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K-80 blow up

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Posted By Posted Date/Time
635 G 04-May-13 - 02:15 PM ET
grntitan 04-May-13 - 02:16 PM ET
635 G 04-May-13 - 02:19 PM ET
grntitan 04-May-13 - 02:20 PM ET
Mike Hessong* (MH*) 04-May-13 - 03:21 PM ET
hmb 04-May-13 - 03:24 PM ET
YOTESLAYER 04-May-13 - 03:25 PM ET
likes-to-shoot 04-May-13 - 03:41 PM ET
GN7777777 04-May-13 - 06:15 PM ET
SuperXJeff 04-May-13 - 06:57 PM ET
MTA Tom 04-May-13 - 07:18 PM ET
635 G 04-May-13 - 07:40 PM ET
hmb 04-May-13 - 07:56 PM ET
635 G 04-May-13 - 08:08 PM ET
hmb 05-May-13 - 06:44 AM ET
slowdp 05-May-13 - 08:11 AM ET
Hauxfan 05-May-13 - 08:20 AM ET
Shipbuilder 05-May-13 - 08:30 AM ET
hmb 05-May-13 - 08:44 AM ET
MTA Tom 05-May-13 - 09:23 AM ET
635 G 05-May-13 - 10:53 AM ET
Bill Hom 05-May-13 - 11:32 AM ET
MTA Tom 05-May-13 - 11:52 AM ET
ivanhoe 05-May-13 - 12:12 PM ET
Hap MecTweaks 05-May-13 - 12:14 PM ET
BigM-Perazzi 05-May-13 - 05:08 PM ET
635 G 05-May-13 - 06:37 PM ET
Avaldes 05-May-13 - 06:41 PM ET
635 G 05-May-13 - 06:58 PM ET
Johnny 05-May-13 - 06:59 PM ET
EuroJoe 05-May-13 - 07:47 PM ET
hose 'em down 05-May-13 - 08:23 PM ET
hmb 06-May-13 - 08:02 AM ET
Hauxfan 06-May-13 - 10:16 AM ET
hmb 07-May-13 - 08:59 AM ET
Dr.Longshot 07-May-13 - 09:24 AM ET
southjblue 07-May-13 - 09:33 AM ET
high 2 07-May-13 - 10:00 AM ET
southjblue 07-May-13 - 12:35 PM ET
EuroJoe 07-May-13 - 12:55 PM ET
grntitan 07-May-13 - 01:10 PM ET
Hap MecTweaks 07-May-13 - 01:37 PM ET
southjblue 07-May-13 - 03:26 PM ET
Gapper 07-May-13 - 04:45 PM ET
southjblue 07-May-13 - 05:05 PM ET
Old One Eye 07-May-13 - 05:38 PM ET
grntitan 07-May-13 - 05:45 PM ET
scooterbum 07-May-13 - 06:13 PM ET
southjblue 07-May-13 - 06:25 PM ET
argus tuft 07-May-13 - 06:40 PM ET
GW22 07-May-13 - 06:48 PM ET
southjblue 07-May-13 - 07:10 PM ET
oleolliedawg 07-May-13 - 07:18 PM ET
southjblue 07-May-13 - 07:23 PM ET
oleolliedawg 07-May-13 - 08:42 PM ET
southjblue 07-May-13 - 08:49 PM ET
oleolliedawg 07-May-13 - 09:00 PM ET
southjblue 07-May-13 - 09:06 PM ET
kgunron 07-May-13 - 09:08 PM ET
southjblue 07-May-13 - 09:15 PM ET
Johnny 07-May-13 - 09:19 PM ET
kgunron 07-May-13 - 09:33 PM ET
BAD 303 07-May-13 - 09:48 PM ET
Dr.Longshot 07-May-13 - 10:01 PM ET
flyguysdad 07-May-13 - 10:19 PM ET
1perazzi 07-May-13 - 10:25 PM ET
grntitan 07-May-13 - 10:29 PM ET
SuperXJeff 07-May-13 - 11:03 PM ET
HDLLLIII 07-May-13 - 11:10 PM ET
Hap MecTweaks 07-May-13 - 11:48 PM ET
john_carey12 08-May-13 - 08:40 AM ET
Dr.Longshot 08-May-13 - 08:58 AM ET
635 G 08-May-13 - 11:12 AM ET
hmb 08-May-13 - 11:18 AM ET
Johnny 08-May-13 - 12:47 PM ET
likes-to-shoot 08-May-13 - 01:58 PM ET
635 G 08-May-13 - 06:53 PM ET
oleolliedawg 08-May-13 - 06:59 PM ET
oleolliedawg 08-May-13 - 09:17 PM ET
hmb 09-May-13 - 06:27 AM ET
HSLDS 09-May-13 - 07:55 AM ET
oleolliedawg 09-May-13 - 07:58 AM ET
635 G 09-May-13 - 08:27 AM ET
oleolliedawg 09-May-13 - 08:46 AM ET
635 G 09-May-13 - 08:48 AM ET
oleolliedawg 09-May-13 - 08:54 AM ET
scooterbum 09-May-13 - 09:08 AM ET
oleolliedawg 09-May-13 - 09:42 AM ET
scooterbum 09-May-13 - 09:52 AM ET
ivanhoe 09-May-13 - 10:02 AM ET
scooterbum 09-May-13 - 10:02 AM ET
scooterbum 09-May-13 - 10:05 AM ET
bigbore613 09-May-13 - 10:29 AM ET
gailmk67 09-May-13 - 11:23 AM ET
Johnny 09-May-13 - 11:24 AM ET
HSLDS 09-May-13 - 11:57 AM ET
bigbore613 09-May-13 - 12:00 PM ET
southjblue 09-May-13 - 12:07 PM ET
flyguysdad 09-May-13 - 12:51 PM ET
oleolliedawg 09-May-13 - 01:26 PM ET
Johnny 09-May-13 - 01:29 PM ET
gailmk67 09-May-13 - 01:47 PM ET
1perazzi 09-May-13 - 02:05 PM ET
bigbore613 09-May-13 - 02:08 PM ET
1perazzi 09-May-13 - 02:11 PM ET
gailmk67 09-May-13 - 03:02 PM ET
1perazzi 09-May-13 - 03:10 PM ET
gailmk67 09-May-13 - 03:49 PM ET
grntitan 09-May-13 - 04:09 PM ET
Avaldes 09-May-13 - 05:29 PM ET
635 G 09-May-13 - 05:39 PM ET
oleolliedawg 09-May-13 - 09:05 PM ET
ivanhoe 10-May-13 - 08:37 AM ET
oleolliedawg 10-May-13 - 08:52 AM ET
ivanhoe 10-May-13 - 09:23 AM ET
Maurice 10-May-13 - 04:34 PM ET
southjblue 10-May-13 - 04:48 PM ET
oleolliedawg 10-May-13 - 05:04 PM ET
southjblue 10-May-13 - 06:51 PM ET
grntitan 10-May-13 - 06:55 PM ET
southjblue 10-May-13 - 07:04 PM ET
grntitan 10-May-13 - 07:09 PM ET
southjblue 10-May-13 - 07:19 PM ET
grntitan 10-May-13 - 07:32 PM ET
Johnny 10-May-13 - 07:42 PM ET
southjblue 10-May-13 - 07:43 PM ET
grntitan 10-May-13 - 07:56 PM ET
southjblue 10-May-13 - 08:04 PM ET
1perazzi 10-May-13 - 08:09 PM ET
southjblue 10-May-13 - 08:18 PM ET
1perazzi 10-May-13 - 08:31 PM ET
southjblue 10-May-13 - 11:13 PM ET
1perazzi 10-May-13 - 11:24 PM ET
southjblue 10-May-13 - 11:38 PM ET
1perazzi 10-May-13 - 11:52 PM ET
southjblue 11-May-13 - 12:18 AM ET
1perazzi 11-May-13 - 01:21 AM ET
Avatar 11-May-13 - 01:28 AM ET
hmb 11-May-13 - 06:46 AM ET
likes-to-shoot 11-May-13 - 07:21 AM ET
southjblue 11-May-13 - 08:23 AM ET
Johnny 11-May-13 - 11:59 AM ET
Maurice 11-May-13 - 03:25 PM ET
hmb 11-May-13 - 03:33 PM ET
hmb 11-May-13 - 06:37 PM ET
Johnny 11-May-13 - 06:52 PM ET
GN7777777 11-May-13 - 08:44 PM ET
HSLDS 11-May-13 - 09:01 PM ET
grntitan 11-May-13 - 09:15 PM ET
dverna 11-May-13 - 09:48 PM ET
GN7777777 11-May-13 - 09:54 PM ET
Avaldes 11-May-13 - 10:00 PM ET
scooterbum 11-May-13 - 10:02 PM ET
scooterbum 11-May-13 - 10:10 PM ET
1perazzi 11-May-13 - 10:15 PM ET
buster45 11-May-13 - 10:48 PM ET
1perazzi 11-May-13 - 11:29 PM ET
GN7777777 12-May-13 - 08:26 AM ET
1perazzi 12-May-13 - 11:34 AM ET
scooterbum 12-May-13 - 11:57 AM ET
635 G 12-May-13 - 12:00 PM ET
GN7777777 12-May-13 - 12:10 PM ET
scooterbum 12-May-13 - 12:14 PM ET
GN7777777 12-May-13 - 12:16 PM ET
scooterbum 12-May-13 - 12:37 PM ET
oleolliedawg 12-May-13 - 02:10 PM ET
Maurice 12-May-13 - 03:56 PM ET
In Clay We Crush 12-May-13 - 04:43 PM ET
hmb 12-May-13 - 05:42 PM ET
GN7777777 12-May-13 - 07:23 PM ET
oleolliedawg 12-May-13 - 07:27 PM ET
hmb 12-May-13 - 08:08 PM ET
GN7777777 12-May-13 - 08:31 PM ET
hmb 13-May-13 - 11:19 AM ET
jimctrap 15-May-13 - 09:45 PM ET
1perazzi 15-May-13 - 10:15 PM ET
grntitan 15-May-13 - 10:20 PM ET
Hap MecTweaks 15-May-13 - 10:31 PM ET
1perazzi 15-May-13 - 11:37 PM ET
Dr.Longshot 16-May-13 - 09:25 AM ET
gailmk67 16-May-13 - 10:44 AM ET
1perazzi 16-May-13 - 10:44 AM ET
scooterbum 16-May-13 - 11:44 AM ET
1perazzi 16-May-13 - 11:49 AM ET
likes-to-shoot 16-May-13 - 01:43 PM ET
oleolliedawg 16-May-13 - 02:22 PM ET
gailmk67 16-May-13 - 04:04 PM ET
likes-to-shoot 16-May-13 - 04:31 PM ET
southjblue 16-May-13 - 04:35 PM ET
1perazzi 16-May-13 - 04:52 PM ET
gailmk67 16-May-13 - 05:32 PM ET
southjblue 16-May-13 - 05:33 PM ET
ivanhoe 16-May-13 - 05:35 PM ET
southjblue 16-May-13 - 05:38 PM ET
smokintom 16-May-13 - 05:50 PM ET
hmb 16-May-13 - 06:04 PM ET
ivanhoe 16-May-13 - 06:54 PM ET
1perazzi 16-May-13 - 07:22 PM ET
southjblue 16-May-13 - 07:24 PM ET
southjblue 16-May-13 - 07:54 PM ET
ivanhoe 16-May-13 - 08:19 PM ET
southjblue 16-May-13 - 08:39 PM ET
smokintom 16-May-13 - 09:06 PM ET
southjblue 16-May-13 - 09:20 PM ET
smokintom 16-May-13 - 09:36 PM ET
smokintom 16-May-13 - 09:53 PM ET
hmb 17-May-13 - 06:23 AM ET
635 G 17-May-13 - 07:06 AM ET
jhoward 17-May-13 - 08:17 AM ET
MTA Tom 17-May-13 - 09:25 AM ET
oleolliedawg 17-May-13 - 09:33 AM ET
ivanhoe 17-May-13 - 11:26 AM ET
G4AV8R 17-May-13 - 11:50 AM ET
hmb 17-May-13 - 12:08 PM ET
oleolliedawg 17-May-13 - 12:40 PM ET
gailmk67 17-May-13 - 01:50 PM ET
southjblue 17-May-13 - 04:44 PM ET
1perazzi 17-May-13 - 05:50 PM ET
ivanhoe 17-May-13 - 06:35 PM ET
racer 17-May-13 - 08:22 PM ET
southjblue 18-May-13 - 09:34 AM ET
1perazzi 18-May-13 - 11:02 PM ET
Avatar 19-May-13 - 01:43 AM ET
hmb 19-May-13 - 08:54 AM ET
Leo 19-May-13 - 08:59 AM ET
southjblue 19-May-13 - 09:26 AM ET
oleolliedawg 19-May-13 - 01:59 PM ET
1perazzi 19-May-13 - 02:15 PM ET
southjblue 19-May-13 - 02:49 PM ET
1perazzi 19-May-13 - 03:05 PM ET
southjblue 19-May-13 - 04:00 PM ET
oleolliedawg 19-May-13 - 04:20 PM ET
southjblue 19-May-13 - 04:46 PM ET
southjblue 19-May-13 - 05:27 PM ET
Jon Reitz 19-May-13 - 05:29 PM ET
southjblue 19-May-13 - 05:37 PM ET
oleolliedawg 19-May-13 - 05:57 PM ET
1perazzi 19-May-13 - 08:23 PM ET
Avatar 20-May-13 - 01:55 AM ET
Cyrus 20-May-13 - 07:24 AM ET
635 G 20-May-13 - 11:08 AM ET
likes-to-shoot 20-May-13 - 11:38 AM ET
635 G 20-May-13 - 11:48 AM ET
likes-to-shoot 20-May-13 - 12:21 PM ET
hmb 20-May-13 - 12:24 PM ET
oleolliedawg 20-May-13 - 01:25 PM ET


Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 02:15 PM ET
Website Address:

Heard today the most reasonable explanation of the recent K-80 blow up. Look @ the photo, there appears a lot of burns on the upper barrel. This indicates excessive head space. Excessive head space will cause the barrel to cant to the right in the receiver and this will cause receiver failure. If your barrel has any side to side play get it serviced.

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: grntitan
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 02:16 PM ET
Website Address:

But didn't Krieghoff just service that gun? Why would they not have noticed that then?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 02:19 PM ET
Website Address:

A company is as good as its worst employee !!!!

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: grntitan
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 02:20 PM ET
Website Address:

Very true Phil.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Mike Hessong* (MH*)
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 03:21 PM ET
Website Address:

635 G, I might have to agree with you, but I take exception in this case. I know the old saying that the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, BUT I have met most of the gunsmiths from Krieghoff (when they rotate thru their vendor and repair building in San Antonio during various shoots during the year, I don't "think" they have any "Worst employees". I think your comment is a little off the mark and undeserved.

Mike* (MH*)

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 03:24 PM ET
Website Address:

Phil,

I think you are in La La Land. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: YOTESLAYER
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 03:25 PM ET
Website Address:

Even the best person in any field can miss something, big or small, human error is something that is hard to overcome every single time....

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: likes-to-shoot
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 03:41 PM ET
Website Address:

Pictures were dark and taken by a cell phone......very reliable, lol.

"Look @ the photo, there appears a lot of burns on the upper barrel"........Really, no lie, for goodness sake. The thing was just blown up within 10 minutes of the picture...LOL

Why would Krieghoff even bother to send the receiver to a lab for testing when there are engineering geniuses who can solve the worlds greatest mysteries right here on ts.com....LOL

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: GN7777777
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 06:15 PM ET
Website Address:

Did Krieghoff International Serivce it from Ottsville or some other Krieghoff like Allems or Dupont?

Did the barrel go in when serviced? Doubtful

So another example of you just cant hang a barrel on that some local yahoo has worked on.

The headspace may get you and servicing the receiver and forearm iron will have nothing to do with that.

Regards from Iowa

Gene

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: SuperXJeff
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 06:57 PM ET
Website Address:

Boys... They keep blowing up. Why? It is a well kept secret.Jeff

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: MTA Tom
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 07:18 PM ET
Website Address:

"Excessive head space will cause the barrel to cant to the right in the receiver and this will cause receiver failure."

I don't understand. Can someone please explain why the barrel cants to the right (never to the left?), and how this canting causes the receiver to fail?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 07:40 PM ET
Website Address:

All I know the guy who showed me a sketch, made everything super clear--its a no brainer--do maintenance on all high mileage guns--no problems

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 07:56 PM ET
Website Address:

You are still in La La Land. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Sat, May 04, 2013 - 08:08 PM ET
Website Address:

I don't own a K gun and have no intentions of owning or shooting one. The info I'm putting out is for K gun owners-HMB-- see your proctologist so he can remove your head.

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 06:44 AM ET
Website Address:

Excessive headspace will not cause a K-Gun to blow up. With a lot of extra head space the gun will not even fire. This is because the firing pin will not reach primer. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: slowdp
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 08:11 AM ET
Website Address:

why is it no one puts the pics on the site?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Hauxfan
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 08:20 AM ET
Website Address:

slowdp, I posted the pictures once. Sorry you missed them.

And the second picture.

There, how's that for service, slowdp?

Hauxfan!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Shipbuilder
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 08:30 AM ET
Website Address:

Guys; give Phil a break,he is a Submariner.

After the USS Thresher Admiral RIckover trained those guys to examine the issue(he never used the word problem)and recognize that even the best engineers and mechanics are capable of errors,either in engineering, procedure,or workmanship.

The data seems to indicate,at least to the casual observer, that K80s are experiencing some kind of failure rate that MAY be differnt from other shotguns.

Good engineering would tell us to follow the data, do the engineering analysis and dont be defensive.

Jim

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 08:44 AM ET
Website Address:

It is clear to me that the problem is caused by excessive annual service. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: MTA Tom
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 09:23 AM ET
Website Address:

"Excessive head space will cause the barrel to cant to the right in the receiver and this will cause receiver failure."

I don't understand. Can someone please explain why the barrel cants to the right (never to the left?), and how this canting causes the receiver to fail?

Anyone, please.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 10:53 AM ET
Website Address:

I was told it was engineered into the gun to prevent injury to the shooter.

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Bill Hom
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 11:32 AM ET
Website Address:

Why do you only see K80's blowing up on this site? This is a good enough reason for me not own or even want to shoot one. I'll stick to changing out my Perazzi trigger springs. Bill Hom

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: MTA Tom
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 11:52 AM ET
Website Address:

"I was told it was engineered into the gun to prevent injury to the shooter.

Phil Berkowitz"

Phil, with all due respect, this makes no sense at all to me. If true, it would protect right-handed shooters at the expense of left-handers, and an injured left-hander would have prima facie evidence in a lawsuit that the gun was designed so as to cause him harm!

I simply don't understand the physics of what Phil's trying to explain. Can anyone help?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: ivanhoe
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 12:12 PM ET
Website Address:

What I would like to know is if the the receiver is all black (burned you said) why isn't the what you see on whatever that is in the top barrel the same color????

