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ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?

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Posted By Posted Date/Time
StansCustoms 28-Jul-12 - 07:25 PM ET
Pull & Mark 28-Jul-12 - 07:41 PM ET
grntitan 28-Jul-12 - 07:49 PM ET
StansCustoms 28-Jul-12 - 09:08 PM ET
Shooting Jack 28-Jul-12 - 09:18 PM ET
Rufus80 28-Jul-12 - 09:30 PM ET
StansCustoms 28-Jul-12 - 10:08 PM ET
t7731 28-Jul-12 - 10:15 PM ET
grntitan 28-Jul-12 - 10:31 PM ET
tom90T 29-Jul-12 - 09:18 AM ET
StansCustoms 29-Jul-12 - 10:38 AM ET
StansCustoms 29-Jul-12 - 10:43 AM ET
grntitan 29-Jul-12 - 10:47 AM ET
Pull & Mark 29-Jul-12 - 04:47 PM ET
tom90T 29-Jul-12 - 10:32 PM ET
StansCustoms 30-Jul-12 - 02:17 AM ET
Setterman 30-Jul-12 - 06:59 AM ET
guinner16 30-Jul-12 - 09:32 AM ET
whiz white 30-Jul-12 - 09:38 AM ET
halfmile 30-Jul-12 - 09:57 AM ET
OldGoat 30-Jul-12 - 01:04 PM ET
StansCustoms 02-Aug-12 - 12:32 PM ET
skipsor 04-Aug-12 - 04:11 PM ET


Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: StansCustoms
Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2012 - 07:25 PM ET
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I just acquired a bunch of 12 gauge once fired hulls...a friend was cleaning out his garage.

I sorted them out...and have a lot of the Remington STS and the Remington Nitro Gold. Can someone tell me which is best of those two? ...or are they egual?

I also have a lot of the Winchester hulls pictured...some of them have HS on the primer end...but some of the others look the same as the HS inside?. Can someone tell me how to tell by looking inside the hull (or any easier way)which ones are HS hulls (or not)? Also would like to know if anyone is familiar enough with the Winchesters to tell by the print on them which would load with the same components. (same or different wads etc.)

Individual pics can be posted if needed.

Thanks for looking..Stan

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: Pull & Mark
Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2012 - 07:41 PM ET
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Stan, The two AA hulls with the box around the AA are the old Compression Formed hulls (note: dull finish of plastic). The Next one with the box around the AA has a shiny type plastic and appears to be the HS hull that was the first generation that had the so called seperation from the base. You should be able to see a notable difference in the finish of the plastic. Shiny compared to a dull finish on the surface plastic. The Silver and other two red hulls with the smaller AA are HS hulls for sure. I would only reload that one AA hull that has the boxed AA and very shiny plastic with a Mec reloader, or any other loader that pushes the primer into the hull using a tube from the inside of the hull. Hope this helps you out and break em all Jeff

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: grntitan
Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2012 - 07:49 PM ET
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The STS(green) and Nitro(gold) are the same hull just different color. They are the best hull for reloading right now hands down.

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: StansCustoms
Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2012 - 09:08 PM ET
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Thanks grntitan...as I thought, but haven't loaded anything but Winchester. Thanks for clarifying.

Jeff..

Thanks for the precise breakdown..

Would I be ahead just to discard all but the HS hulls. The others AA's are in the minority (3/4 hundred...but I have 2 bushels of HS hulls).

...could you comment more on "the so called separation from the base" ?

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: Shooting Jack
Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2012 - 09:18 PM ET
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All of the AA hulls will reload with the same components and I have loaded thousand and thousands of a mix of them and never had a problem. I actually load the remington hulls with the same components also but I don't use near as much powder and use them for skeet and 16 yard line. If you don't want the AA's I'll be glad to pay for you to ship them to me. LOL Jackie B.

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: Rufus80
Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2012 - 09:30 PM ET
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Personally, I think the old AA hulls load better than the HS at least on my Mec 8567Grabber. But STS/NITRO 27 are best.

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: StansCustoms
Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2012 - 10:08 PM ET
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grntitan..

I meant to ask...what makes the Remingington STS and Nitro superior for reloading?

Thanks again Stan...

