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High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?

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Posted By Posted Date/Time
ColtM1911A1 17-Jun-11 - 03:06 PM ET
Barrelbulge (Pa.) 17-Jun-11 - 03:19 PM ET
Mark425 17-Jun-11 - 03:51 PM ET
ColtM1911A1 17-Jun-11 - 04:19 PM ET
dickgtax 17-Jun-11 - 04:23 PM ET
Dennis DeVault 17-Jun-11 - 04:30 PM ET
sky buster 17-Jun-11 - 04:47 PM ET
Hal1225 17-Jun-11 - 05:09 PM ET
kraiza 17-Jun-11 - 08:50 PM ET
Rich219 17-Jun-11 - 09:06 PM ET
goose2 17-Jun-11 - 11:55 PM ET
Rastoff 18-Jun-11 - 12:18 AM ET
luvtrapguns 18-Jun-11 - 12:25 PM ET
Dennis DeVault 18-Jun-11 - 12:46 PM ET
luvtrapguns 18-Jun-11 - 03:37 PM ET
Rastoff 18-Jun-11 - 04:54 PM ET
markostrunk 18-Jun-11 - 05:33 PM ET
EuroJoe 18-Jun-11 - 06:04 PM ET
dead on 4 18-Jun-11 - 07:28 PM ET
ColtM1911A1 19-Jun-11 - 06:14 PM ET
smsnyder 19-Jun-11 - 06:30 PM ET
dead on 4 20-Jun-11 - 12:26 AM ET
perazzi_01 20-Jun-11 - 01:41 AM ET
oleolliedawg 20-Jun-11 - 10:21 AM ET
dead on 4 20-Jun-11 - 02:13 PM ET
unplugged 20-Jun-11 - 09:15 PM ET
oleolliedawg 20-Jun-11 - 09:18 PM ET
dead on 4 20-Jun-11 - 10:26 PM ET
James.c 20-Jun-11 - 10:47 PM ET
Durango10 20-Jun-11 - 10:56 PM ET
miketmx 20-Jun-11 - 11:02 PM ET
Stl Flyn 21-Jun-11 - 01:32 AM ET
Dr.Longshot 21-Jun-11 - 09:07 AM ET
dead on 4 21-Jun-11 - 03:30 PM ET
oleolliedawg 21-Jun-11 - 03:42 PM ET
1oldtimer 21-Jun-11 - 07:54 PM ET
dead on 4 21-Jun-11 - 08:40 PM ET
mette56 21-Jun-11 - 09:55 PM ET
JACK 22-Jun-11 - 06:05 AM ET
Dennis DeVault 22-Jun-11 - 08:57 AM ET
SMOKIT 22-Jun-11 - 10:07 AM ET
James.c 22-Jun-11 - 10:23 AM ET


Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: ColtM1911A1
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 - 03:06 PM ET
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That's my question - is the standard USA trap gun going to sport an adjustable high rib in the future? Will mid or low ribs be designated for field guns instead of the trap fields.

Always look forward to your opinions; there's a lot of knowledge floating around out there....

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: Barrelbulge (Pa.)
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 - 03:19 PM ET
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From what I see at the range they are. Bulge.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: Mark425
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 - 03:51 PM ET
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Yes...until...all the big guns win with lower ribs . IMO...high ribs will be the standard gun for the foreseeable future and thats a good thing. That said....the ridiculously high, suspension bridge type ribs are rarely seen anymore....thank goodness.

My moderately high ribbed unsingle suits me just fine.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: ColtM1911A1
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 - 04:19 PM ET
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Mark425, are you talking about the Olympic height ribs such as offered on the Ljutic or the P&K guns?

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: dickgtax
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 - 04:23 PM ET
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I know some guy name Leo something-or-other doesn't use one, and he's a pretty good shooter.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: Dennis DeVault
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 - 04:30 PM ET
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Just my two cents,

Being a manufacturer I see the trend to the higher rib being the normal. I do not see the super high ribs becoming a standard though. We have been doing more and more barrels for sporting clays and skeet and all of those disiplines are seeing the advantage of the heads up position. Think about driving a car with our head tilted down or greet somwone with our eyes rolled to the top of the sockets. It is just not a natural position for the eyes to be in. Today I even hunt with a high rib as I can no longer shoot with my head buried behind the receiver,I want to look at what I am shooting at with as much clarity as possible and my belief is the haed has to be up to do that.

