Ansvel -

For our trial, we did use an old 2 dripper Shotmaster shot maker from New Zealand. Dropped the shot into a 5 gallon bucket of hot tap water off of the gable end of my buddies garage roof. We used hot water to start to reduce the temperature difference between the lead and the water as much as possible.

Jeff

333t, Is this process they refer to as chilled shot?

up

Here is some additional history from Wikipedia that references making small shot:

Shot making

[edit] Process In a shot tower, lead is heated until molten, then dropped through a copper sieve high up in the tower. The liquid lead solidifies as it falls and by surface tension forms tiny spherical balls. The partially cooled balls are caught at the floor of the tower in a water-filled basin.[1] The now fully cooled balls are checked for roundness and sorted by size; those that are "out of round" are remelted. A slightly inclined table is used for checking roundness.[2] To make larger shot sizes, a copper sieve with larger holes is used. However, the maximum size is limited by the height of the tower, because larger shot sizes must fall further to cool. A polishing with a slight amount of graphite is necessary for lubrication and to prevent oxidation.

[edit] History The process was invented by William Watts of Bristol, UK, and patented in the late 18th century.[1] Watts extended his house in Redcliffe, Bristol to build the first shot tower in 1782.[3] Shot towers replaced the earlier techniques of casting shot in molds, which was expensive, or of dripping molten lead into water barrels, which produced insufficiently spherical balls. Large shot which could not be made by the shot tower were made by tumbling pieces of cut lead sheet in a barrel until round.[4] Shot towers were replaced by the "wind tower" method by the end of the 19th century, which used a blast of cold air to dramatically shorten the drop necessary.[5] Today the Bliemeister method is used to make smaller shot sizes, and larger sizes are made by the cold swaging process of feeding calibrated lengths of wire into hemispherical dies and stamping them into spheres.[6]

The Wikipedia website is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_tower

Phil

Phil- Thank you very much. I learned something from your post. I have visited the shot tower on the New River twice and I have driven by the tower many times. I should have paid closer attention to the information at the tower, but I am glad you did. I live about 40 minutes from the tower.

I like this site. I post my ideas and beliefs. If I am incorrect, that gets pointed out and I learn something new. That is great.

Thanks again Phil.

Pat Ireland

Pat:

I don't think shot towers ever dropped musket balls. I think this is just an assumption someone made along the line. Muskets were probably used with shot as much or more than with single balls so it would be easy to assume that all the projectiles were made the same way. I am quite sure that musket balls and buckshot were either cast or made with mechanical means such as precut chunks of soft lead being run through a series of rollers until round, then tumbling for final finish.

Arsenic and antimony are added to dropped shot to make it form better spheres and make it harder. Lead balls are intentionally made of pure soft lead that will upset in the barrel and provide a better gas seal. Modern lead balls are undoubtedly made with mechanical means because they are made to a uniform and exact size, something that is impossible with dropped shot.

Here a couple of excerpts from the history of the Jackson Ferry Shot Tower site: http://files.asme.org/ASMEORG/Communities/History/Landmarks/5576.pdf

that pertain:

Lead projectiles have been produced for centuries, primarily by two methods: casting (molding) and dropping in a free fall. Both processes continue in use today in both limited and mass-production quantities. Additional processes have also been developed, such as grinding, tumbling, punching/trimming, and combinations of these techniques. And the following:

Projectiles, either spherical or of other configuration, larger than 20 caliber (0.200 in. diameter), are usually molded regardless of the quantity produced. Smaller sizes are normally produced only in large quantities and by "dropping" in a free fall. Shotgun pellets as large as FF size (0.23 in. diameter) have been made, but the BB size (0.18 in. diameter) is the largest drop shot made today. And the following:

This facility was typical of others in the country which made small spherical lead shot for the fowling pieces of frontiersmen and settlers. Smelted lead from the nearby Austinville mines was melted at the top of the tower and poured through a sizing sieve to produce small droplets. Surface tension caused the molten lead to assume a spherical shape which solidified during its 150-foot fall. The shot was then collected in a water-filled kettle at the bottom of the shaft. The "drop process" was patented in England in 1769 by William Watts, a craftsman of Bristol, England. He profited handsomely from its prevalent use. End of excerpts.

The .pdf file above is easily downloaded and makes interesting reading.

Phil

Phil- If your idea is correct, how did the shot towers drop 57 cal musket balls?

Pat Ireland

WELL, YOU CAN KEEP YOUR SHOT TOWER/GRAIN STORE/DERALICT BUILDINGS.

AFTER THE RUN I HAD TO DAY WITH NO CLIMBING HUFFING AND PUFFING INVOLVED, ILL STICK TO THE SHORT DROP METHOD.

BOTH FEET ON THE GROUND AT ALL TIMES. MADE 50KL OF SHOP QUALITY SHOT AS GOOD AS IT GETS AND NO VERTIGO INVOLVED, MIND YOU I HAVE HAD TO DEGREASE, BUT THEN THATS PART OF THE FUN. HAPPY DRIPPING. SNAREPEG

Thanks GoldEx! I appreciate your experience. In your case to make 7 ½ shot I’d need at least 21 feet, that means third floor or higher. Did you use a tank with water under to collect the shot or it was some pail? What did you use to heat the lead? Thanks.