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: t7731
Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2012 - 10:15 PM ET
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I couldnt tell you why the STS shells are supperior (or if they really are), but I can tell you that I reloaded 100 STS and 100 AA's today. The crimp on the Remington's looks much much nicer. I doubt that means that I will break more targets with them tomorrow.

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: grntitan
Date: Sat, Jul 28, 2012 - 10:31 PM ET
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"...what makes the Remingington STS and Nitro superior for reloading?"

Stan,

Because everybody says so. :)

Seriously though, for me it's the fact that I get more reloads per hull before they hit the trash. Also, I get much better crimps with the Remington over AA's. Believe it or not, crimp is important to shell performance. That is why it is important to achieve proper crimp depth. That for me is about the thickness of a dime in depth.

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: tom90T
Date: Sun, Jul 29, 2012 - 09:18 AM ET
Website Address:

Stan, I have been reloading for about 35 years and I use to only reload the old AA’s until they switched to the new HS types. I noticed that the new AA’s and the gray ones, which are the same, would start splitting from the brass up, about one in every 50 after only three or four reloads. The Remington STS's and Nitro’s and the Gun club are now the only shells that I reload. In fact the steel base Gun Clubs last the longest but I make sure they don’t get wet because they will rust. I also resize all of my shells prior to reloading them. My advice is to sell all of your AA’s or give them to your friends that still reload them. Tom

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: StansCustoms
Date: Sun, Jul 29, 2012 - 10:38 AM ET
Website Address:

Tom..

What loader do you use..? Do you resize with a separate sizer? I also resize prior to reloading...but have been told that I'm doing unnecessary work...if I shoot the shells in the same gun every time..? Thoughts?

Stan

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: StansCustoms
Date: Sun, Jul 29, 2012 - 10:43 AM ET
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Without looking at charts... is there a considerable difference between Remington and Winchester loading components...or can you switch from one hull to another without major loader adjustments.

(I've only been loading subgauge hulls up to now...and shooting Winchester Universals for 12 gauge practice)

Thanks..Stan

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: grntitan
Date: Sun, Jul 29, 2012 - 10:47 AM ET
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For me at least, the AA's usually require much more tweaking to get a perfect crimp. I have been told the wad is everythig with AA's. I just stick with Remington and leave it alone. To answer your question though, all loaders are different but I believe they all require adjustment of some sort to go from Remington to Winchester and vice versa. As mentioned above, keep your eye out for the steel based Remington Gun Club hulls. They are a green ribbed hull and load the exact same as the STS/ Nitro hulls.

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: Pull & Mark
Date: Sun, Jul 29, 2012 - 04:47 PM ET
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Stan the 12 ga. HS hulls reload exactly like the 20 ga. HS hulls. They both like to leave a small hole in the center of the hull after loaded. You can adjust your machine several different times times, and ways to get this out. Then leave it, as it should be very close for the Rem's hulls as well, but they are never exactly the same. This is why most people only load one type of hull. Most loaders like the Remington's for the 12 and 20 gauge, while the Win. AA's are better for the 28 and 410 bores. Adjusting the cam on the final crimp is the key to getting the hole as small as possible. If you don't feel comfortable loading those HS hulls with the shiny plastic with the box around the AA, "Don't". Just toss them in the trash. Pick the hulls you have the most of and load them. Many loaders think the Old Type of Compression Formed hulls are Win. best hulls for loading!!! They may be right!!! Then again??? Maybe you should try both and let me know which one you like the best!!! Good Luck and break em all. Jeff

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: tom90T
Date: Sun, Jul 29, 2012 - 10:32 PM ET
Website Address:

Stan, I use a separate MEC super-sizer and I inspect the shells at the same time. After about 7 to 9 reloads with the Gun Clubs, when the tops start to split, I would load them one more time on my MEC 650 for doubles and toss them. Since I take the time to resize and reload my ammo with what I believe are great components, I have no problem handing a shell to anyone no matter what type of gun they are using. I use International Clays powder with Downrange Figure 8 and Versalite wads with hard shot and a Winchester primer. After fine tuning my press I have shells looking like new even after several reloads. Tom

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: StansCustoms
Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2012 - 02:17 AM ET
Website Address:

Jeff, Tom, Grntitan...everyone.

All the help is very much appreciated , thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with me..."all" very helpful. You guys are the great!!

