage they are on.

At the big shoots (Dixie for example) everyone still has to compete against the Leos, Rickys and Harlans. The Big Dogs will still win. Go to RJSTUART and see the "winners". The 2 yard reduction solves nothing at big shoots.
 
#21 ·
"First, most people currently shooting from the 27 yard line don't belong there anyway so, if they take the reduction, it's unlikely that they will ever return."

Why is it most of you people make statements that you can't prove and are incorrect. At the Grand Main events week the 27 yard shooters in four events alone took,

27 yard shooters got 245 yardage payout for all handicap events = 236.5 yds

If the majority of shooters on the 27 yd line don't belong there with figures like that then why is more concrete the wrong answer. Just how many shooters are on the 27 if most don't belong their??? Especially if they accumulate that much yardage yet there is no bottle neck at 27, RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

Bob Lawless
 
#22 ·
Bob, That was at the largest shoot of the year. The best of the best were there.

In previous posts, I stated that I had gone thru the 2011 Autumn Grand and there were (156) 27 yarders that shot events. 1/2 never shot a score over 90...the trigger point. What does that tell ya?

The 27 yardline is hard for most of us. It's easy for only a small percentage of shooters.
 
#23 ·
SM I don't understand what you are saying. You are telling me this is the biggest shoot of the year.

You pick the shoot that RJ Stuart posted last season and do the research and you will find that the numbers are just as lopsided as the Main events at the Grand.

As an example the CC 27 yard shooters got 97 yardage payout for all handicap events = 87.5 yds as a matter of fact all the yardages. Other than 27 totaled 143 that is nine other yardages not counting those shooting at the half yard marks.

The nearest yardage to that was 24 yard shooters got 27 yardage payout for all handicap events = 23 yds

Any shoot you pick the outcome is the same, lopsided. So as far as I can tell these kind of statements have no validity in the discussion.

"First, most people currently shooting from the 27 yard line don't belong there anyway so, if they take the reduction, it's unlikely that they will ever return."

Just my opinion SM but when you can show me numbers that say other wise, that is if you can find numbers that show it differently. Then I will shut up.

Bob Lawless
 
#24 ·
I think if Bob would check he would find that those he's talking about are only at tiny, tiny fraction of all the ATA memebers currently on the 27 yard line and they won't be getting a reduction anyway, like I said. In any case, the proof is right in the average book.

Notice that I didn't say anything about concrete at all and certainly didn't even imply that more yardage isn't warranted. Nor did I say anything about reduced shot payloads, faster targets, or wider angles- just because I didn't mention any of them doesn't mean that they have no merit. All I did was to commend the EC for trying to increase the competitiveness of handicap. Sorry if that offended Bob or anybody else. My bad.
 
#25 ·
"I think if Bob would check he would find that those he's talking about are only at tiny, tiny fraction of all the ATA memebers currently on the 27 yard line and they won't be getting a reduction anyway"

Your right it is only a tiny fraction. There in lies the problem if they were allowed to progress as everyone else is there wouldn't be a bottle neck on the 27. These discussions wouldn't be necessary would they.

Bob Lawless
 
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