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Help! What exactly is a flinch?

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Posted By Posted Date/Time
late bloomer 12-Jun-11 - 10:31 PM ET
twcpdc 12-Jun-11 - 11:14 PM ET
pigkiller 12-Jun-11 - 11:54 PM ET
shotgunpeople 13-Jun-11 - 08:18 AM ET
warren 13-Jun-11 - 08:30 AM ET
MTA Tom 13-Jun-11 - 08:46 AM ET
Crickets 13-Jun-11 - 09:20 AM ET
chipking 13-Jun-11 - 10:45 AM ET
late bloomer 13-Jun-11 - 11:11 AM ET
sliverbulletexpress 13-Jun-11 - 01:12 PM ET
Onceabum 13-Jun-11 - 01:24 PM ET
shotgunpeople 13-Jun-11 - 04:22 PM ET
Release Trigger 13-Jun-11 - 04:38 PM ET
Pull & Mark 13-Jun-11 - 04:39 PM ET
nomoloscofoso 13-Jun-11 - 07:55 PM ET
daddiooo 14-Jun-11 - 07:58 AM ET
Doddering Old Fool 14-Jun-11 - 09:27 AM ET
Citori Shooter 14-Jun-11 - 09:46 AM ET
t jordan 15-Jun-11 - 11:32 AM ET


Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: late bloomer
Date: Sun, Jun 12, 2011 - 10:31 PM ET
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I am not certain I have a flinch. Once in a while I will jerk the gun to the left and down before firing. Then the cheerful announcement of "lost." Is this a flinch?

Several years ago I had an experience in which, shooting doubles at Harlan Campbell's clinic, the trigger was frozen like it was in concrete. Harlan had me stop shooting doubles that day because he didn't want me to develop a flinch. I have ever-since thought a flinch was when you couldn't pull the trigger. Others I highly respect are telling me my jerking the gun to the left and down is a flinch.

Today at a shoot, I held onto my gun tighter and pushed it into my shoulder tighter than before. I did not jerk the gun.

FYI I do have a release trigger for my 90T. When trying it out 8 or 9 years ago I did an excellent job of hitting the trap house once or twice. Therefore, I am not eager for a new learning curve on the release trigger. OTOH Respected trap shooters tell me to just get on with the release trigger and my "flinches" will go away.

Thanks for your advice!!!

Terry

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: twcpdc
Date: Sun, Jun 12, 2011 - 11:14 PM ET
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Good luck on finding a answer to your problem. I do this also, it started shooting a bow we called it target panic in archery. I used a r/p trigger for a while not doing it on second shot much but have started on second shot so I now shoot r/r it has helped a lot. good luck Tom

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: pigkiller
Date: Sun, Jun 12, 2011 - 11:54 PM ET
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Yes, you have a forearm flinch. I get those on occasion, though not as often as before. Unsure about the solution, though you may try muscling the gun less. The flinch may also be related to stress, i.e., fear of missing.

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: shotgunpeople
Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 - 08:18 AM ET
Website Address:

years ago I had the same problem...Pulling a welded trigger and many, many losses...(Flinches)

I ended up going to the release and a Terry Jordan Wall Chart to get used to it. I had never used a release in my life, but after getting use to it using the chart, I went out and for the first time ever on a practice day, had 23-24-25-25...I knew I had to either learn this trigger or quit shooting...

I used the chart also to pretend I had a broken target and had to open the gun after setting the trigger...Learned a lot using that chart before hitting the actual field.

Now, doubles is a different story for me. I have used the chart and have no problem releasing the trigger on the first target and resetting it for the second...When I get to the actual field, I have no problem with the first release, but I cannot pull back that trigger to reset the release for the second target...Once again, it feels like it's welded in most cses...Sooo, I just shoot singles and Caps and enjoy what I can still do...

Good luck and I would tell you, if you aren't too far gone with this yanking your gun down, or freezing up when you go to pull the trigger, get yourself a chart from Terry and dry fire...Even with the release I found I was yanking my gun down when I fired and the chart cured me of this problem...

Dave in SC

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: warren
Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 - 08:30 AM ET
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I have discovered that my flinch was caused by eye crossover, that is my left eye trying to take over and my subconsious effort to correct it. I have been wearing a patch over my left eye at nite to try to strengthen my right eye and am concentrating on my right eye when calling for the traget and I must say my averages have improved and not nearly so many "flinches"

warren

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: MTA Tom
Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 - 08:46 AM ET
Website Address: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/sports/golf/the-yips-bane-of-golfers-may-be-muscular.html?_r=1&scp

An interesting article on golf putting "yips" appeared in the 6-11-11 NYT, "Cause of the Yips Is Debated, but the Effect Isn’t"

"Known as the yips — but also the jumps, the shakes, the jitters and the flinches — the affliction is often linked to a kind of performance anxiety, reflecting perhaps an erosion of confidence or a weakness of will....

For years, the yips were thought to have psychological or neurological roots, ideas supported by two Mayo Clinic studies. But a hypothesis has emerged pointing to a muscular source — the result of a buildup of scar tissue in the forearms — for the involuntary twitch that sets off the yips."

Maybe golf yips and some trap flinches are related?

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: Crickets
Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 - 09:20 AM ET
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Had my 1st ever flinch episodes at the State Shoot. I felt like it took all my strength to get my gun to the right and at the same time the trigger felt so tight I literally felt myself twisting the gun out from under my cheek. Felt as though my (o/u) Barrels were at 45 degrees from vertical by the time the shot fired. 1st time it happen I thought there was something wrong with my trigger. Missed 3 more that day for the exact same reason on an otherwise "felt good" shoot. Really a strange sensation though. I missed more targets than 4 (12 total out of 200) but those other's were from being stupid not from flinching.

