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** Grounding a reloader ??

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Posted By Posted Date/Time
rob111 17-Nov-09 - 03:13 PM ET
Trap2 17-Nov-09 - 03:17 PM ET
AveragEd 17-Nov-09 - 03:24 PM ET
Unknown1 17-Nov-09 - 03:29 PM ET
vpr80 17-Nov-09 - 03:35 PM ET
221 17-Nov-09 - 03:40 PM ET
short shucker 17-Nov-09 - 03:41 PM ET
AveragEd 17-Nov-09 - 04:07 PM ET
threedeuces 17-Nov-09 - 04:29 PM ET
Hoosier Daddy 17-Nov-09 - 04:37 PM ET
trapshootin hippie 17-Nov-09 - 04:44 PM ET
birddog1964 17-Nov-09 - 04:49 PM ET
8 Straight 17-Nov-09 - 04:54 PM ET
vpr80 17-Nov-09 - 04:55 PM ET
OldRemFan 17-Nov-09 - 05:00 PM ET
Bill D. 17-Nov-09 - 05:17 PM ET
wayneo 17-Nov-09 - 05:38 PM ET
Unknown1 17-Nov-09 - 05:44 PM ET
Unknown1 17-Nov-09 - 05:51 PM ET
Quack Shot 17-Nov-09 - 05:55 PM ET
vpr80 17-Nov-09 - 06:10 PM ET
JerryP 17-Nov-09 - 08:20 PM ET
Barry C. Roach 17-Nov-09 - 08:31 PM ET
Post-2 18-Nov-09 - 12:35 AM ET
221 18-Nov-09 - 02:16 AM ET
Auctioneer 18-Nov-09 - 08:19 AM ET
cubancigar2000 18-Nov-09 - 08:38 AM ET
Charles.F.Phillips 18-Nov-09 - 08:41 AM ET
AveragEd 18-Nov-09 - 08:49 AM ET
Pat Ireland 18-Nov-09 - 09:47 AM ET
Unknown1 18-Nov-09 - 02:27 PM ET
Pat Ireland 18-Nov-09 - 02:58 PM ET
Luvs2shoot 18-Nov-09 - 04:29 PM ET
zzt 18-Nov-09 - 05:29 PM ET
quartering 19-Nov-09 - 05:33 AM ET
OldRemFan 19-Nov-09 - 08:15 AM ET
JerryP 19-Nov-09 - 12:10 PM ET
Unknown1 19-Nov-09 - 12:25 PM ET
870 19-Nov-09 - 12:43 PM ET
AveragEd 19-Nov-09 - 12:46 PM ET
870 19-Nov-09 - 01:02 PM ET
JerryP 19-Nov-09 - 01:14 PM ET
DTrykow 19-Nov-09 - 01:55 PM ET
quartering 19-Nov-09 - 01:58 PM ET
221 19-Nov-09 - 02:51 PM ET
Unknown1 19-Nov-09 - 03:19 PM ET
rob111 19-Nov-09 - 03:21 PM ET
JerryP 19-Nov-09 - 04:05 PM ET
221 19-Nov-09 - 04:13 PM ET
short shucker 19-Nov-09 - 04:33 PM ET
quartering 19-Nov-09 - 07:14 PM ET
DTrykow 19-Nov-09 - 10:07 PM ET
Pat Ireland 20-Nov-09 - 07:13 AM ET
quartering 20-Nov-09 - 08:41 AM ET
M-16 20-Nov-09 - 10:09 AM ET
JerryP 20-Nov-09 - 01:49 PM ET
quartering 22-Nov-09 - 12:32 AM ET
JerryP 22-Nov-09 - 02:29 PM ET
jbbor 22-Nov-09 - 04:02 PM ET
Pat Ireland 22-Nov-09 - 04:31 PM ET
Dave P 22-Nov-09 - 06:52 PM ET
Quack Shot 22-Nov-09 - 10:08 PM ET
quartering 22-Nov-09 - 10:18 PM ET
221 22-Nov-09 - 11:00 PM ET
Quack Shot 22-Nov-09 - 11:06 PM ET
Pat Ireland 23-Nov-09 - 06:32 AM ET
JerryP 23-Nov-09 - 01:35 PM ET
Quack Shot 23-Nov-09 - 01:46 PM ET
Pat Ireland 23-Nov-09 - 05:36 PM ET
quartering 23-Nov-09 - 08:09 PM ET
Quack Shot 23-Nov-09 - 08:22 PM ET
Unknown1 25-Nov-09 - 11:14 AM ET
poacherjoe 25-Nov-09 - 12:43 PM ET


Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: rob111
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 03:13 PM ET
Website Address:

I know this must have been covered.. I missed it .. Please -what is the best way to ground.. Respectfully , Rob Mize

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Trap2
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 03:17 PM ET
Website Address:

Rob.. I drove a 6' copper grounding rod into the earth right outside my loading room. Cleaned the paint off one corner of the MEC and ran a copper wire from it to the ground. worked great, no problems.... Dan Thome (Trap2)

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: AveragEd
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 03:24 PM ET
Website Address:

Most wall outlets have a ground tab in the lower left corner with a green screw in it - it's visible if you just remove the outlet cover. If you connect a wire from your loader to that screw, the loader will be grounded through your home wiring.