Also in the picture the whole right side of the bottom barrel is pushed out seems to me that, this alone would be enough to blow out the side of the receiver. Even if the barrel was canted to the right the bottom barrel would be canted the least the top barrel would cant the most. yet the bottom barrel is the one that is blown.

Unless the person that explained this theory to you is an engineer and a metallurgist his opinions are the same as everyone Else's. Just an opinion!!!!

Bob Lawless

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Hap MecTweaks
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 12:14 PM ET
Website Address:

MTA Tom, like you I can't understand how that happens. I have SERIOUS doubts that K guns build in such safety factors as reported to Phil. An automatic law suit that would shift in favor a left hand shooter? That's nonsense to me.

I do believe they (K-guns) try making these receivers and barrels TOO hard through heat manipulation. (My opinion only) When it comes to engraving one, K must do it prior to the hardening process!!

There's way too many coming apart in comparable numbers to other makes to place all the blame on reloads, that's an easy copout excuse that works. Other makes owners also use reloads??

Hap

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: BigM-Perazzi
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 05:08 PM ET
Website Address:

Obviously Tom, if it cants to da right it cants blow up!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 06:37 PM ET
Website Address:

When the person showed me his explanatory sketch--there were 4 supporting blocks ahead or behind the hinge pins--he said when the head space increases- the barrels actually face a little to the right & that is what causes the receiver failure. I'm just the messenger-heed the message if it pertains to you, especially if you have a high mileage K-80. If you bought a used K-80 there is no odometer on the gun!!

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Avaldes
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 06:41 PM ET
Website Address:

Phil, are you sure the guy knew how a K80 works? It doesn't have a Boss lockup like a Perazzi. Only the hingepins and the hood on top lock the barrel in place. The rest of the inside of the rx is smooth. At least that is what I recall and seems to be supported by the pics here.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 06:58 PM ET
Website Address:

The only reason I have posted on this subject I can vouch the person who gave me the explanation is a master gunsmith--low key--doesn't -care a bot gun values-- in int he navy he is referered to as a "No shi--er"

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Johnny
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 06:59 PM ET
Website Address:

bigelow said in the first post;

"Gun was just returned from the factory for annual service."

"Gun will be sent to factory for evaluation and hopefully a positive outcome."

Sounds like a man who takes care of his gun and shoots new shells. This talk of excessive headspace is ridiculous.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: EuroJoe
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 07:47 PM ET
Website Address:

For what it's worth, the one I saw blown up went out the left side.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hose 'em down
Date: Sun, May 05, 2013 - 08:23 PM ET
Website Address:

Looks like an Unsingle barrel set, IMHO. Anyone else see/think this? Nothing to do with the blow up, just saying what it looks like to me.

Ernie ....in AZ.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Mon, May 06, 2013 - 08:02 AM ET
Website Address:

After carefully reviewing all the evidence it appears that the most reasonable explanation for the K Gun blowup is powder detonation. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Hauxfan
Date: Mon, May 06, 2013 - 10:16 AM ET
Website Address:

hose-em-down has it right. It was an Unsingle he was shooting.

Hauxfan!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 08:59 AM ET
Website Address:

We need more pictures. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Dr.Longshot
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 09:24 AM ET
Website Address:

I have been looking at the Barrels on as many models of trapguns as I can, and what I have noticed is the Monoblock on the K-80s is the thinnest Monoblocks out there.

Maybe with the increase of use of the Faster Shells such as Nitro 27, Federal Hdcps, and AA Super Handicaps may be taking their toll on the K-80s.

And the hardness of the K-80 steel a contributing factor. This is just my Personal opinion

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 09:33 AM ET
Website Address:

Gary---Kayohey's and son-in-law have been shooting K-guns for yrs and ea time I see them they look like they shoot the same gun---Must have shot all kinds of super cap loads and so far not a blow up---I also see Ron Sutton using K-gun and he must have many 1000 rounds through them----I appreciate your opinion but it may be wrong---Suggest you contact Krieghoff to substantiate that opinion-----With respect----George@SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: high 2
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 10:00 AM ET
Website Address: http://www.corkelarms.com

I doubt that the hardness of the receiver would play in. It's a very thin layer that has been heat treated. I shoot way more skeet than I do trap and can't ever remember hearing of a K 80 coming apart on a skeet field. My wife and I have shot K 80's for years with very few problems. I do work on Krieghoff's and the biggest problem I tend to find is someone working on them that shouldn't be allowed to take the stock off of one, let alone work on the internals. Also as stated above, just because you can interchange most barrels, doesn't mean that they fit. There is something going on that surely can be explained. Larry

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 12:35 PM ET
Website Address:

Your right Larry---They just like to play up the K-Gun blow up---I'm sure ALL the mfg's have had a blow up of some kind---In all my yrs on TSs I can recall,maybe 3 or 4 K-gun, so called blow-ups----Never remember any being the fault of the K mfg---I'm sure that by now there would be one that goes back to the K-mfg-----JMO----SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: EuroJoe
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 12:55 PM ET
Website Address:

K-80 mono-blocks are actually 2 piece

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: grntitan
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 01:10 PM ET
Website Address:

George(SJB),

You are quick to defend against anything negative said about the Krieghoff guns. That's ok, as I know you own several and have had no issues personally. Just out of curiosity, what do you see as the problem with them coming unglued?

It seems every blowup I personally hear of lately is a K80. Just Say'n....

Where are all the stories of the other makes coming apart? I know there has to be some.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Hap MecTweaks
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 01:37 PM ET
Website Address:

There's no conspiracy against K guns at all George!! Unless people having these guns blow up, hire an independent test lab, neither you nor anyone else will EVER know the true cause!

I would naturally expect the price figures to drop some though, especially on well used models. Those selling a lot of high dollar K guns wouldn't be pleased by that either? It's tough as hell to defend a defect regardless of occurrence or the make?

Hap

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 03:26 PM ET
Website Address:

grntitan---You'r right---I do defend K-Guns as I own several and would not shoot another round if I thought I'd hurt someone nxt to me---I am so concerned that I called KI direct to get their take phone # 610-847-5173-----

It also seems that there are a-lot of others concerned also by the post on TSs.

To me, most of the post are negative and not worthy of the print.

All I ask is to be factual.You say every blowup you hear is a K80---Please talk facts.

How many?---Cause?---Give honest detail---NOT just the ones I heard about.All of the posters above are amateur technicians in my opinion just trying to blast K guns.

I listed the KI phone # above---Try calling to get the facts---

George@SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Gapper
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 04:45 PM ET
Website Address:

Geez; 2 piece monoblocs and hardened steel! Those dang germans.

No need for an independent test lab - we have "trapshooters .com"!

Always good for a laugh. GAP

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 05:05 PM ET
Website Address:

Amateure technicians---They'll solve the problems---Did you ever wonder why K,Harlan Ron Sutton and others would use K-guns with millions of rounds. Better not get nxt to any of them----JMO----SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Old One Eye
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 05:38 PM ET
Website Address:

Also K32's are a lot older most likely been shot more but you never here of them blowing up could it be the softer steel??

I declare myself as a non expert with only observation and common sense skills but some thing is not right. I do not know what but something is happening

If it looks fishy and smells fishy and tastes fishy I am almost sure it is a fish.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: grntitan
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 05:45 PM ET
Website Address:

George,

The few years I've been on this forum, I believe this makes the third K80 that come unglued. In that time, I recall one Browning Citori O/U and one Browning BT99. You ask for cause, well that's where it gets fishy. You never hear the answer. It seems like it all goes hush hush after the smoke clears. Why is that? I'm not guessing what's wrong. I'm just as curious as everyone else.

So if you called Krieghoff, why not tell us what you learned? Why does everyone need to call? Educate me!! What did they say?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: scooterbum
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 06:13 PM ET
Website Address:

I have been around a few guns that blew, but never a Krieghoff.

Soldered monoblocks might present problems.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 06:25 PM ET
Website Address:

Grntitan---As I said above that I called KI and talked to the head service mgr. He assured me that I have no concern about my K-gns in his opinion---He said that there are many reasons for any gun to blow up---I am very satisfied with his response and will let the issue die in my opinion---I suggest to all that you call KI and ask any ??s----I would only be giving a 3rd party response. If I were as spooky as some on this thread,I'd call to get 1st hand info. Don't that make sense?I did my homework---The rest should do the same----

KI phone # is on my post above----

The amateur technicians can keep the thread going----

I will say this---

I was told by a fellow shooter that was there when the gun blew-up and heard a loud noise and one of the guys nxt to the shooter saw a streak of fire come out the bbl---Also was told the shooter wishes this thread would die--- Do I need to say more???

George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: argus tuft
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 06:40 PM ET
Website Address:

I have been watching this post for some time, and I note that when it blew up it was with factory ammo, does this mean that it has always been fed factory ammo?

Here in Australia I am aware of only 3 guns blowing up, one was a Miroku, one I cant remember and the other was a SxS Westerley Richards that blew a rent in the right barrell on the track to my immediate left, the gas blast and the noise were horrific, the gun had been recently refufbished and the barrells honed out, the barrell thickness where it let go was less than 10 thou

reloading here is a thing of the past, the importers and distributors have jacked up the price of components to where it is in most cases more expensive to reload than to buy new ammo, perhaps this is part of the reason guns are not blowing up here.