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: chipking
Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 - 10:45 AM ET
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Both of what you describe fall into the category of flinches. I have suffered from both plus occasionally pulling your head back and away from the stock just as you shoot. There are more than a few different types of flinches and causes. A good friend who went to a release several years ago now has an occasional "let go" flinch where it looks like he is opening both hands and shoving into the gun at the shot. Whoever figures out the cause and a true cure will be the richest person in the world.

--- Chip King ---

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: late bloomer
Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 - 11:11 AM ET
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Thank you for you suggestions. I am going to see how I do in a registered shoot on this Thursday while holding the gun tight to my shoulder and my cheek really tight to the comb. This helped yesterday and I did not "flinch." I may have been holding the gun too loose (not really tight). I also felt I was lifting my head off the stock while pulling the trigger. (To admire my great shot :-)) Needless to say, the target went off and broke when it hit the ground.

I will also try my release trigger. I have an original Jordan chart. It is too big for my basement; so, I may try it in the garage. Does Jordan make a smaller chart than the original?

Terry

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: sliverbulletexpress
Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 - 01:12 PM ET
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Sounds like a vision flinch to me, if you're eyes are not locked onto the front of the target like you know you should, the rest of your brain won't cooperate and let you make the shot.

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: Onceabum
Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 - 01:24 PM ET
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late bloomer,

Go to a release and STAY THERE. You won't be sorry.

BB

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: shotgunpeople
Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 - 04:22 PM ET
Website Address:

Terry makes an 8' chart now. I have two 8 footers, and an original 10 footer.

One for the motor home, one loaner, and one permenent mount...

Think I believe in that chart ??? LOL

I found that by just folding the 10 footer in from both ends to get it to fit the rear of the motor home works just fine for me so maybe you could try that. You loose a couple of the far end targets but still have most all that you would regularly see on the field.

Good luck,

Dave in SC

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: Release Trigger
Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 - 04:38 PM ET
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A flinch can be best described when every and any thing moves other than the trigger finger, "been there done that' practically would walk upto two yards with the gun before I could finally pull the trigger.

Frustration is not the word, competition suicide comes to mind, when it happens it's the pitt's, but for me as my sign on name says a Release was the instant cure, took to it like a duck to water, actually shoot a double now after 10 years with Release pull got the yips with my second last summer.

Shooting became fun and I was competitive again, I fought the change for a full year before I finally woke up, it might not work for everyone but it was my salvation.

Yours in sport.

Release Trigger.

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: Pull & Mark
Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 - 04:39 PM ET
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Terry, It can be caused by several problems. Recoil is one, in my opinion the mind is the biggest reason. Its a conflict between the conscience and subconscience. They get a conflicting message at the same time and the brain just can't make a choice in some cases so it does nothing (no pull on trigger) or jerking trying to. You have to find out which one it is recoil or mind. Recoil is easy just add a recoil device and go from there, the mind part is much harder. A release trigger may work, or it might not. I'm sure it will cost you over 350 min. for the R. trigger and another 350 min. for the recoil device it the trigger does not work. Choose carefully!!! Good Luck and Break-em all. Jeff

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: nomoloscofoso
Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 - 07:55 PM ET
Website Address:

EYE'S

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: daddiooo
Date: Tue, Jun 14, 2011 - 07:58 AM ET
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What shotgunpeople said. Using Terry Jordans wall chart works. What you do when practicing with it translates directly to what you do on the trap line. Not sure it will correct every type of flinch but sure helps eradicate many of them. Eye muscle retraining helps as well.

A release trigger was the answer to my problem. Then my left eye started flinching(litterally)and after some serious internet searching I stumbled across an article of what vitamin B complex does for the body and started taking it daily and now left eye flinching has stopped. (right handed shooter)

Good luck and hope you can get straightened out.

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: Doddering Old Fool
Date: Tue, Jun 14, 2011 - 09:27 AM ET
Website Address:

Terry,

Just my own experience. I shot rifle for 30 years at a reasonably high level.

A new position in my Corporation took me out of shooting for about four years and when I came back decided to shoot at things that move. Recoil and match nerves were not a factor, but every now and then I could not pull the trigger. my first good registered score was a 98 and I didn't shoot at the two I lost.

I talked to Frank Little, whom I'd known from International shooting, and he said " Hank, you're a rifle shooter trying to shoot a center X on each bird. Your brain shuts you down on a less than perfect hold. Get a stiff release trigger and after your first 500 registered birds, you'll see a real difference". He was absolutely right. Got my first 100 straight a month later and have been shooting release triggers for 38 years. Allems in Zionsville ,PA do an outstanding job.

Hank Cross

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: Citori Shooter
Date: Tue, Jun 14, 2011 - 09:46 AM ET
Website Address:

Hi, I like to plink with a .22 off-hand when I feel I'm starting to flinch at trap.

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Subject: Help! What exactly is a flinch?
From: t jordan
Date: Wed, Jun 15, 2011 - 11:32 AM ET
Website Address:

Hi Terry

I agree the release is the way to go and the Wall Chart does help a shooter make that change with ease.

I did have a few guys tell me that they cured their pull trigger flinch with the chart but I think most guys would end up needing a release.

All the info is free on the chart just e-mail me if you want to read about it.

Terry.

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