Ed

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Unknown1
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 03:29 PM ET
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Rather than poking around inside a receptacle box just attach an eye terminal to the end of your ground wire and put it under the screw that holds on the cover plate; it goes to the same ground.

MK

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: vpr80
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 03:35 PM ET
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Inform me...why ground a reloader?

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: 221
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 03:40 PM ET
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Urban myth.....Waste of time.....We have all heard of reloaders blowing up shotguns, but never a reloader blowing itself up....HeHeHeh

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: short shucker
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 03:41 PM ET
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If people would humidify their reloading area, all the static problems will go away. If you notice, nobody has problems in the warm months when the air is humid.

The static charge that is present in new powder jugs can be eliminated by letting it breath a bit before dumping powder into the loader.

ss

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: AveragEd
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 04:07 PM ET
Website Address:

MK, that is correct IF the cover screw isn't plastic, which most newer ones are. Then there is no contact with the outlet's ground.

Substances develop an electrostatic discharge by rubbing against another surface. Powder does that simply by sliding through your loader unless the humidity in the area is controlled or the loader is grounded.

If your loader is operated by an AutoMate, it is grounded by being attached to a grounded electrical device.

Ed

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: threedeuces
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 04:29 PM ET
Website Address:

If your lucky and the room you reload im is not finished off you can ground your reloader to the copper water piping in your house.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Hoosier Daddy
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 04:37 PM ET
Website Address:

Use an anti static dryer sheet. Rub he tube with it and hang a piece inside the tube.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: trapshootin hippie
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 04:44 PM ET
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Maybe we need to ground our shotguns too. Might keep so many from blowing up. Static electricity trapped inside the shell while being loaded seems like the culprit to me. I can just see it now, a ground rod at each station and the puller won't turn the voice calls on till each shooter has attached the ground wire to the trigger guard. Gotta idiot-proof the game ya know.

Gne J

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: birddog1964
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 04:49 PM ET
Website Address:

using any outlet will work as long as the outlet has a ground hole or 3 hole plug, run a wire from the screw that hold the outlet cover on {the screw grounds not the cover} to the base of your loader and you are grounded.

thanks lee

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: 8 Straight
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 04:54 PM ET
Website Address:

I found a better way yet. I had a lot of trouble with a 28 gauge loader, going so far as to spray Static-Guard in the hopper, hanging a piece of fabric softner sheet in the hopper, and running a ground wire. Nothing worked. I stopped using 800X, and what do you know, the static problem went away. 800X must be the most static powder ever made. Anyone else ever have a problem with it? RK Miller

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: vpr80
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 04:55 PM ET
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Still have no idea what you guys are talking about...what exactly happens?

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: OldRemFan
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 05:00 PM ET
Website Address:

Gne J

I think you may be onto something there. I believe there may be a market for grounding wires. Different colors for different shotguns and makes of loaders. Plain, flamed finish, gold for the big spenders. etc.

CG better look into this problem also, it may have caused them a lot of unwarranted, bad publicity.

Maybe the potential for a class action suit against everyone who has sold a loader and didn't furnish a ground wire. Lots of possibilities here.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Bill D.
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 05:17 PM ET
Website Address:

I ran a copper wire from my reloader to a water pipe that runs behind it. I used copper connections from my local home improvement store.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: wayneo
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 05:38 PM ET
Website Address: http://www.trapshooters.com/cfpages/sthread.cfm?threadid=199527

Here is a thread from a month ago. For your reading enjoyment. Wayne

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Unknown1
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 05:44 PM ET
Website Address:

"MK, that is correct IF the cover screw isn't plastic, which most newer ones are. Then there is no contact with the outlet's ground."

I'll take your word for that, Ed. I moved into my new house in August and all 56 receptacle screws and 66 switch plate screws in it are steel. Musta got old stock.

MK

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Unknown1
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 05:51 PM ET
Website Address:

"Still have no idea what you guys are talking about...what exactly happens?"