Here are a couple of instances I have witnessed on the range regarding reloads

1. Noticed a couple of guys shooting a Miroku and the reports were like a cannon going off, friend and I went to investigate, checked ammo, noticed crimps were bulging, dismantled shells, weighed powder, noted 33 grains of ADI AS30, normal load for 1oz 17to 18 grains, it appears that they were using an adjustable charge bar and did not know about the lock screws, they said that they had noticed that the recoil had increased over the past few months, this was 4 or 5 years ago and the gun is still out there, probably just waiting for the right time to come apart with a factory load in the chamber, when it happens who will remember that this gun was repeatedly subject to double charge loads for an extended period. We took the ammo off them and destroyed it

2. Friend and I noticed shooter whose reports sounded more like Black Powder loads without the smoke, went to investigate, found he was using reloads, asked what powder, Reply "rainbow", What do mean rainbow? reply, we were short of powder so we mixed all of what we had together Red Dot, Green Dot and Blue Dot, Fortunately they settled on the Red Dot data, so it was probably burning too slow and that was what was causing the noise, The gun is still in service

These people are among us and they BREED

It is unlikely we will ever hear the full story on this gun or the many other guns that have come apart, and there appears to be a reluctance ever time this comes up to send the gun to an independant lab for full metalurgical testing

Argus Tuft

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: GW22
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 06:48 PM ET
Website Address:

George:

I had to laugh aloud when I read your post about the K.I. head service mgr. saying "...no concern about my K-guns in his opinion." For goodness sake, what else would you expect someone in his position to say? I hope that is not what you were referring to when you said "I did my homework."

-Gary

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 07:10 PM ET
Website Address:

Gary---There was much more in the conversation---Glad I made you laugh--- If you'r so interested,why don't you call KI----I gave the # above--Don't become a typical poster---You have more class--George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 07:18 PM ET
Website Address:

Maybe you should ask George if any of those K-80's had the already elongated forcing cones lengthened or the barrels backbored by the local butcher!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 07:23 PM ET
Website Address:

Like I said oleo---There are many reasons for gun mishaps---By the way---Who is the local butcher???George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 08:42 PM ET
Website Address:

George, if you have to ask you already know!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 08:49 PM ET
Website Address:

I'd like to end my feelings about this thread by saying that I spent time talking with the K.I. service mgr about K-80 blow-ups and through our conversation,I was convinced that the K-80 is a well made gun with very little problems to be concerned about---Now I know there are some out there that will say that that's to be expected to hear from a factoy rep.Keep in mind that the K-80s are one of the most used sporting guns in the world and there are some that may malfunction.Not unlike any other gun made or anything that is mechanical----I am very happy and satisfied with all my experience with K.I. Please read and reread what I said about what I heard about the blow-up. The shooter has stated to some that he wishes this thread to end---Wonder why?

George@SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 09:00 PM ET
Website Address:

So George, you totally trust KI, their awesome service and wouldn't take your K-80 anywhere else. See, we do agree!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 09:06 PM ET
Website Address:

Yes Oleo---We do agree---They are awesome---I have to admit that I have one with Allem roller release---My others are all K.I. parts---hope that don't make me a bad person in your eyes---With respect---George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: kgunron
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 09:08 PM ET
Website Address:

Geoge, my "old " k80 has over 100,000 Nitros and Super hndcps threw it.Light target loads are tripple that! The gun still feels new.I have only seen one K gun blow in my life. It was at Carney gun club and the guy had a wad stuck half way down the bbl when he touched off the next one! Ron Sutton

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 09:15 PM ET
Website Address:

Thanks Ron for the testimony---See you at the state shoot and I'll watch you throw a few more rounds through it---gL---George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Johnny
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 09:19 PM ET
Website Address:

"A wad stuck half way down the barrel" wouldn't do this kind of damage.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: kgunron
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 09:33 PM ET
Website Address:

Yeah, well I saw it and felt it.The top bbl of the O/U went almost to the trap house.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: BAD 303
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 09:48 PM ET
Website Address:

Just a shame there isn't a more expensive gun to buy. I am sure it would have less problems. Makes me even happier to shoot the old jammo-matics. Ever hear of one of those junkers blowing up? Only gun i have ever witnessed in person blowing up at the receiver was a K-80 shooting new 1 oz. White Gold papers. Krieghoff did replace the entire gun for the guy though. That is a positive i guess.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Dr.Longshot
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 10:01 PM ET
Website Address:

KGUNRON: Did that top Barrell come oput of the Monobloc? I personally saw one at the Grand American in Vandalia at the Kreighoff bldg, a guy showed me his K-80 and the Bbl was coming out of the mono bloc on one Bbl on his O/U showed it to Kreighoff, told them to give it back to him he was going to shoot the other Bbl on the singles, they said NO gave him a loaner gun and told him this gun is going back to Kreighoff International and get fixed and we will ship it to you when it has been repaired.

This is not the first occurance of the Bbls coming out of the Monobloc.

Every blow up I have seen was the lower Bbl or un-single and it blew out the right side in the area of the ejectors, split at this machined ejector slide.

This to me seems to be the weak link area.

When employed at Timken Roller Bearing in the Railroad Division where we ground the Bearings for the Locomotives Bearings were the Double G, the German Steel called KRUP STEEL would crack when we were grinding them on Centerless Grinders, Timken quit using all Germam Imported Steel because of defects.

They switched to American Made Steel.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: flyguysdad
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 10:19 PM ET
Website Address:

My K gun blew up because there was a crack in the barrel before the gun was blued. Look at the picture which clearly shows blue part way through the cross section of the barrel. Got a BS report from White labs. When I asked the person who signed the report if he looked at the crack he told me he hadn't. When I asked if he would review the gun he told me KI was White's client and they would have to request it. The impression I got was that they would write whatever the "client" would be happy with.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 10:25 PM ET
Website Address:

That's outrageous!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: grntitan
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 10:29 PM ET
Website Address:

Ought Oh

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: SuperXJeff
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 11:03 PM ET
Website Address:

One thing that seems to be true is that K Guns always allows the gun owner a new gun at reduced price. They also stop talking about the issue. How does anybody really know that even that is the truth?

Maybe it's a typical gag order type deal.

They instead give the guy a new gun and ask for his silence.

Why would they do ANYTHING if they were in the right?

Good will? I think not when you are dealing with gross negligence on the part of the owner in regards to hand loaded ammo or blockages ETC ETC.

Same side of the coin... They can't very well do nothing if they know exactly what the problem is and what causes it.

It really is a mystery but I have to say this

: southjblue Did you really think that the K-gun people are going to say anything other then what they told you?

What did you expect? Yea... A few are blowing up each year but we are keeping our eye on the situation?

That is pretty naïve for a grown man to expect any response other then what they told you. You could have PM'd me and saved yourself the phone bill!! Jeff

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: HDLLLIII
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 11:10 PM ET
Website Address:

When I was a kid my Daisy Red Ryder blew up on me. I only shot factory ammo and never shot reloads in it. There proof positive other guns blow up. I don't have pictures, but it happened...Larry Lockhart

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Hap MecTweaks
Date: Tue, May 07, 2013 - 11:48 PM ET
Website Address:

flyguysdad, thanks for posting your gun pix. It looks as though theres a small space that had hardly any metal? The difference in colors of light gray and blue in the split is very telling. Too bad you couldn't have had 3M in Minn. test the barrel. I'm sure gun makers don't have all the test labs in their pocket.

Hap

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: john_carey12
Date: Wed, May 08, 2013 - 08:40 AM ET
Website Address:

one of my buddy's on my shooting team has a K-80 and the wood has cracked 4 times in the last 2 years!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Dr.Longshot
Date: Wed, May 08, 2013 - 08:58 AM ET
Website Address:

I have this to say when a Mfgr replaces a Bbl ,revr, or any other part they have you sign a letter that says we are replacing this item on a confidentialality agrteement you are not to discuss this or disclose any agreement on the product in question, I know first hand as I had a Bbl replaced paid in full including fitting.

White's lab will not disclose any information on any product on the Mfgr that they deal with whether there was defect or not.

How do us individuals get a real honest complete report on a firearm problem?

I think the only way is to contact the Consumer Protection Agency just like the Automobiles to get a recall started and they must make a redesign to correct the problem.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Wed, May 08, 2013 - 11:12 AM ET
Website Address:

On a K-80 there are 4 blocks that the mono-block rests on. look at the wear on the breach in the first picture--it indicates uneven wear. Also the picture of the split barrel shows wear in the rear of the mono block--the uneven wear says lousy barrel fitting and uneven head space.

To all the detonation fans--think about this- a double charge combined with a cocked wad, equals a shape charge---the shape charge could blow the side out of a thin walled gun or an extremely brittle gun.

The above info was given to me by a very qualified person. I'm the messenger.

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Wed, May 08, 2013 - 11:18 AM ET
Website Address:

Qualified to do what? Shine your shoes? HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Johnny
Date: Wed, May 08, 2013 - 12:47 PM ET
Website Address:

That's just elementary Phil. I can tell,just by looking at the pictures, that bigelow had hot Jimmy Dean sausage , wheat toast and two eggs, sunny side up, for breakfast?

Tell us more about the "shape charge", sounds absurd.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: likes-to-shoot
Date: Wed, May 08, 2013 - 01:58 PM ET
Website Address:

Phil...Maybe you should put the shovel back in the tool shed!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Wed, May 08, 2013 - 06:53 PM ET
Website Address:

Look @ the photos-how come there is a polished side and a burned side- something blew by the breech face

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Wed, May 08, 2013 - 06:59 PM ET
Website Address:

Barrels blow. Receivers are simply collateral damage. Take that one to the bank!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Wed, May 08, 2013 - 09:17 PM ET
Website Address:

Chamber is part of the barrel!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 06:27 AM ET
Website Address:

That's a picture of smilely face porting, guaranteed to reduce recoil. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: HSLDS
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 07:55 AM ET
Website Address:

I'v been watching this thread and think I need to comment, especially in light of flyguysdad's post. I happen to live near enough to Krieghoff that I occasionally shoot with some of their employees.