Dennis DeVault

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: sky buster
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 - 04:47 PM ET
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I believe adjustable ribs will be the standard in the future.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: Hal1225
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 - 05:09 PM ET
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Not in my future, which is short. Had an "Olympic High Rib" in 1978. I shot it at Bristol Fish and Game and sold it one month later. Never shot one since. Shoot my Dad's Model 12 and my 870 Comp.

Harry

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: kraiza
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 - 08:50 PM ET
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I think the high rib are hear to stay.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: Rich219
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 - 09:06 PM ET
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I could not imagine shooting a flat rib gun in competition. My current gun has an adjustable high rib and all future guns I use for trap will also have adjustable high ribs.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: goose2
Date: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 - 11:55 PM ET
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High as I can get it for me.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: Rastoff
Date: Sat, Jun 18, 2011 - 12:18 AM ET
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Just to stir the pot a little, do you know what a high rib is? For example, this is not a high rib gun:

This is a high rib gun:

See the difference?

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: luvtrapguns
Date: Sat, Jun 18, 2011 - 12:25 PM ET
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If I understand, the recurring theme in this thread is that for a gun to fit you so that you can shoot with an upright head, it has to have a high rib. Please say it is not true. I have too much invested in guns I shoot well that do not have a high rib, but alas, they must not fit me properly because they do not have the high ribs.

I feel that the most important factor in proper upright head position stems from proper stock fit. Lets say you took a high rib gun that positioned your head upright. You then installed a rib that was 1/2 inch lower and at the same time refitted the stock so that all dimensions were 1/2 inch lower to match the sight picture out over the rib. Seems to me that your head would still be in the same upright position. (???) Of course the receiver would be 1/2 inch higher in you sight picture.

And now we come to those of us that are forced to shoot one eyed. Since most one eyed shooters find it necessary to hold at the top of the house when calling so as to get the earliest view of the bird, looking around the receiver or barrel bucomes a moot point as we are always looking over the top of the barrel/rib/receiver. Does a higher rib make a difference to the "one eyed"?

I personally have Ljutic Mono Guns with the standard low rib and a Ljutic Pro 3 with the rib being near 3/4 inch high (.700"). Being forced to shoot one eyed I find I like the longer single plane (non stepped) standard rib of the Mono Guns. One eyed with my low hold point I find no need for the more exotic look of the high ribs. I do admit I like the overall appearance of a gun with a properly done high rib. And I shoot my high rib gun well, not because of the high rib but because the stock fits me well.

Sure would be nice to be able to shoot without always overthinking things. Marc

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: Dennis DeVault
Date: Sat, Jun 18, 2011 - 12:46 PM ET
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To luvtrapguns,

No you do not have to have a high rib to shoot in a heads up position, but the question asked was are the high rib guns here to stay and in my opioion the answer to the question is yes, They are not a fad but a very valid soultion along with proper fit for alot of shooters.

Dennis

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: luvtrapguns
Date: Sat, Jun 18, 2011 - 03:37 PM ET
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Dennis, I agree that they are here to stay, and I have no bones to pick about high ribs. I just felt from the responses that many may feel a high rib was necessary for an upright position. I have long admired the high rib guns you produce but here again, proper fit is of the utmost importance. Thanks, Marc

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: Rastoff
Date: Sat, Jun 18, 2011 - 04:54 PM ET
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If you need a higher rib to get an upright head, you'll also need a higher comb.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: markostrunk
Date: Sat, Jun 18, 2011 - 05:33 PM ET
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Remember when everyone just had to have ported barrels? Now it's hard to sell a ported guns. High ribs are the same sort of fad.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: EuroJoe
Date: Sat, Jun 18, 2011 - 06:04 PM ET
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the lemings current favorite! I can't wait to see what's next.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: dead on 4
Date: Sat, Jun 18, 2011 - 07:28 PM ET
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Were back to the same old thing, What works for me won't work for you and visa versa. I have a friend who has a TM-1 (flat rib) that comes into him with his head straight up and eyes straight ahead. Most guns he picks up are to high for him. Most guns I pick up are to low for me, when I say low, I'm looking at the tang lever, can't come close to seeing rib. My build, 5'-8' barrel chest, no neck, full face, cheek bone high and eye socket low, a good Irish build. I'm not the skinny long necked shooter who is looking to keep his head up and needs a high rib. Now what gun do you think works best for me a flat rib, no a high rib. the lowest rib I do well with is a TMX, any lower and I wash out. The two guns I shoot best are a Guerini unsingle and Perazzi with an add on rib, by the way, I'm a one eyed shoter. When you talk gun fit, these are what fit me best.