Did you ever put your hands on a Van deGraff generator in science class and have your hairs all stand on end? That's what happens if your loader isn't grounded; the powder flakes all stand straight up and refuse to move.

MK

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Quack Shot
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 05:55 PM ET
Website Address:

I've found the best way to control static is to control the humidity. Winter is usually the issue, so a small humidifier can work wonders. Dehumidifier in the summer if the humidity is very high, but that has little to do with static.

Grounding the press is ok, as long as you have frequent contact with it to dissipate static from your body. The 1 Meg Ohm resistor is a MUST! All of the ESD grounding straps and mats use the resistor, whether in the individual device or located at a central connection point. It allows static to dissipate, while limiting current. A water pipe ground might be the best point to ground to. I don't usually trust house wiring, unless you have the means to verify the ground. You can put antistatic mats in the bottom of the bins holding your hulls and wads if you really want to get involved in all of that, or place the bins on top of one of those mats.

Using a grounding device for the press operator is another option. The wrist band style used for ESD applications would work. They usually have the 1 Meg Ohm resistor built in. They have simple clip ons and some that actiuallt test and make contact with the ground in the house wiring. An anti-static mat is another option. You stand on it while operating the press. These have the 1 Meg Ohm resistor in series, unless they are designed to be connected to a central dedicated circuit with the resistance already in the line. I posted a lot of this before.

The point is to add the resistor in series, or buy a device that already has one.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: vpr80
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 06:10 PM ET
Website Address:

MK, never reloaded shotgun, but I've never had that problem on my XL650 for handgun ammo. A few (<10) flakes will cling to the side of the bottle, but that's about it.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: JerryP
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 08:20 PM ET
Website Address:

vpr80, you are right, that's about it. Waste of time.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Barry C. Roach
Date: Tue, Nov 17, 2009 - 08:31 PM ET
Website Address:

I don't use poly bottle for powder. Much less static electricity build-up and discharge. No flow problems with a mini vibrator touching the drop tube.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Post-2
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 12:35 AM ET
Website Address:

A well known shooter in Oregon had a ignition on his PW. The cause was attributed to static electricity. If you have no concerns don't ground your reloader it is as simple as that. I have always grounded mine going on 40 years and have not had a incident. Two electricians in the family and they both think it is a good idea. Post-2

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: 221
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 02:16 AM ET
Website Address:

If you want to create sparks around your reloader then ground it. You walk in reach up and touch your grounded reloader and it may cause a spark. Sounds like a plan.

Other than while working around computers and circuit boards...where static release can ruin circuits and the person is grounded..The only reason you ground anything electrical or even mechanical is to protect a person in case that item gets energized. Even water lines must be bonded these days, not to use it for a ground, but to bond it to your ground system......water lines are plastic now and attaching an appliance to a water line can get you killed. My company works with electrical components and one of my buildings has almost 3 dozen ground rods.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Auctioneer
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 08:19 AM ET
Website Address:

To see if you have or still have a static problem all you have to do is put your finger on the powder jug below the powder line and slide it up. If the powder stays in place you are fine. If the powder goes up with your finger you have a static problem.

IF you use those damn static cloths or sheets be sure that they are short enough to not block the powder tube. That has happened to some people. Be sure that you tape the cloth to the side of he tube so they do not drop down also.

I grounded my loader by running a cooper line to the house phone ground line which was just outside my reloading door. The phone co told me that they had to now attach it to the Vepco power line ground. He had a meter that before he did so showed a number of 10 on it. He said he needs to get it down to 0 or close to it. When he ran the line to the Vepco ground and attached the phone ground it went to 0. He smiled and said thats what he wanted. I put my ground on that ground.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: cubancigar2000
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 08:38 AM ET
Website Address:

shortshucker = we do not have humidity here in the Northwest, grounding does help with static

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Charles.F.Phillips
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 08:41 AM ET
Website Address: http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

The cartridges for the 225th Anniversary of the Battle of Yorktown were to be packed in plastic baggies. That caused an uproar, so Peter Schaaphok (Yorktown event coordinator and then current President of the Brigade of the American Revolution, Main Dept.) wrote to GOEX to see what came from the horse's mouth. His email posted on RevList is copied below.

Keep in mind that black powder is classed as a "low explosive" and is far more sensitive to spark than smokeless powders.

You judge for yourself. However, while I am inclined to believe it intellectually, particularly since I've seen those photos, I will still do everything I can to avoid static electricity just to be on the safe side. I'm certainly going to avoid lightning (which is around 100KV), but if I do get hit, I think that gunpowder on my person will be the least of my worries... :-)

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html

"Dear List,

Regarding the concerns that have been raised about plastic bags inducing static electricity and thus being inappropriate for the storage of black powder cartridges, I thought it might be worthwhile to check with an actual manufacturer of black powder.