I recently heard, and I report this anecdotally, a K-person say "all guns that have blown up were shot with reloads - if they claimed factory shells were shot, they were lying."

Add this to flyguysdad's observation/comments and it seems that the policy is to deny responsibility rather than to find the truth.

Just saying...

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 07:58 AM ET
Website Address:

APRICE, so when you remove the barrel from the receiver the monoblock stays behind? Kinda reminds me of a friend who thought he could shoot the torn off head of a Blue Magic through his K-80. The barrel didn't blow but the monoblock bulged. Since the monoblock was part of the barrel we deposited it into the club's trash can-not the receiver-which held. So you see, the monoblock IS part of the barrel. Call it an assembly if you like!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 08:27 AM ET
Website Address:

Again---look at the breach face---the area around the lower firing pin is significantly cleaner than the upper. Look at the remaining hinge area--the forward section is significantly cleaner that the rear section.

Also, there was a Dr. in Fl years ago who sued Krieghoff for damages when his gun blew up. They settled out of court with zero responsabilty. Typical business attitude-deny, deny and when you can out money the opposition.

The problem may not be with the gun. It could be with the owner or the individual who was supposed to do the maintenance.

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 08:46 AM ET
Website Address:

Heck, if excessive headspace and barrel wiggle caused blowups I'd be dead decades ago. Those old H&R single barrels were all we could afford growing up in the 60's. They'd often open up when we shot high brass loads at quarry pigeons making ejection even easier. And I wonder why I flinch!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 08:48 AM ET
Website Address:

Bruce Bowen tried to blow up a H&R, couldn't do it

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 08:54 AM ET
Website Address:

Yeah, but Bruce Bowen didn't try my H&R with my headspace and barrel wiggle making that comparison valueless!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: scooterbum
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 09:08 AM ET
Website Address:

"The chambers on mine are part of the monoblock, into which the barrel stubs are inserted."

I have to check you on this one.

From the inside working out, I believe it is; chamber, barrel stub, solder joint, monoblock.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 09:42 AM ET
Website Address:

What order must I assemble them when putting together my K-80??

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: scooterbum
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 09:52 AM ET
Website Address:

How about YOU explain it, dillweed?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: ivanhoe
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 10:02 AM ET
Website Address:

"Barrel looks okay in the photo. Chamber seems to have let go though."

Well if the barrel is OK can it be reused????? NO because the "STUBS" as you call them has been destroyed on that barrel.

I do not know what you are calling the Mono-block, the the shell passes through the opening in the Mono-block and lies in the STUB which is part of the barrel.

So please explain just what is the chamber according to you????? Inquiring minds want to know.

Bob Lawless

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: scooterbum
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 10:02 AM ET
Website Address:

aprice,

Are you having menstrual pains today.

You're just here today to cause trouble, aren't you?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: scooterbum
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 10:05 AM ET
Website Address:

The chamber is not a "thing". It is nothing but a "space", containing air, until a cartridge is inserted within it's borders.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: bigbore613
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 10:29 AM ET
Website Address:

Dillweed? LOL. Jeff

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: gailmk67
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 11:23 AM ET
Website Address:

Why do the K80 "blow ups" only happen or we only here of it happening on the trap fields? Only once have I heard of a K gun failure in SC, Skeet or any other shooting discipline and that was user error with reloads. KI did replace that gun @ N/C. SC factory loads, for one, are a bit "hotter" to achieve the velocities used in that sport but there seems to be no reports of K gun failures. Wouldn't more failures occur with the "hotter" ammo if there was truly a manufacturing problem? That would seem to me to debunk the weak or over hardened metal theory as a standard problem. If you all are truly curious, do as Southjblue has suggested and call KI and ask your questions. Seems to me that Southjblue has been the only person to ask questions to the source to reach any level of satisfaction. I don't believe that there are any hidden conspiracies to put out an inferior product in the Krieghoff world. If the right questions are ask you will get the right answers. I have talked with Don @ KI on this issue and also am completely satisfied with his response to my inquiry and believe that the K80 remains one of the strongest most reliable sporting shotguns made. It appears that the rest of you are just looking for a reason to grab your torches and pitchforks and stomp off to Ottsville, Pa.

One more thing to consider: Has the question been ask whether the "blow ups" are occurring with the same brand of factory ammo?

Regards, Joe

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Johnny
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 11:24 AM ET
Website Address:

flyguysdad , Was the report from White Lab initiated and paid for by KI or yourself?

HSLDS, I think the "reloads" excuse is a little too convenient. Wasn't Bruce Bowen unable to achieve proof load pressure and he was trying?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: HSLDS
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 11:57 AM ET
Website Address:

Johnny,

You are oh so right.

Not sure if you read Double Gun Journal, but several years ago they tried the same with a Damascus barreled Parker. Basically imposible to do without going way beyond 'normal' in loading.

Kind of highlights my point in the first place.

Food for thought.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: bigbore613
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 12:00 PM ET
Website Address:

Easiily a 100 to 1 trap rounds shot to all the other clay sports. More rounds more chances. Jeff

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 12:07 PM ET
Website Address:

quailmk67---So well stated---I appreciate your testimony---Thanks---

George@SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: flyguysdad
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 12:51 PM ET
Website Address:

First, the White lab report was initiated and paid for by KI. Second I want to make it perfectly clear that I was treated fairly by KI and Don in particular. Having said that. I believe that the investigation by White lab was very poorly done at best. I don't even pretend to know why other K guns fail. I do know why MY gun failed. It should also be noted that the shell that was in the gun when the barrel failed was perfectly in intact and could have been reloaded and none of the shells had base wads. While the noise was excessive the recoil was not. Especially not what one would expect if the pressure was four times normal. (The proof test load as indicated in the lab report)

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 01:26 PM ET
Website Address:

APrice, I've known Braxton over 35 years and worked with him at the original factory Krieghoff warranty center in NJ. And you!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Johnny
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 01:29 PM ET
Website Address:

flyguysdad, Of course they treated you fairly, their product failed. I imagine they will treat bigelow fairly also. With what little info I have it is hard to see how a reload can "blow up" a shotgun that has sound structural integrity. I am beginning to think all guns should require x-ray certification. Every time I pull the trigger there is a potential bomb going off six inches from my face.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: gailmk67
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 01:47 PM ET
Website Address:

Quote: "Easiily a 100 to 1 trap rounds shot to all the other clay sports. More rounds more chances." Jeff

I think you are mistaken.

Regards, Joe

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 02:05 PM ET
Website Address:

Bottom line is that Krieghoff is still using a very old design of Remington. They have made improvements through the years but have not drastically changed the wall thickness of their receiver or chambers. Changing the design would be a lot more expensive then replacing the few that do blow. Just my thought.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: bigbore613
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 02:08 PM ET
Website Address:

First take out all the small gauge rounds as no one has shown one blowing up. Jeff

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 02:11 PM ET
Website Address:

Exactly Jeff the small the gauge, the thicker the chamber.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: gailmk67
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 03:02 PM ET
Website Address:

Just a quick question and I am not trying to get into an argument; but, do you guys that are on the "Krieghoff K80 bashing bandwagon" own one or have any personal negative experience with one that has caused your dissatisfaction? Or, are you operating solely on 2nd and 3rd hand information and speculation? I like most people, hate to see facts cloud up a good story.

I do believe, and I have my reasons, that you should look to the factory shells for the potential problem. The shells have not been brought up to this point as a potential factor. If I was trying to determine the cause of a catastrophic failure, I would evaluate all potentials. Have any of the shells remaining from the used boxes or lots been sent back to the manufacturers for ballistic testing. I know they would welcome the opportunity to clear themselves of any liability. I am positive that they would be honest in their evaluations.

Regards, Joe

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 03:10 PM ET
Website Address:

Hi Joe I have owed Krieghoffs and am not bashing them but feel that the wall thickness is lighter then other guns. As far as the shells go, this would mean that we would have equal problem with all makes but that is not the case. Not trying to start a fight just stating my option.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: gailmk67
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 03:49 PM ET
Website Address:

I appreciate your comment and position 1perazzi. I keep seeing the same color shell in the guns that are blowing and am curious if this has been eliminated as a factor.

Regards, Joe

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: grntitan
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 04:09 PM ET
Website Address:

Krieghoff

Just Say'n...........

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Avaldes
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 05:29 PM ET
Website Address:

Of the last few gun blow ups reported on TS.com, shells have been both AA's and now STS. And this is at least the second one with pictures taken at the scene. I am not sure how that is construed as second hand information?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 05:39 PM ET
Website Address:

I own a 3200-it has 4 bearing blocks-if the head space increases--the barrel will twist and the side of the gun will blow out--this was explained to me . The same will hold for all guns of the same design. The only problem is ---a lot of K gun owners are high mileage shooters & despite the fact they spend a lot for their guns--they may tend to think, that the annual service is BS--just like Mercedes Benz owners-& by the way I own a Benz

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Thu, May 09, 2013 - 09:05 PM ET
Website Address:

There are no APRICES with any serious record of ATA Trapshooting. Therefore, he must have called Braxton at Krieghoff to see if he had any parts for his Lanber O/U in stock. Braxton may have informed him they were temporarily out of Lanber monoblocks but might be capable of fitting a new Unsingle barrel to his monoblock in the future.

Phil, of course, has described another non-existant Krieghoff problem. I returned from getting an annual service on my K-80 last week and was informed by Don that I currently have .008 headspace. My knowledge of K-guns as usual is up to date and I answered-so what. Don's reply was "I agree and if it starts misfiring we'll fix it"!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: ivanhoe
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 08:37 AM ET
Website Address:

"Certainly you know than in Krieghoff o/u shotguns the chamber is drilled into the monobloc then the barrel stubs are soldered in."