Are high rib guns here to stay, yes as long as they fullfill a need they will be part of the shooting scene. High rib guns have been around for a long while and work well for a number of shooters and not well for others but that doesn't mean they're a gimmick, it just means they're not for every one.

I'm not a competition shooter, I mainly shoot pots shoots. That said, competition shooters who are striving to improve will use any little improvement to gain a better score, they would be stupid not to. So high ribs, back boared barrels, reworked chokes, adjustable ribs, combs and pads are all valid in the quest to break more targets and be more competitive.

Surfer

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: ColtM1911A1
Date: Sun, Jun 19, 2011 - 06:14 PM ET
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Well said, Surfer. You are rock solid with your observation, and the reason competitive shooters train and not practice. Again, well said (see below)....

I'm not a competition shooter, I mainly shoot pots shoots. That said, competition shooters who are striving to improve will use any little improvement to gain a better score, they would be stupid not to. So high ribs, back boared barrels, reworked chokes, adjustable ribs, combs and pads are all valid in the quest to break more targets and be more competitive.

Surfer

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: smsnyder
Date: Sun, Jun 19, 2011 - 06:30 PM ET
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I believe the key to the high rib is the stock. It must fit properly.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: dead on 4
Date: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 - 12:26 AM ET
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Hey! Colt1911, thanks for your remarks.... I find it very interesting that many people like MarkoStrunk think all inovation are fads, he must be new to the game. People laughed at release triggers saying they were a joke, just a crutch for a bunch of old has beens, same with fuller stock dimensions,screw in chokes and a host of other additions that are now standard for many top shooters.

If your a competitive pistol shooter Magna porting i.e. pro porting is standard fair and works by the way. If your a competitive rifle shooter you can't wait to get that big glob of a muzzle brake on the end of yor barrel, why because it works. Innovation is whats make the world go round, sure there are a lot of guys will stay in the dark because they're afraid of the light. Yes there still some shooters who smoke ball targets with a model 12 or an 870, but most aren't competitive day over day and you won't find many of those guns if any in the hands top competitive shooters, why because they're old technology.

Lastly, There's always lots of talk about gun fit as there should be. But the greater percentage of shooters make themselves fit there gun claiming the gun fits them perfectly, which they don't. A lot of these shooters would be shocked at what a high rib or an adjustable comb would do for there shooting. Dennis Devault is a good indicator, because he leads and doesn't follow............. Surfer

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: perazzi_01
Date: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 - 01:41 AM ET
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Being mostly a Sporting shooter... been meaning to try a higher rib for some time, as I age I'm finding it more and more difficult to not raise my head and keep the more agressive style that I have shot with over the years...as the day wears on in competition neck and back pain has me standing more upright to shoot....a softer cheek pressure develops and I know I have lost a few targets over the top due to this....I'm in the belief that the more comfortable up right stance and up right head position would be beneficial...specially anyone getting a little arthritic and unable to shoot as they have in younger years...just a thought and not mentioned yet... Have observed Hall of Fame Sporting shooter Jon Kruger shoot high ribbed K80's for years....some times be completely off the stock...actually see space between cheek and comb and still grind targets....I do believe....yes because he is who he is,.. but also because of his rib design allows him to get away with it.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 - 10:21 AM ET
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Years ago when the late Frank Little started shooting great scores with a Perazzi TMX everyone thought it was the answer. We sold dozens of TMX's to aspiring Frank Little's. Within 1 year nearly half were traded in for something else. Many shooters found they couldn't shoot 'em for crap. The same thing is occurring now as many shooters are having difficulty adjusting to the high rib concept and looking for low rib barrels. It's often easier to shoot off the barrel instead of the rib and cross-dominance issues seem to arise more with high ribs!!

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: dead on 4
Date: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 - 02:13 PM ET
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Oleolliedawg, Shooting a new gun is like a new romance, you have to get by the lust and get down to a relationship and a good relationship takes work. I've seen tons of shooters change guns and divorce them before the end of the honeymoon. They never invested any work in their new love, just expecting everything to be dreamy.

You must have a relationship with your gun or anything else in life to do well. Your gun, my gun or whomever,s gun must communicate to them and they must communicate to it to be successful, it can't be a one sided romance. It takes time and (dedication) to establish good communication with anything guns included. The fact is, it takes hard work to rise to top of any endeavor. Shooters who at the top are dedicated and work daly to get there and stay there. Most of us, me included won't invest the effort to scale the ladder, part of scaling the ladder is trying new things in our quest to add just one more target to our score.