Thank you again and Best Regards..Stan

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: Setterman
Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2012 - 06:59 AM ET
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If you use a Downrange 12 ga (DRA-12) wad, which is a shorter wad than the standard AA wad you'll have better luck with the AA hull. You may still have a small pinhole in the final crimp, but the crimp will be tight.

I can load both STS and AA hulls now with no adjustment.

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: guinner16
Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2012 - 09:32 AM ET
Website Address:

I use the same exact compenents when reloading AA's and Remingtons. Always a w209 primer, clays, and I will swap Remington and Winchester wads in either hull. I do a standard load so there is plently of load data. I believe the only difference is Remginton makes me drop an extra .2 grain on each drop to get the same speeds. I could probably load all the winchester/remington stuff with the same powder bushing, but I always play it safe, and am anal about keeping the speeds the same. Yes Remington hulls are better, but I get nearly 300-500 free AA hulls every single week. Once my remington stash is gone it will only be AA's for me. If you like Remington, find people tossing gun clubs. Its amazing how many reloads you can get out of them. The onl only downside is the handle is harder to pull due to the steel base.

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: whiz white
Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2012 - 09:38 AM ET
Website Address: http://www.swsupply.com

My preference is based on the fact that I only reload a once-fire hull one time.

I prefer the boxed AA, old style, and the Nitros. I use Win, Rem, & Federal primes and genuine AA wads in both these hulls. Well, I like the Federal papers too, and use the appropriate replacement wad with a over-powder cut diameter of 0.716"-0.718".

WW

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: halfmile
Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2012 - 09:57 AM ET
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Winchester spent years touting their one Piece "compression formed" hull as the best, and it got to be the gold standard, preferred by most.

Remington got close to the mark with the Premier, which was a little thick at the top, and some didn't like to reload them. The Nitro and STS (same hull) are the best ever from Remmy.

Meanwhile, back at the East Alton ranch, the machines were wearing out. New equipment was needed, but the Harvard Business School types didn't like the equipment cost for making CF hulls. So after years of bragging about the one piece hull, the new machines were for making 2 piece hulls. In order to avoid new reloading data they made their center insert the shape of the bottom of the old shells. (all Riefenhauser hulls have a biscuit in the center and are made by slicing an extruded tube, then crimping the metal base around the tube with the insert in it)

The first ones had problems of the center insert coming out and plugging the barrel. I do not know of Winchester replacing any guns, but there were rumors of blowups. Later versions of the HS hull seem to have eliminated the problem.

As did Obama re gay marriage, Wincheter's thinking "evolved" to make 2 piece hulls OK.

(INAPPROPRIATE WORD DELETED BY MODERATOR)

HM

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: OldGoat
Date: Mon, Jul 30, 2012 - 01:04 PM ET
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Stan, the info above is excellent, particularly from grntitan and those who favor Remington STS and Nitros - which I favor over any AA (and I loaded AA for years). Sell the AA empties and focus on the Remingtons. I load the Green STS hulls with 1 ounce of 8s and load the Nitros with 7.5s for handicap. For what it's worth, I seem to get 3 or 4 more loadings with the Nitros than the 6 loadings I get out of the STSs. I have not loaded the steel based Gun Clubs since having problems with them sticking in the chamber. Best Regards, Ed

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: StansCustoms
Date: Thu, Aug 02, 2012 - 12:32 PM ET
Website Address:

Lotta good info here...

20+ somerting years ago I did a little 12 gauge trap loading with a Mec Grabber. Quit shooting till now with over 4,000 shells loaded. Just finished shooting them up a couple of months back...without a "single" blooper.

I used 100% Winchester components and hulls...thinking it was the best available at the time. I hate to jump ship on Winchester...but it looks that's where it's headed..

Thanks Guys..Stan

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Subject: ID 12 gauge hulls (pics)..best for reloads?
From: skipsor
Date: Sat, Aug 04, 2012 - 04:11 PM ET
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If you are getting a small hole in your final crimp this should solve the problem.

A fellow on Shotgun World who goes by the name of Curly No Hair is the resident expert om MEC loaders. His recommendation is to adjust the pre-crimp station until you can't put a pencil eraser in the opening.

When you do the final crimp it should not have a hole. You may have to fine tune the pre-crimp for your loader but it sure worked very well on my Sizemaster.

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