APrice you made this statement to me where I won't say where. I have questions about it. The mono bloc is drilled (which I highly doubt) and the barrel "STUBS" are soldered into it. So if after all of that is done and you insert a shell/hull into the mono bloc where does the shell actually end up??????

As far as I can tell the shell actually lies in the barrel "STUBS" or stub if you are only shooting a single target event with the mono bloc around soldered around it. So where is the Chamber??????

Bob Lawless

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 08:52 AM ET
Website Address:

APRICE, you might get lucky if you try A. Hensel first. Now please stay home, take two aspirins, drink plenty of fluids and stare at your Lanber monoblock today!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: ivanhoe
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 09:23 AM ET
Website Address:

As is exactly what I thought I would get you didn't even bother to think about what I said. You just decided that I and others here are wrong. That you are correct.

"You've never before been at a loss for answers Bob. You tell us what you saw when you visited the factory."

APrice I have never visited "the" factory. One trip to the factory does not make you an expert.

I can tell you this the piece of metal that comes in contact with the round to be fired is the chamber. All firearms with the exception of revolvers (there chambers are in the cylinder) have the chamber located in the end of the barrel. Rifle barrels are chambered in 30.06, .308, 7MM MAG and so on. Semi Auto hand guns have a chamber in the breech end of the barrel. If you don't think so take the barrel out of a semi auto hand gun and see if you can place a new shell/hull/case in the barrel.

The first thing you need to do is make sure you know what you are talking about. It is becoming more obvious that isn't so in this case, you don't have a clue.

That is all I have to try and tell you now. Of course as I know that will not be how it is in your little mind.

Oh BTW I have never been to the factory. I did it the hard way I had a mono bloc separation on a Beretta. The barrel came out of the mono bloc in my hand when I pull on it because it looked liked it had moved. So I got to examine it up close and personal.

You have a nice day.

Bob Lawless

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Maurice
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 04:34 PM ET
Website Address:

I have shot Krieghoff's for over 25 years and have never had or seen a problem like the one being discussed here. Most of you so called experts seem to miss the fact that every Krieghoff firearm has to be proof tested by the German Government proof house and the proof load used is 25% heavier than the heaviest available commercial load. In Europe and the UK if you make any alterations to a firearm such as back boring, lengthening forcing cones, porting or any modification other than furniture the firearm has to be reproofed and unfortunately that is not the case here in North America. Any gunsmith ( even if he is not competent ) can make major modifications and compromise the safety of said firearm. Maurice ( The Brit. )

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 04:48 PM ET
Website Address:

I will say this over and over until someone will fess up to my statement----please read and re read that a friend of mine was at the blow-up---He was in the club house and heard a LOUD noise and ran outside to see if anyone was hurt and went on the line where the shooter made the shot and talked to some that we're on the line and was told that he heard the loud noise and asked what happened and was told that the shooter nxt to the guy with the blow up and SAW a blast of fire come out of the muzzle and saw the EXPLOSION----I still have the PM----K.I. will be very happy to examine----How can all you so called experts still keep this thread going----Could it be a K.I type of envey--- How many of you ever shot a K-gun----I have posted this post many times and will till you get the picture--I have also been told that the shooter would like this thread to end so keep it going and I will still keep my story going-------George@SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 05:04 PM ET
Website Address:

APRICE knows more about K-80's after one trip to the factory-outstanding-and surely negates my working at the Krieghoff warranty service for over two years.

My son visited the Krieghoff factory in Germany and received a guided tour compliments of Krieghoff International a few years ago. He came home visibly impressed by the individual in charge of barrel straightening yet does not consider himself an expert on Krieghoffs. Engineering school just didn't teach that!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 06:51 PM ET
Website Address:

Begelow---Please end this nonsense and fess up to the explosion so we can get on with trapshooting---Only you know what is the real reason----George@SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: grntitan
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 06:55 PM ET
Website Address:

So George, you know for a fact it's his fault? Could you prove that?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 07:04 PM ET
Website Address:

I think I can prove that it was not the guns fault---Don't press me----It will be between me and K.I.----Let's just say----Talk to the shooter and the guys on the line----Looks like you-all would like it to be the guns fault---Can anyone ever prove that the blow-ups in the past were K.I. liabilty???You just love to blast K-guns and most never shot one----Have fun---I love mine--

With respect to all---enjoy what ever you shoot and I will mine----George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: grntitan
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 07:09 PM ET
Website Address:

I was asking a question George as you seem so positive it was the users fault and could not possibly be the guns fault. Yet you offered no more proof that it was the users fault than I offered it was the guns fault. I haven't blamed anyone. I do think KI likes to hush things quick. I'd like to know the truth but I honestly doubt we will ever really know it.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 07:19 PM ET
Website Address:

Grntitan---You and I have been friends in the past and I think you know I'm a stand up guy---Please take it from me that the blow-up is VERY suspect---I have documention that what I have posted is factual and in my opinion,it's not the guns fault----I'm not going to mention what I know but please take it to the bank---Let this thread die---It's not the guns fault---George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: grntitan
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 07:32 PM ET
Website Address:

Well certainly I do not think us discussing an issue whether we agree or disagree should affect our friendship. I think at worst we will have to agree to disagree. I would love to see a professional report showing facts. I doubt we ever see that.

I do find Maurice(The Brit)'s post above interesting. Seems if the K-Guns are over engineered to handle the 25% greater charge that it should certainly handle anything someone could stuff in a shotshell and actually be able to chamber. I tried to make a double charge(38 grains) STS with Green Dot(which I concede is a fluff powder) and it simply wouldn't chamber(my 682) after a Fig8 wad and 1 1/8oz of shot were also added. In fact it made a bulged mess that jammed in my final crimp die(Hornady 366) not to mention the spilled shot after it was heaping full.

I understand Maurice additionally mentioned the possible barrel work that could change things. However, it seems that doesn't affect other makes in this way. Just Say'n...,,,

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Johnny
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 07:42 PM ET
Website Address:

Maurice , From what I can find your 25% number is right and the CIP proof house fires two shots. Not sure what the heaviest 12ga 2 3/4" commercial pressure would be but 25% more doesn't sound very high. SAAMI uses 19-20,000 psi proof loads for 12 ga 2 3/4" shells.

Ollie, you mention barrel straightening at Kreighoff. They probably do it by eye, Perazzi still does, I think. The human eye is very discerning. Some things are very hard to improve.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 07:43 PM ET
Website Address:

grntitan---If I say that there was a loud noise and a rush to the line and those on the line nxt to the shooter saw a flame come out the muzzle,that it may be the guns fault???---Do you ? my report and if I'm right,do you respect my report???What else could cause the effect that I'm reporting----Do you think I'm lying???I have PMs stating the above from people that were at the shooting/ How often do I have to relay this info----I'm not going to give names---You will have to trust me that what I say is facts--- I have in writing the proof of the events-----What more do I have to say?---I beleive it's K-Gun envy. George@SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: grntitan
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 07:56 PM ET
Website Address:

What report George? Where did this report come from and why did you get it? I have not seen a report. PM me or post a report from someone competent in the field to make such a report. It seems you are talking about hear-say which carries as much weight as my worthless opinions. You simply think I have an agenda to bad mouth Krieghoff. That's not true. I like others here just want answers from the folks who can provide them with some proof. That's it, nothing more and nothing less.

Do I think there was a loud noise and flames? Well duh. I haven't seen an explosion yet that didn't have a loud report and flames. Why would a gun coming unglued be any different?

Why are you so dead set on ending this thread when not one bit of evidence has been provided to prove fault of Krieghoff or the guns owner. In my eyes its an open case and worth discussing.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 08:04 PM ET
Website Address:

The report I gave is in writing and is facts---The noise was extra loud to the point it took the people in the club house attention and a rush to see if anyone was hurt---Not just a noise----The flame was seen unusual by the shooters nxt to the shooter---That makes it unusual----I'm not asking to end the thread but the shooter is----Wonder why???I'm just passing it along but I will over and over state what I know----Say what you wish but I think you start to sound foolish in my eyes----With respect----George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 08:09 PM ET
Website Address:

Sorry George but you are the one sounding foolish.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 08:18 PM ET
Website Address:

1perazzi---Please explain----I have posted the facts---Are they foolish??? I just post the facts and will pvove when necessary----If that's foolish then I stand foolish---Over and over----LOUD NOISE---so Loud that clubhouse members were rushed outside to see if anyone was hurt----Shooters on the line saw flames come out the muzzle in daytimne----If that's sounds like gun failure than I stand foolish----George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 08:31 PM ET
Website Address:

Then please enlighten us to what really happened? None of this wink wink nod nod crap. Was it a overcharged load and if so was it a double, triple? Trust me I have no kgun envy, just want to know the facts.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 11:13 PM ET
Website Address:

1perazzi----Here is the facts---You decide--am I foolish as you stated---- read this and you decide--- NOTE----A VERY loud noise was heard from the inside the club house that caused the members to RUSH out to see if anyone was hurt----When they went outside to see if anyone was hurt they went to the line where the shooting occured and talked to the guys on the line of the shooting and asked what happened and was told that there was a VERY LOUD noise and saw a streak of FIRE come out the muzzle in daylight and saw the blow-up---Now I ask----What don't you understand????Does that make me foolish????VERY LOUD NOISE FROM DISCHARGE -----STREAK OF FIRE FROM MUZZLE IN DAY LIGHT----Did you ever in all your days of shooting hear the above scenario and see a gun come apart????I will give this story over and over until I get to all the picture I'm presenting and wait for the response--I have full doucumation in writing by guys that were on the scene----Guys on the scene----What don't you get???Am I foolish????you present your case---I will state it over and over till you get it------ George@SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 11:24 PM ET
Website Address:

Look I'm not calling you a fool. Yes guns make loud bangs especially short barrel guns or guns that blow up. You said in your previous post that you can prove ,(if necessary) this was not the gun, so prove it. Otherwise it's just a lot more heresy.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 11:38 PM ET
Website Address:

Perazzi---I don't have to prove anything to you----You called me foolish and I asked to explain---I never got personal with you---I gave all the facts that occoured and I have it in writing----I said I would provide when necessary to K.I.---Not to you---All can read and reread my post and decide what ever they want----I know I'm right---You don't,so suck it up and think what ever you want.---What I posted is facts---Believe it on not--That's up to you----There are many on TSs that know me and I stand by my reputation that what I say is fact----I don't know you and hold you in high regard----You prove me wrong---I'm the one making the statements and on the limb for any allegations---So have a picnic to prove me wrong---I stand behind my facts---You don't have any. When you can prove me wrong,come at me---Till then,lets be friends---George@SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Fri, May 10, 2013 - 11:52 PM ET
Website Address:

Please understand that I'm not coming after you or trying to disrespect you or anybody on this site. It's sites like this that exemplify differences in opinion and the American way. The reason this thread has so much action is not Kgun haters like most Kgunners believe, but answers. As you know there have been more documented Kgun blow ups compared to other makes on this site and inquiring minds want to know why.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 12:18 AM ET
Website Address:

perazzi---In all my yrs on TSs there has been at most 4 or 5 K-gun blow-ups---K-guns out number most high-end sporting guns many #s to one which will give privy to more mishaps than most----Say what you will---K.I is one of the most sporting guns in the world and of the most with the highest reputation---Yes they have had some problems but I wait till one has been proven to hurt anyone on the line that I know of but the naysayers of envy(who have never shot one) can't wait to bash the royalty---It's a way of life---I call it envy---(like my ford will take you any where your mercedes will)---Bash as you will---After this thread has run it's way,the K-gun will be amoung the most sought after of all the sporting guns and we will go on----I just hold the K-gun very special and will till I give up the sport. NO ONE THAT I KNOW OF CAN PROVE THAT THE K-GUNS ARE DANGEROUS TO THE SPORT.I think K.I has been very generous in any allegations of damaged goods-----You can take it anyway you wish---I call it loyalty to my hoby----I have given some of the facts of this recent blow-up as I know it to be and will wait to see if I'm wrong---All the above is my opinion and with respect--I may be off in the #s but I think you get the picture----George@SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 01:21 AM ET
Website Address:

Come on, really! K guns out number other hi end guns? Give me a break. Perazzi sells more guns, Beretta sells 10 times more guns. Why do we only here about Kguns blowing up? I have owed Ks, Ps and Bs so please don't feed me that ,"I don't understand" crap. As far as reputation goes, 12 our of the 15 medals in the last Olympics went too Perazzi, that's what I would call royalty. I understand your loyalty and am not trying to change your mind but please get your facts straight. Plus I have Never called K guns dangerous.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Avatar
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 01:28 AM ET
Website Address:

Well, scratch the Krieghoff from my "gun envy" list. Seriously, though, sounds like it was a one-in-a-million flaw in the metal, or, that the barrel was bored too thin. Even if K guns tend to be (overpriced?) copies of old Remington designs, I'm sure the metal and workmanship are state of the art, Not that that's saying much these days. After all, even H&R guns costing <$150 reliably shoot the heaviest loads without blowing up.

"User error" seems less likely. Even a gross overcharge of powder should not blow up a good barrel. Since this did not happen during hunting, it is unlikely the barrel was plugged with mud. And, I doubt the "user" slipped in a 20ga shell before loading the 12ga shell.

A proper post-mortem should tell the story. But, sounds like the K people have a policy of hiding the results and swearing everyone to secrecy. Good for their business, I suppose, but doesn't help the rest of us.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 06:46 AM ET
Website Address:

George,

The loud noise heard all the way inside the club house and the extensive damage to the gun were caused by a super sonic shock wave. If you would like more info on the subject you can google, smokeless powder detonation. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: likes-to-shoot
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 07:21 AM ET
Website Address:

Everyone is posting that all they want is facts.....well lets just wait till they come out and then decide whether qualified engineers in this type of field know how to do their job.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 08:23 AM ET
Website Address:

Thanks HMB---I'm done writing on this subject---I have given the facts as they were presented---I am not an amateur technician like most on this thread---It will come down to the shooter and K.I. to make the call,not us on TSs---Sooner or later this thread will run out of breath---gL to all---George@SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Johnny
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 11:59 AM ET
Website Address:

hmb, please post a link to a specific website article involving shotshell detonation to bolster your claim of smokeless powder detonation. Just one would be sufficient. I can't find any. I can't find any because none exist. None exist because it has never happened. It has never happened because, apparently, it is impossible in such small quantities.

Do you actually think this is possible and the industry is involved in gross negligence?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Maurice
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 03:25 PM ET
Website Address:

Do any of you rocket scientists really believe that Krieghoff would continue to produce guns with either a faulty hardening process, faulty manufacturing process or inadequate quality control program and cover up any problems that occur? No responsible company would risk the possible ruinous results that would occur if someone was seriously injured or killed due to the companies irresponsible conduct, especially in a society that will pursue litigation for the most minor and ridiculous reason.IE :- spilling a cup of hot coffee in their lap and blaming the coffee shop for not warning them that it was hot. Come on guys get real. Maurice ( The Brit. )

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 03:33 PM ET
Website Address:

Johnny,

Try www. sciencemadness.org and go to double base smokeless powder detonation{DBSP detonation}. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 06:37 PM ET
Website Address:

Johnny,

I posted one for you. There are 184,999 more available. Let me know if you need another one to add to your collection of sites that don't exist. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Johnny
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 06:52 PM ET
Website Address:

hmb, You are going to have to do better than that. I have seen that one previously. It's just another talk forum. You are going to have to do better than that.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: GN7777777
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 08:44 PM ET
Website Address:

Krieghoffs shotguns are designed to withstand way beyond twice the pressure standard for 12 guage shells. I think I know what that number is but I am not going to state it.

It is interesting to note the other comments on this thread.

Then again you have the normal worthless comments from nobraintrain and scooterrash--- who just talk to talk because in real life no one has ever listened to them.

The "report" that George mentioned was the sound of an explosion going off.

Regards from Iowa

Gene

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: HSLDS
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 09:01 PM ET
Website Address:

If the shell was loaded with smokeless powder how can you have an explosion??

No smokeless powder is classified as an explosive, save Norma #1.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: grntitan
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 09:15 PM ET
Website Address:

As now reported from the Idiot from Iowa, a gun able to handle "way beyond twice the pressure standard for 12 gauge shells" supposedly blows up because of a bad shell? Bullpoop.

The Iowa Idiot said:
"The "report" that George mentioned was the sound of an explosion going off."

George wasn't even there. He is reporting hear-say. Everything being quote "reported" amounts to nothing. I don't doubt the damn gun was loud and flames shot out. The thing came unglued. It's gonna look and sound different than a normal round being discharged. There has been no facts presented to support either side of the argument. None. Bunch of nothing.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: dverna
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 09:48 PM ET
Website Address:

I have been away for a while but sense that some of you have become rather obnoxious to each other. Most of you need to get a life.

I know a guy who admits to three double charged 700x loads through an older K-80 and the gun survived. He is an avid shooter and probably shoots over 15,000 a year. He did have his unsingle barrel separate a bit from the monoblock and I loaned him a spare barrel until it was fixed. Shit happens - he did NOT blame the gun.

If you are so fearful you must not shoot many ATA targets or you do not shoot with many good shooters because you will find a lot of K-80's at an ATA event and many good shooters use them. I have never had someone re-squad from fear of shooting next to a K-80.

So, do you think you are safer behind a K-80 or standing the next post over when it goes BOOM!!!!? Just keep this in your little pea brain when you are shooting next to a K-80. I need all the help I can get.

Don Verna (K-80 shooter)

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: GN7777777
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 09:54 PM ET
Website Address:

Don- agree with all your points except one.

Pea brain is over estimate for nobraintrain and scooterloser

As far as what you stated about popularity- absolutely correct.

Regards from Iowa

Gene

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Avaldes
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 10:00 PM ET
Website Address:

The SAAMI proof load for 12 GA is between 19.5ksi and 21.5ksi. So it is correct that a barrel destined for the US is proofed to that pressure. There are a LOT of "however's" that come after that proof shot.

Also, the popularity of the K80 is highly regional. California is DOMINATED by Perazzi. But wander east and it is a different story.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: scooterbum
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 10:02 PM ET
Website Address:

It was right of aprice to delete all of his posts.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: scooterbum
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 10:10 PM ET
Website Address:

I shoot all my registered trap with a K80.

Mr. Nosco, what do you do?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 10:15 PM ET
Website Address:

More bla bla bla no answers! Just saying

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: buster45
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 10:48 PM ET
Website Address:

Many years ago I Saw a 20ga Midas Browning blow up shooting AA Winchester skeet loads, yes factory. This gun had never seen a reload. Blew out the right side of receiver. Luckily no one was injured. To this day no one has a clue as to what caused it. Both Winchester and Browning spent all their time pointing fingers at each other and did nothing. This was the years before all of the litigation.

So it does happen to all.

Buster

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Sat, May 11, 2013 - 11:29 PM ET
Website Address:

Buster you are right sh,t happens. For some reason it happens more with Krieghoffs. Some say it is negligence on the part of the user, if this is the case then we can assume that Kgun owners are more negligent then owners of other brands. You can't have it both ways.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: GN7777777
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 08:26 AM ET
Website Address:

1Perazzi- "it happens more with Krieghoffs"

Really?