Ansvel -

To answer your question, NO. 9-12 feet is not far enough for 7 1/2 shot. Look back in this thread where I posted my experiences dropping 7 1/2 shot at varying distances and lead temperatures. All the info you need is right there.

Jeff

I don't believe dropped shot can be made much larger than 2's or maybe BB size. It doesn't make any difference whether a shot tower or shotmaker is being used. The shot forms when the lead seeps through a very small hole. When the weight of the lead globule overcomes the adhesive properties of the molten lead, it separates from the orifice and drops.

This happens with the drippers in a shotmaker and also with the drip plate (pan) in the shot tower, which has many small holes drilled in it. The shot size is determined by the size of the hole but if the hole is too large, a constant stream of lead will run and no shot will be formed. There is just no way that gravity would allow a molten lead globule the size of buckshot or a musket ball to form before dropping. And, if you tried to drop say a spoonful of lead to make a larger ball, it would just splatter. It won't form up to a ball on the way down. I think anyone who has used a shotmaker or made cast bullets or sinkers would concur.

Sometimes a shotmaker will make larger shot gobs but this is usually caused by multiple lead drops melting together on the drip shelf when the machine is not fully heated up.

Phil

Ellen Making the shot your way is quite messy and some investment. If I’ll drop a molten lead from the distance it will not rise the coolant temperature and I can make more shot in one batch. All I need: a portable electrical(~$20) or propane stove then will attach a metal box with the drippers and let it drop down. I think some abandoned places will be the best to drop from fifth floor or so… Something like that, I did not make a final solution.

Ansvel: You don't need a tower to drop your shot. Don't need a fan blowing on the machine either cause it cools down the burner and the lead won't flow through your drippers. Put the lip of the shotmaker no more than 1/4 inch away from your coolant level and you should be able to make 7 1/2 shot. Yes, you will have to rake it out of the drop pan so it doesn't continue to pile up on itself. Yes, the coolant will get hotter the more you make. That is why people have devised a cooling system so they can make larger batches or run the machine longer.

So, what is the distance for 7.5 shot? I can drop the lead from 9-12 feet into DOT 3. Any comments?

Located in Baltimore's Inner Harbor, originally called Merchant's Shot Company, they opened in Baltimore City in 1828. Both "drop shot" for pistols and rifles and "moulded shot" for larger weapons such as cannons were made here.

One of only a very few similar buildings left in the United States, the Phoenix Shot Tower was used to make lead shot from 1828 to 1892. Molten lead was dropped from a platform at the top of the 234' tower through a sieve and into a vat of cold water. Being constructed of one million bricks, the Shot Tower was the tallest building in the United States until the Washington Monument in Washington, DC, was completed after the Civil War. The Shot Tower was designated a National Historic Landmark in 1972.

That is correct. You also have to look at the temp of the day and the year. I did alittle homework and they said that during some of the summer mornings they would make larger shot like 4 and 5 till it got to warm and then switch over to smaller shot like 7 1/2 8 8 1/2 and 9. They do not need to fall as far as the larger shot. In other words they cool faster and don't flatten when they hit the water. Its a great idea if someone can find out how high you need to be for winter time and summer time.

You don't need a 100' tower to make 7-1/2 shot. The shot makers have towers that tall so they can make all sizes of shot. It may take 100' drop to make 000 buck, but it proabably only takes 20 or 25 feet to make 7-1/2 or smaller. The old towers from the 1700s and 1800s were used to make musket and rifle balls, often of .57 cal. They needed a long drop to cool.

up

Here is the thread.

This is a picture of a dripper to make # 7.5 shot. A whole lot smaller hole than a # 7.5 pellet! That is a 3/8 bolt.

Jeff

Rem31TC -

To make number 8 shot you need a hole like .022 or .024! The holes in my drippers are so small if you don't look close, yo will miss them!

Jeff

In the 40 years we have been making our own shot the most our lead has to drop is about 1/4 inch from the lip of the shotmaker. Jim Stewart solved this problem back in 1964 and has been making shot ever since with no problems of lead poisoning or the shot not being round. He has hundreds of his shotmakers from coast to coast and a few in between. If you really want to make good shot buy A Better Shotmaker that he sells. Go to http://www.geocities.com/jstewart1934/My_page.html or email me and I will send pictures and information. Ellen O'Connor

Does Northwest Shot have a web site? What all can you buy in components from them? Another poster wrote earlier that Northwest Shot was the only shot company that would redrop you shot for ???$3.00??? per bag. I wonder if that is already in ingots or you can take them a truckload of wheel weights.