I thus wrote to Goex and asked about this issue. Here is the response:

"There is no safety issue whatever in storing paper blanks filled with black powder in zip-lock LDPE bags. Static electricity is a non-issue. Studies by the German military just after World War I demonstrated that static electricity will not ignite black powder until voltage levels reach the range of 100,000 volts.

"A burning ember or a spark is entirely another matter, but if static electricity is the concern, you are perfectly safe with storage in a zip-lock bag."

So I guess we can say "MYTH BUSTED!"

Yr svt
Peter Schaaphok"

As I said before, I would always lean towards safety, but I also think that static electricity is not a reason to get one's panties in a bunch.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: AveragEd
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 08:49 AM ET
Website Address:

I've told this story on here before so if it is a rerun for you, just go on to the next post.

A few years ago, I bought into the "you-gotta-load-with-a-baffle" theory and bought the one most highly regarded by posters on here, the red plastic one. A short while later, I had to weigh eight boxes of shells out of a recently loaded flat after the first two boxes contained perhaps 40% bloopers. The light shells were cut open and I found anywhere from a few flakes of powder to four grains under the desired weight in them.

Looking into the cause led me to my loader, which was (and still is) grounded. I found that the interior of that plastic baffle was black and wondered why. As soon as I touched it, it turned red again when the powder clogged in it fell into the bushing because I removed the electrostatic charge within it by touching it. Even though a ground was present, plastic is a poor conductor so the effects of the ground stopped at the top of the charge bar housing, allowing static to develop in the baffle.

That baffle now resides in my "junk-that-I-don't-want-to-buy-again" box. Twice thus far, I've checked in that box and found that something I was about to buy already didn't work for me in the past.

Ed

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Pat Ireland
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 09:47 AM ET
Website Address:

Others, more knowledgeable than I am have suggested that it is more important to ground yourself than ground your loader. It is also possible that grounding your loader to a screw on a receptacle can cause problems. The screw has a direct connection to the ground bar in your breaker box and feedback from this ground is possible. Grounding your loader will not have much of an effect on a static charge in the powder hoppers (see Ed's note).

A static charge in the loader could result in light charges but it is not a safety issue. Anti-static paper that is used for cloths dryers work by adding a substance (I forgot what it is) that I don't want in my powder.

Pat Ireland

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Unknown1
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 02:27 PM ET
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Pat,

I suspect then that grounding a loader to any part of the house's electrical system would possibly produce the same effect??

If Ed did eliminate a static charge in the hopper by touching it, perhaps people who feel the need to ground something should concentrate on grounding the hopper rather than the entire loader. Could it be as simple as taping over one end of a wire to the side of the hopper with HVAC tape and attaching the other end to ground. I'd assume that the conductivity would have to be at least as good as it is through Ed's body.

MK

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Pat Ireland
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 02:58 PM ET
Website Address:

MK- The powder hoppers I am familiar with are non conductors. I agree with you about grounding to any part of the homes electrical system. All of the ground wires end up at the same place in the breaker box.

Pat Ireland

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Luvs2shoot
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 04:29 PM ET
Website Address:

Careful Rob, if you take Hoosier Daddy's advice and rub the tube with an anti-static dryer the sheet the tube is likely to get excited, prematurely drop a charge of powder and ultimately try to tell you that this has never happened before. LOL!!!!

See you at the next calcutta - dog -

John Ertel

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: zzt
Date: Wed, Nov 18, 2009 - 05:29 PM ET
Website Address:

I lined the inside of my polycarbonate powder hopper with a sheet of Wilson Jones Transparent View Tab 3-ring binder dividers. I did it to stop powders with high nitroglycerin content from melting the hopper. It eliminates that, but is also anti static. Powder never clings to it. Try some.

BTW, I use a metal powder baffle along with the View tab in my Grand powder hopper. Powder never sticks to it, either. My reloader is not grounded, and I have no static, even in the winter.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: quartering
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 05:33 AM ET
Website Address:

i like static so much, i bought a static making machine: a dillon 900 with hull collator. here's what it did: on each powder drop, about half a grain would jump out of the hull. you know how two magnets act when you try to press them together + to + or - to - ? well, that's how the powder and the plastic hull were behaving: repelling one another. here's what i did: i confirmed that my wall outlet was grounded and ran a wire to the powder drop die. that took care of 99% of the problem. the air is dry this time of year. bumping the humidity up to about 50% takes care of the rest of the problem. most people think they have a static problem because they see a few grains clinging to the inside of the powder hopper this time of year. personally, i don't think one has a problem unless it involves powder migration. and yes, grounding the press and controlling the humidity both make huge impacts in eliminating the symptoms of static. good luck with it. btw, a spark of static electricity will not ignite smokeless powder. have you ever tried to ignite powder with a single spark? i have. it can't be done. good luck with it