Flat ribs, low combs may work for some just like high ribs and combs work for others. But for me or anyone to make a blanket statement that this or that won't work or will cause this or that result is not a fair statement until all options have been explored and the and time and energy have been invested. Take a look at the rib height of the Olympic doubles trap gun, they work for them, but may not for you or me, but the fact is they work.................... Surfer

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: unplugged
Date: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 - 09:15 PM ET
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I understand high ribs on TRAP guns, the target is not dropping. I can only speak to sporting clays and while some do shoot with high ribs, curling and dropping target preset a problem for MANY with the "new" high rib guns. As to Jon Kruger, he doesn't even mount his shotgun ( as was pointed out) to his cheek, so a high rib puts his rib back into his vision. I do find it interesting the folks most apt to change to "new ideas" (ie. MARKETING) is Americans. From a Sporting perpective, it should be pointed out the current National Champion shoots a flat rib gun. So to do the two best shooters in the World of both DTL and Sporting, namely Digweed and Faulds,they don't seem to see any benefit to a high rib for Sporting type targets. So for trap, high ribs are most likely here to stay. For the majority of Sporting shooters, I would bet NOT!

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 - 09:18 PM ET
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Ask Leo!!

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: dead on 4
Date: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 - 10:26 PM ET
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Dawg you and unknown miss the point, flat ribs aren't for everyone nore are high ribs either. Sean Hawley is an example of a shooter who moved from a flat rib to a higher rib and shortly after had a long run of 1100 program double targets, so something must be working for him and his higher rib.

There are many top shooters who have moved to a higher ribbed guns and many who haven't, it's not a static world we live in, I can't believe you're still shifting three on the tree stopping with drum brakes.

When Perazzi came into the U.S. they were considered an interloper an unnecessary addition to a full line up trap guns already in the market and after all they were foreign.............Yikes!!! Why would anyone buy a perazzi and pay that kind of money for a plain jane, the wood looked like it came from an orange crate ?? Gee, maybe because their dynamics were far superior and there loc time were faster than most any gun available at the time. What did Perazzi represent? a major step forward in Technology once there guns got in the hands of Bonillas and others they forever change trap shooting. Ask Perazzi or Beretta if their ultra high rib Olympic guns are marketing gimmicks. What guns do you guys shoot Mossburgs.

I can't agree with either of one of your views, If I did, then three of us would be wrong.

Surfer

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: James.c
Date: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 - 10:47 PM ET
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could the heads up position issue not be fixed by a larger drop at the comb to the shoulder?

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: Durango10
Date: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 - 10:56 PM ET
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I just wish I could shoot what I have!!! Consistantly!! High Or Low!

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: miketmx
Date: Mon, Jun 20, 2011 - 11:02 PM ET
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"a major step forward in Technology once there guns got in the hands of Bonillas and others they forever change trap shooting."

Although Dan Bonillas endorsed the DB81 and advertised in Trap & Field, he in fact couldn't shoot it and used his conventional rib MX3 instead. Ray Stafford actually made the DB81 popular and as oleolliedawg pointed out many shooters got rid of them because they used the mass of the barrel instinctively and not the rib.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: Stl Flyn
Date: Tue, Jun 21, 2011 - 01:32 AM ET
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Frankly, I am suprised it took that long for an argument to break out. I really think that the un-single barrel started the high rib look, and from there it went to the Kolar Max, K-80 Special, Blaser F-3, etc. I think those extra high ribs will not last, once everyone tries them. Some it is good for, don't get me wrong. Most will resort to the standard height un-single, which as pointed out above, are not the same. It is more of a top-single, un-single comparison.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: Dr.Longshot
Date: Tue, Jun 21, 2011 - 09:07 AM ET
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On high rib guns the POI has to be where you are shooting, pattern at 13 Yards 1st and then the pattern board at 33 to 40 yards, depends on the distance where you break your targets.

Some people need low rib gus, some need or prefer high rib guns.

But have you noticed the price drop on Blasers from over $10,000 to $8495 on the combos, I noticed it on the computer on vendors prices and at the Buckeye classic

I know shooters who did not like the Blaser and went to a Caesar Guerini, they just said the could not shoot the Blaser.

I am awaiting my gun to arrive for the Ohio State w/the new 34"inch O/U Bbls with the Mid Rib, it is an Impact "T" Bbl, I like the 34" inch Perazzi Bbl that Ray Stafford sold a few years back, but over $3500 for the Bbl was a killer.

I like the feel of the Blaser, I would like to try one someday. 3 buddies still have them and 2 have sold them.