Post-2

I was just at N.West Shot in Medford buying components and did not see any type of tower for dropping shot. The lead is melted in a big propane tub outside then inside, the melted lead goes through varies size dyes to determine shot size then rolls down a series of three angles tables into a large hopper which then is used to fill bags and sew them shut. Mike

Here is a picture of West Coast's tower.

The Horse Trader; For your information larger shot has to drop further to round it and cool it. Add some arsenic and it will harden quicker. Add Viagra and it will harden immediately, but will only stay that way for a while. FD

What size openings/orifices is used to make the various size shot? Does an orifice of .090" generally make 8 shot?

Rem31TC

Hoss trader, you can also use a well wheel at the top for hoisting up the materials. I think I'd also use a good fan up there to keep lead fumes blown away from the work platform. Set up correctly, shot quality may be the best to be had. Would be an interesting project since I love tweaking things too. Hap

I have two silo's and I don't know which one is taller. One did have a roof on it but a storm blew it off. I can still work with either one. From what I have read here and off Google I don't need a 100 foot or taller tower to work from. All I'm making is 7 1/2 shot and from what I have read it takes a shorter tower to do so. I will try to make some 4 5 6 shot later but those to I can work with a short tower.

One person asked how did you get the hot lead to the top. You put some power up to the top of the silo and plug in your Littleton shot maker and start feeding it lead. As for getting the lead to the top. A hay elevator with paddles would be good to have but it needs to be tall enough to do so. We did have a screw style to put sylag(sp) from the fields but I don't think it works now. The other two ways is to put the lead in a back pack and work those legs. The last way is to put the lead in buckets and put them at the base of the ladder or silo and use a rope with a hook to bring them to the top. I still would like any other posts, thoughts and idea's that any of you all have.

What would a water mister do to the shot on the way down? Would it cool it enough to prevent spatter or deform it? Maybe just enough mist to cool it but not wet it. Just some thoughts....

Pat, you'll hafta have a lil heart to heart with him when he has time huh? :-) Hap

I guess Ireland was incorrect, I hope he learned something new.

Pat Ireland

Guess Ireland had never been to the Winchester or Remington plants since he told us they didn't drop their shot, but they do.

Just to contribute my $.02 worth, back in 1959 my dad was involved in building the first shot tower in Medford, OR. I hung around about as much as was allowed just because I thought the whole idea was interesting. That tower was 100 ft. high as I recall, but I don't know how high a tower North West Shot is using today. The first tower was of open construction (like an Erector set) but the shot dropped inside a metal tube about two feet in diameter to prevent any wind drift. As was mentioned above, the pellets dropped into a cooling water bath. The shot was then dried, graphited, and bagged up.

How do you get hot lead to the top of the silo?

If a person used an old farm silo for the shot tower, I would think the silage lift could be modified to get the lead to the top, asuming it is the paddle type and not an auger.

Shot towers are over 100ft. That would be a big silo. Shorter towers are used by the big companies but they know a few tricks. It doesn't take much technology to drop from a high tower. Do a websearch on shot towers, the history is pretty interesting.

For those of you interested in our experiences with dropping shot, we learned the following....

650 degree #7.5 shot dropped 9 feet through 50 degree air into 110 degree water made lead spatters.

650 degree #7.5 shot dropped 13 feet through 50 degree air into 110 degree water made lead spatters.

650 degree #7.5 shot dropped 21 feet through 50 degree air into 110 degree water made nice round lead shot that hammers the crap out of targets.

725 dergee #7.5 shot dropped 21 feet through 50 degree air into 110 degree water made lead splatters.

We are looking for someone with an old barn where we can get at least a 30 foot drop. Doing it this way simplifies the whole process a bunch. No coolant to wash off. Just dry the shot, graphite/roll it and load it.

Jeff

I shot a tower once.

Anyone know how high the tower would have to be for making size 7-1/2 and smaller? The towers in use now make some very large shot and need the extra hight for air cooling and shaping the molten lead as it falls. Maybe the farm silo would be ideal for smaller shot? Hap

If memory serves, Federal use to buy their shot,or some of it out of Nevada West Coast. North West Shot is dropped in Medford Oregon.

Post-2

FYI. Remington has a shot tower at their Lonoke, Arkansas plant.

Johnpe

Pat, Shot dropped from a tower is very good, the other stuff is just good. Sounds like you agree that the tower stuff is better. HMB

Illegal aliens would be happy to have that job.

Pat Ireland

It is a good way to make shot but I have seen no evidence that is is better than other methods. West Coast shot is dropped from a tower and it is very good shot. Winchester, Remington, Lawrence and Federal shot is not made using a tower and it is good shot.

Pat Ireland

It's the one and only way to make the best shot. HMB

Old Way?

Post-2

I do not recall anyone saying that you cannot do that, it just seems like a lot of work but with a little effort, you never know, you know ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

I have a littleton shotmaker and I'm soon going to get it going. I know you have to have a coolent of some sort and then wash the shot and so on. But why can't a person say get in a farm silo. Get everything up to a point and let the shot just fall to a cooling tank? This as most know was the old way to make shot. Why can't we combine the two?