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: OldRemFan
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 08:15 AM ET
Website Address:

I cannot relate to all the problems some of you have with static electricity effecting your loader. In the more than 40 years I have had my Pacific 266 I have not had a problem with static electricity causing problems with the powder tube or amount of powder dropped. I have used the baffle which came with the loader and it is a flat aluminum disc with about a 1 inch hole in the center and the charges it throws are very consistant as weighed on a good powder scale, especially since I quit using the sizer on the loader and started using the Mec Supersizer to pre-size the hulls. That got rid of one operation on the loader that CAN CAUSE the powder to settle differently into the charge bar.

A couple of people have mentioned the downside to connecting directly to the gound wire on an outlet. I personally have had a lightening strike close enough to my house to take out the phone, television, deep well pump, solder all the low voltage light switches in place and blow two plastic covers off of outlets, and burn all the insulation off an outside antenna wire that came into the house. Breakers are not fastner than lightning. I don't know what would have happened had I had a copper ground wire hooked to a hopper full of a good fast burning trap powder in my loader. Don't care to know, but I suspect at the very least I would have had a really good fire in the loading area. But at the very least if you feel the need to ground your loader please consider what might happen to the ground source you are using.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: JerryP
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 12:10 PM ET
Website Address:

OldRemFan , Nothing would have happened to the powder in you scenario. But had you been using the loader during the lightning srike, you may not have been able to type your response. Grounding a loader to a wall outlet is just plain ignorance.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Unknown1
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 12:25 PM ET
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" Grounding a loader to a wall outlet is just plain ignorance."

Thanks for enlightening us. Aren't you glad we're not all as smart as you?

MK

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: 870
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 12:43 PM ET
Website Address:

I'm sure it helps with the static problem, but seriously, there must be better ways than connecting your reloader to your home's electrical system. Probably never really experience a problem, but the potential tells me it's not even close to being worth it.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: AveragEd
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 12:46 PM ET
Website Address:

I ask a serious question, Jerry. My loader is bolted to a grounded electrical appliance, an AutoMate, which is grounded through its connection to my home's main elctrical panel through a wall outlet. Can you suggest a better ground for the loader?

We have baseboard hot water heat that uses copper pipe and I supposed I could run a wire from the loader to one of the heat units in my gun room and "insulate" all the loader/AutoMate contact points with rubber to remove the loader's connection to the electrical panel, but that might compromise the solid union between the two.

Again, no wise-guy attitude here. I receive questions about such things from readers quite often and don't want to be passing along bad information.

Ed

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: 870
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 01:02 PM ET
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Ed, here is my non-expert view: With the automate, you are already connected to an electrical device, and it is thus grounded for safety. But, if you just have a 9000G for example, grounding doesn't add any safety since there is no contact with the electrical system. There is a potential danger though, the ground circuit can become hot, and it does happen.

Why take the chance if you aren't running an electrical device?

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: JerryP
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 01:14 PM ET
Website Address:

Ed, You know this has been gone over many times here. In the right circumstances, a ground fault, one could be exposed to line voltage by being grounded to the house electrical ground. That is the reason for the 1 meg ohm resistor in ground straps. In a lot of circumstances , regarding static electricity, most loaders are more grounded than people realize. For example, if the loader is in the basement and the person operating it is on concrete, the loader is likely grounded through the person to the concrete. Static electricity will jump to a lower potential regardless of whether that lower potential is grounded or not. Anyone insisting on grounding the loader should use something separate from the house electrical ground. A wire secured directly to a concrete floor would likely work. Since so many are concerned about so much static build up in a loader, how many have ever been shocked touching their loader? A 1 meg ohm resistor in the ground wire from the loader to the outlet ground would eliminate the hazard. Like OldRemFan above, I have never had a problem.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: DTrykow
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 01:55 PM ET
Website Address:

I have a Dillon and I have powder static on and off. Powder actually pops out of the hull and clings to the side like Quartering said. I think it's me casuing the static but I'm on a concrete floor, humidity is 52%. Dillon is plugged in. My question is will the wad push enough powder back down the hull to not to worry about it? Or is this a big deal. Dave T.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: quartering
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 01:58 PM ET
Website Address:

sorry guys, but ground is ground. electricity, whether by lightening or line voltage, seeks ground directly. the juice is not going to "run up" a ground wire to find your hopper full of fast burning powder or you standing there pulling the handle. good luck with it

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: 221
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 02:51 PM ET
Website Address:

quartering...