I personally feel that the high rib is here to stay, but they are not for everybody.

I love my CG Un-single, it is a target breaking machine. Poster replies doubt the patterns I get with it, so I quit posting them, their choke tubes are one of the best on the market for patterns.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: dead on 4
Date: Tue, Jun 21, 2011 - 03:30 PM ET
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I think the center point here, some like me think high ribs, adjustable ribs and other additions will remain in the shooting mix going forward. And others think they're a marketing gimmicks and will die out becoming part of trap shooting history. Only time will tell where this will end.

I'm out of urine and nothing left to squirt over the rail, so I'm bowing out. You stated your thoughts and I stated mine and world is still spinning.

Have a good shooting season.

Surfer

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Tue, Jun 21, 2011 - 03:42 PM ET
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As a gun dealer for over 25 years and counting, I can only relate past and present experiences. The high rib concept will simply not work for everyone as many shooters are currently finding out. It's plenty easier to pick up a gun and immediately shoot it well than being forced to struggle learning a new concept. I'll also add there are guns out with high ribs whose manufacturers have supplied with stocks that fit virtually no one. I refuse to mention names!!

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: 1oldtimer
Date: Tue, Jun 21, 2011 - 07:54 PM ET
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I find it rather amazing the feats and accomplishments of trapshooters like,Arnold Riegger,Cliff Doughman,Dan Orlich,Ned lilly,Vic Reinders,Rudy Etchen,Joe Hiestand, just to name a few. Most of them used low cost pump action or even some Model 37 Winchester singles with no rib,no bells or whistles,no plastic wads,sharper angles. Dan Orlich's singles average of .9982,thats .18 hundreds lost per 100 targets,not too shabby for a simple gun from 1968. I think the advent of 3-1/4 dram handicap AA shot shells with magnum shot & shooters shooting large numbers of targets had more impact on trapshooting than all the bell & whistle gimmicks. Have the modern guns with all their bells & whistle gimmicks really improved shooting that much ? Clyde

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: dead on 4
Date: Tue, Jun 21, 2011 - 08:40 PM ET
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Clyde, As you'll recall Riegger had a lace up butt pad on his model 12. Depending how the targets were flying he would often times stuff pieces of shell boxes under the laced collar to raise his view and point of impact. Arnold was on the right track, he just lived in a differnt time. No question he and all the old timers were beyond just great shots nad had the scores to prove it. Modern day version of Arnold's shell box shims are adjustable combs, mamy, many trap shooters have fixed low rib guns with combs raised well beyond stacked figure 8 beads, an adjustable rib would negate having a big gap between beads. I don't like a big gap between my beads and I don't like a gun that shoots like a pancake, but that's me. Each to their own.

Sorry, I had a few drops left.................

Surfer

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: mette56
Date: Tue, Jun 21, 2011 - 09:55 PM ET
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for me, high ribs have been the standard since 1972 (Simmons Gun Specialties Olympic Rib).

so there!

:)milt

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: JACK
Date: Wed, Jun 22, 2011 - 06:05 AM ET
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I'll be road testing this gun in a couple of weeks as it returns from refurb by Doug Braker. Needed some blue. And Doug's personal touches to "time and tune" a gun. The rib on my MX3 is just high enough to block out the bbl. Adn the rib on this gun is tapered and concave nearly identical. I have shot TMX guns before and like the feel. This is a Wilkinson tuned bbl and I will need to "lead tape" the bbl to get the balance and trigger coordination just right. It was a nice gun as it was, but now it will be mucho new-like.

BTW, this Wilkinson bbl has a "tipped-up choke" Fixed at .035 but taller vertically. Should be a great handicap gun.

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: Dennis DeVault
Date: Wed, Jun 22, 2011 - 08:57 AM ET
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To Jamesc,

I believe you ment the drop at the heel which would create a deeper drop monte-carlo stock. We have done that here for some shooters but you are limited to the position of the bolt hole in the stock and if you raise the gun too high the line of recoil will come above the top of the shoulder and create face slap as there is nothing in the shoulder to stop the gun from recoiling back and up. Good question and I hope that this answer helps you.

Dennis DeVault

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: SMOKIT
Date: Wed, Jun 22, 2011 - 10:07 AM ET
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Kay Ohye does not shoot a high rib gun--check his averages and number of targets shot...SMOKIT

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Subject: High Ribs - are they going to become the standard?
From: James.c
Date: Wed, Jun 22, 2011 - 10:23 AM ET
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Thanks dennis. i was just unsure.

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