"sorry guys, but ground is ground. electricity, whether by lightening or line voltage, seeks ground directly. the juice is not going to "run up" a ground wire to find your hopper full of fast burning powder or you standing there pulling the handle."

It sure can if the ground were to be come energized. Highly unlikely, but possible, nonetheless,.

Just what "Electrical Ground" are most of you referring to. There's no "Electrical Ground"....at my house or any of my business. There's a "Neutral"......But no "Ground",in the electrical service. This may shock y'all but thats the way it is, just the reason for ground fault protection.

House electrical systems are an accident waiting to happen.....why would you connect your self or your loader, to it, while "THINKING" you are protecting yourself.

Current electrical codes for industrial/ commercial use, prohibits such a practice.

Grounding is a science in it's self and most will never grasp the mechanics of it.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Unknown1
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 03:19 PM ET
Website Address:

"Just what "Electrical Ground" are most of you referring to. There's no "Electrical Ground"....at my house or any of my business. There's a "Neutral"......But no "Ground",in the electrical service. This may shock y'all but thats the way it is, just the reason for ground fault protection."

I don't know what State (state?) you live in but every description of Romex cable I've ever read describes it as having an "uninsulated ground wire" in addition to the conductors (hot and neutral) and every receptacle I've ever installed has had a green screw in a "ground post". Have these people been making this stuff up? What system are these wires and posts a part of, then.

MK

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: rob111
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 03:21 PM ET
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Thanks for all info.. Ill ground to the wall outlet, Ill let you know what happens.. Respectfully Rob Mize... John its too late I already got the tube.. see you friday.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: JerryP
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 04:05 PM ET
Website Address:

"sorry guys, but ground is ground. electricity, whether by lightening or line voltage, seeks ground directly"

Electricity will seek the path of the least resistance. It may not be the most obvious.

As 221 said, " Highly unlikely, but possible, nonetheless" Why put yourself in a possible situation? If any of you have ever seen a picture of a lightning ground strike, you know the electricity can go every which way, looking for a lower potential. "Ground" is a relative term. Lightning can jump from one cloud to another. As far as static electricity is concerned, A concrete floor is ground.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: 221
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 04:13 PM ET
Website Address:

Google "Arc Flash" if you think grounding protects you.....That's gettin a bit too high tech for the discussion, BUT.....Makes photos of shotgun blowups pretty lame.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: short shucker
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 04:33 PM ET
Website Address:

cuban',

Hence the reason why I stated that you need to humidify your reloading room. I understand that some area's don't have very much humidity.

My reloading room has a carpeted floor and I still have zero issues with static electricity.

My loaders aren't grounded, never have been, I still have zero static issues.

If I've had any hulls that have been stored in plastic containers for a long period of time, I dump them into a cloth hamper a couple of days before using. This eliminates the static charge that has developed.

I let new bottles of powder breathe a couple of hours prior to pouring powder into the hopper. It gets a chance to pick up a little moisture and reduce the static charge.

If I buy new bottles/hoppers for my loaders, I roll a little shot around in them prior to installing them on my loader. The graphite that coats the shot eliminates the static charge present.

I've also noticed that the wads that use a high content of virgin plastic doesn't hold a static charge like the cheaper wads do.

A couple of buddies have had static problems in the past and grounded their loaders with zero improvement. Moisture in the air will go a long way to eliminiating static problems.

ss

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: quartering
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 07:14 PM ET
Website Address:

dave t, didn't mean to dis ya', just got caught up in the debate. no, it's not a big deal. i just don't like the mess. but remember, the hull has a charge and as you seat a wad you might create a spark which...just kidding. as you seat the wad the powder grains clinging to the interior sides of the hull will tend to migrate out of the hull, not be pushed back down into it. you've probably noticed what i'm talking about. also, for the sake of the discussion, i have 6 progressive shotshell reloaders, 5 different brands, 2 with collators. only the dillon with collator has ever shown signs of static cling. i've never taken the collator off to see if that eliminates the problem, but i'm sure that it would. besides, i like having a ground wire running from the powder drop die to the wall outlet just so i can post the virtues of connecting your gun powder directly to the house current via a bare length of 10 ga. copper wire. impresses your friends, looks cool too. anyway, ever wonder how nasa keeps the space shuttle from frying all of its electronics every time it gets hit by a bolt of lightening while sitting there on the launch pad? they ground it. to a wall outlet, i've been told! good luck with it

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: DTrykow
Date: Thu, Nov 19, 2009 - 10:07 PM ET
Website Address:

quartering: we're cool. your dis went right over my head. Anyway I was all set to buy an antistatic mat to stand, plug in and wear a wrist band to discharge myself(keep it clean guys) but now I'm all confused. Who is right? Would someone summerize and come to a conclusion. Dave T.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Pat Ireland
Date: Fri, Nov 20, 2009 - 07:13 AM ET
Website Address:

MK- Your electrical service system has a hot wire (black) an neutral wire (white) and a ground wire (bare). But if you look in your box, the neutral wires and the ground wires are connected to each other on the same bar. I don't have a problem calling the white and bare wire both grounds (others do have a problem with this). They connect to each other and go to the same place, the ground.

Pat Ireland

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: quartering
Date: Fri, Nov 20, 2009 - 08:41 AM ET
Website Address:

summary? sure. the chance that grounding your dillon in some manner will mitigate the effects of static attraction while reloading is relatively high and the chance that grounding your dillon in some manner will result in a catastrophic electrical event is relatively low. btw, i'd try the mat and the umbilical cord that you mentioned. that seems to be the latest thing in static control. and report back, i'd be curious to know how it works. good luck with it

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: M-16
Date: Fri, Nov 20, 2009 - 10:09 AM ET
Website Address:

Grounding your reloader does not eliminate the possiblity of a static discharge. This happens when two differently charged items meet. REF. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_electricity From working at MSA's circuit board facility we were taught that a static discharge can be over 200,000 volts no amp's though. This can cause a componet for a circuit board to be come defective by shorting it out from a hole burnt in to it from the charge. Basicly we had to be grounded to what ever we were going to touch to avoid this. A wrist strap connected to the loader would be grounded. Also air or powder passing through/ over a plastic can cause static. Grounding to your electrical system or copper piping. The white wire and ground wire if wired properly are connected to the same thing in your electrical panel and connected to gronding outside. Also copper piping is also grounded to the same thing [usealy] A simple way to avoid a static discharge around your power is touch the reloader base before touching the power bottle as you have already released any disferences in your charged state. Carpet under your feet and dry air is a recipe for making static electric. Check the web if you are at all concerned about this instead of 50 diffrent views on here. Some right some questionable.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: JerryP
Date: Fri, Nov 20, 2009 - 01:49 PM ET
Website Address:

DTrykow, Don't waste your money on an antistatic mat. Grounding will not eliminate the static you see on your hulls. It also won't eliminate any static electricity on the powder and shot hoppers. Plastic is a nonconductor and the charge will remain.

I will be happy to summerize and come to a conclusion for you. Here it is: forget about it.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: quartering
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 - 12:32 AM ET
Website Address:

hello jerry, great summary. however, i disagree with both it and your conclusion. you've confused nonconductivity with static attraction. and you failed to offer a solution to a problem for which there are solutions. so, what was the purpose of your post? or are you just another disgruntled dillon sl 900 owner who is way in over his head? you've completely missed the target on this one, buddy. care to reload, step up a little closer to the line of flight and take another shot at it? good luck with it

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: JerryP
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 - 02:29 PM ET
Website Address:

quartering, Not sure what you think I am confused about. I stated you cannot eliminate static electricity on a nonconductor by grounding it and that is an inescapable fact. If the voltage becomes high enough it can jump to a lower potential but that voltage which is below what is needed to jump will remain. A nonconcuctor is an insulator because electrons will not flow through it. So grounding it does nothing. On the other hand, just about anything can be a conductor if the voltage is high enough. But that is way beyond what is being discussed here.

The best solution is offered by short shucker with his comments about humidity. To actually have the problems mentioned here I think the humidity would have to be extremely low and umcomfortable to be in.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: jbbor
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 - 04:02 PM ET
Website Address:

An Ionizing Air Blower is the safest, most effective way to "ELIMINATE" static electricity. Connecting yourself or reloader to your homes electrical system is rediculous as well as dangerous. Jimmy Borum

PS: Pat- Modern day electrical panels have seperate ground and neutral bars although they are connected to the same place at the service connection.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Pat Ireland
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 - 04:31 PM ET
Website Address:

Jimmy- I know the ground neutral boxes have different screw connection on two bars, but I don't know why. The two bars end up at the same place. I don't think that an ionized air blower is the best way to get rid of static potentials, I would much prefer to just get rid of Winter and then the problem would go away.

To Others- Jimmy Borum is a master electrician (retired, I think).

Pat Ireland

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Dave P
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 - 06:52 PM ET
Website Address:

Barrt Roach: Do you mind explaining a little about th vibrator you use? Home made, bought something else? Thanks, Dave

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Quack Shot
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 - 10:08 PM ET
Website Address:

jbbor

That's why I always strongly suggest that anyone making such a connection use a 1 Meg Ohm resistor in series as a current limiting device. If you are going to do it anyway, why not take some of the risk out of it? I've seen a few grounds/neutrals that weren't what they were supposed to be. :)

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: quartering
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 - 10:18 PM ET
Website Address:

simple proof: i just took a plastic sandwich bag, rubbed it on my head and stuck it to the wall. took the #10, bare copper ground wire off of my press and touched it to the bag on the wall and the bag fell to the floor. put the wire back onto the press. rubbed the bag and tried to place it on the powder hopper. no can do. rubbed the bag. stuck it back to the wall. touched the ground wire to it, again. it fell to the floor, again. my experience is that by grounding the powder drop die, i neutralize any static charges between both the powder and the hull which results in a 99% containment of powder grains which would otherwise migrate out of the hull due to, what i have always assumed to be, static effects generated by the hull collator. again, my only proof is in the results i have garnered through experimentation to find a solution to my problem. i am sure, just as you say, that, in theory, grounding should have no effect on static attraction. thanks again and good luck with it

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: 221
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 - 11:00 PM ET
Website Address:

quartering

I'd be more inclined to think your ground has current in it. Did you check to see if it had voltage.....it's not unheard of in residential or commercial electric.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Quack Shot
Date: Sun, Nov 22, 2009 - 11:06 PM ET
Website Address: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_1/1.html

Here's a simple discussion of static electricity and conductive circuits. Be sure to read the "Next Pages". You will find that whether a material is a conductor or insulator (dielectric) has little to do with static electricity, except when transferring electrons THROUGH a material. Static charges can have enough potential to make a conductive path through air.

Here's another place to look.:

http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/static.html

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Pat Ireland
Date: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 - 06:32 AM ET
Website Address:

Quack Shot- Thanks-- Very clear and simple reading. I did have a problem with the statement that graphite is added to powder to prevent static potential. I believe the role of graphite is to help regulate burning rates of powder. But, overall, I enjoyed reviewing several pages of 9th grade Science. I understood it.

Pat Ireland

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: JerryP
Date: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 - 01:35 PM ET
Website Address:

quartering, Your "simple proof" experiment is entertaining but I don't want to think about why that bag is sticking to the wall.

Ionizers do work but I'm not sure how effective just one would be in a home situation with constantly changing air.

Quack Shot, Most people don't have any idea what a resistor is or what to do with it.

This thread will fade away and people will go right on solving their "static problem" by grounding directly to their electrical system.

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Quack Shot
Date: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 - 01:46 PM ET
Website Address:

Pat Ireland

Grahite reduces static transfer by reducing surface contact by friction. At least that is my understanding of it. That doesn't make it true, but it sounded good. :)

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Pat Ireland
Date: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 - 05:36 PM ET
Website Address:

Quack Shot- Powder rubbing against powder will not result in a static potential. Two different types of material have to be rubbed against each other to develop a potential. Graphite does rub against the sides of the bottle and this might develop a charge. On the other hand, burning rates of many powders are regulated in part by the amount of graphite added to the flakes. Graphite slows down the burning rate. Slow burning powders typically have a lot of graphite, and this tends to make them shoot dirtier than fast powders.

Pat Ireland

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: quartering
Date: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 - 08:09 PM ET
Website Address:

we certainly are a wealth of concurring opinions and useful information, aren't we?

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Quack Shot
Date: Mon, Nov 23, 2009 - 08:22 PM ET
Website Address:

quartering

When there's nothing else to do, picking fly poop out of the pepper seems to be it! :)

Pat Ireland

Whatever the graphite is primarily used for, it seems that there could be several reasons to use it. Reducing friction between the powder and the container and whatever else it comes in contact with, may help reduce static and allow it to flow better. It may help as an inhibitor to adjust the burning rate, but I'd leave that up to the engineers to figure it out. I wonder if the powder companies have an interest in the cleaning supply manufacturers? :)

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: Unknown1
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 - 11:14 AM ET
Website Address:

From Ben at Alliant regarding graphite in powder:

"Graphite is added to improve the flow characteristics of the powder and to reduce static buildup. It is only a surface coating so the amount added depends on the pounds in the lot. Thanks for your note."

Ben

MK

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Subject: ** Grounding a reloader ??
From: poacherjoe
Date: Wed, Nov 25, 2009 - 12:43 PM ET
Website Address:

Here's a new twist on this subject,I think every powder has it's own consistency! The only problem I had with the static cling was when I was using AA-Lite powder.All the other powders have worked good.Anyone have anything to add to this?

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