Where is your proof of that?

btw - how many posts did Aprice have on this issue? I missed all of them

Now grnobrainstrain- you missed the point AGAIN. The word report means sound. It doesnt mean George read a report that was written by someone . DUH DUH-- how many times does that need to be explained to you and no he never claimed he read anything official.

Now Scootterbummer0 s- so what is your point? You are an expert on Krieghoffs because you shoot one. It is clear from your derogatory comments about people on here and about Krieghoffs that you are far from an expert on this or anything.

Regards from Iowa

Gene

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 11:34 AM ET
Website Address:

Gene. With all due respect this thread has two cases of Krieghoff failures alone. Keep drinking the Kool Aid!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: scooterbum
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 11:57 AM ET
Website Address:

Gene Nosco, non-competition (shooter?).

This message is for you;

I remember awhile back that you were trying to tout yourself as an ata member.

Mr. Nosco, what do you do? Do you shoot, or just sit here raising HELL all day, every day, on TS.com?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 12:00 PM ET
Website Address:

Since the K-80,K-32, & Remington 3200 all share the same basic pedigree are any instances of similar failures in K-32 & Remington 3200?

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: GN7777777
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 12:10 PM ET
Website Address:

The Remington 3200 is a totally different design-

scooterboozer- you been drinking again? Never happened

You on the other hand have been trolling the last 3 weeks- my guess is you are using a different ID now

regards from Iowa

Gene

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: scooterbum
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 12:14 PM ET
Website Address:

Answer my question, ambulance chaser.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: GN7777777
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 12:16 PM ET
Website Address:

scooterboozer- you dont even make a good troll

Have you ever done anything well in life?

Regards from Iowa

Gene

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: scooterbum
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 12:37 PM ET
Website Address:

Mr. Nosco, what do you do? Do you shoot, or just sit here raising HELL all day, every day, on TS.com?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 02:10 PM ET
Website Address:

"the 3200 and the Krieghoff share the same pedigree". Like saying a Porsche and Yugo are similar because they both have motors!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Maurice
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 03:56 PM ET
Website Address:

oleolliedawg, you are right on the money, the only similarity between the 3200 and the K80 is the top latch cover locking system. Maurice ( The Brit. )

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: In Clay We Crush
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 04:43 PM ET
Website Address:

I once saw a guy pull the trigger on a K 80 and he blew up..!!!

But no one wants too talk about that..!

poor Krieghoff .....

K-80 lifer here signing out...lol

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 05:42 PM ET
Website Address:

Maurice,

What about the O/U separated barrels and the front barrel hanger contolling the POI of the lower barrel. Seems pretty similar to me. Looks a lot like a poor mans K-80 to me. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: GN7777777
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 07:23 PM ET
Website Address:

Well HMB- then so was a savage combo gun

Regards from Iowa

Gene

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 07:27 PM ET
Website Address:

And a Valmet (Vomit)!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 08:08 PM ET
Website Address:

How long have you been having these delusions. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: GN7777777
Date: Sun, May 12, 2013 - 08:31 PM ET
Website Address:

HMB- trust me- a 3200 doesnt isnt even closely related to a K80

You are the one delusional

regards from Iowa

Gene

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Mon, May 13, 2013 - 11:19 AM ET
Website Address:

Gene,

They are both O/U shotguns. How much closer can you get? HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: jimctrap
Date: Wed, May 15, 2013 - 09:45 PM ET
Website Address:

Red dot would be a faster powder than green dot or blue dot

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Wed, May 15, 2013 - 10:15 PM ET
Website Address:

And still no answers!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: grntitan
Date: Wed, May 15, 2013 - 10:20 PM ET
Website Address:

1perazzi,

You forgot, we got the answer above. Remember? The "report".

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Hap MecTweaks
Date: Wed, May 15, 2013 - 10:31 PM ET
Website Address:

Waiting for an answer? Your grandkids won't be around to get an answer either.

Hap

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Wed, May 15, 2013 - 11:37 PM ET
Website Address:

Hopefully by the time my grandkids get old enough they will have changed their antiquated design.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Dr.Longshot
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 09:25 AM ET
Website Address:

This is fact WHIT LABS will not publicize what has happened causing K-80 blowups as KI Is a customer of theirs and do not want to lose the business that KI gives them, the sad part is a Private Party K-80 owner that sends a K-80 to them that has blown up won't get the results.

Now has anyone sent a K-80 to White Labs?

I personally called Whit Labs and they told me they would not release any info on K-80 blowups as Kreighoff was a customer of theirs.

So now where would an ATA Shooter send a blown up K-80 or any other gun to and get an unbiased report as to the cause of the malfunction?

Is there such a company in existence?

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: gailmk67
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 10:44 AM ET
Website Address:

1perazzi I would also like to be enlightened on any design problems that you have discovered during your extensive investigations and testing.

Gary, Why would the lab be obligated to send you a copy of the "report" or for that matter discuss it with you? You really don't have a "horse in the race". That information would be distributed between the lab, Krieghoff International and the owner of the gun. Depending on the results KI and the owner will most like come to resolution.

The lab would surely not want to be held liable for telling you something; and for you to broadcast information across every forum imaginable that may simply be your interpretation of findings and nothing based on true facts. This keeps you from saying "White Labs told me that....." and adding crap that is simply not true.

the following is your statement;

"I personally called Whit Labs and they told me they would not release any info on K-80 blowups as Kreighoff was a customer of theirs. ."

OR

Did they say Krieghoff was their customer not you and that is who they would discuss the matter with?

Let the owner of the gun and Krieghoff try and work this out. I am sure you will all be made aware in time of the outcome. If in fact you are worried, breath easy your in no immediate danger you don't shoot a Krieghoff.

Regards, Joe

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 10:44 AM ET
Website Address:

Scooterbum look at the design of the K80. Long receiver, relatively thin receiver walls and chamber walls compared to other makes. Why are they blowing up? You tell me. I'm not claiming to be an expert or a metallurgist but Can see that Krieghoff has a problem and wants to hush it up. As I have mentioned in the past I have owed Kguns in the past and don't have a hard on for the company or envy. Would I buy another? Maybe but probably not especially after seeing what's happening. I'm sure that you would like it if I just STFU but I would like to know the reason instead of living in denial or trusting a company that is trying to sell me something.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: scooterbum
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 11:44 AM ET
Website Address:

1p

If you don't have anything to contribute, then why the snide remarks concerning Krieghoff?

All of the blowups that I have been particularly privy to, none of them have been Krieghoffs. Where are the other blowups that people see, but don't post here?

The blowups I have knowledge about, in recent times, have been autoloaders, and/or the result of usage or reloading mistakes.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 11:49 AM ET
Website Address:

Im sorry you feel that my comments are snide that is not my intention

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: likes-to-shoot
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 01:43 PM ET
Website Address:

Why would White Labs or any company for that matter give out information pertaining to a matter to someone who isn't its customer?

Why would White Labs or any other company publish information on matters that it was hired to investigate for a cause of a failure? That would be up to the customer to decide if it wanted that information public.

Why would anyone think they are in the position to call and ask for this type of information and expect it to be given to them? LOL

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 02:22 PM ET
Website Address:

1perazzi should have seen the Perazzi TMX, Remington 3200 and TM1 I saw blow up!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: gailmk67
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 04:04 PM ET
Website Address:

Likes to Shoot: Amen to that, my thoughts exactly. I guess some people think that they are special or entitled. I am sure the assumption was to have the information provided free of charge.

Why even send it to a lab? Post a couple more pictures. A few of the responders to this particular post can determine with solid speculation what could possibly, or maybe more likely than not, or (wait a minute)what might be the cause of failure. That would satisfy this once and for all, maybe.

The owner of said K80 is one of the few waiting for "expert" opinion. I am confident he will be satisfied in the end.

Regards, Joe

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: likes-to-shoot
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 04:31 PM ET
Website Address:

Joe,

I was there when this happened.

The owner is a stand up guy that takes pride in his appearance and his possessions. He has dealt with Krieghoff enough to have confidence in their business ethics.

Bill

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 04:35 PM ET
Website Address:

Oleo---Again we agree---Wish you posted that way above---Iperazzi must have a chicken bone in his throat---"COUGH"---I had to come back for that---SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 04:52 PM ET
Website Address:

For what?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: gailmk67
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 05:32 PM ET
Website Address:

Bill, I believe, and its just my opinion, that he is doing the right thing. Given the opportunity, Krieghoff will do what is right. I commend him for not complaining in open forum and working with KI toward resolution. Shows real character. I hope that my posting(s) have not been misunderstood as "bad mouthing" the owner of the gun and his misfortune. I do believe it happened as he stated in a previous post. I also believe that it is not fair to any of the involved parties for anyone to speculate to the cause without facts.

Joe

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 05:33 PM ET
Website Address:

Nice response----Was that a "cough"? or a hic cup???---SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: ivanhoe
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 05:35 PM ET
Website Address:

"If you don't have anything to contribute, then why the snide remarks concerning Krieghoff?

All of the blowups that I have been particularly privy to, none of them have been Krieghoffs. Where are the other blowups that people see, but don't post here?

The blowups I have knowledge about, in recent times, have been autoloaders, and/or the result of usage or reloading mistakes."

Bum I wonder just who should doesn't have any thing to contribute. By your own admition you have know knowledge of K-gun blowup.

Yet I have photos of three different K-gun blowup that came right off this website!!!!!!!!

Bob Lawless

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 05:38 PM ET
Website Address:

Nice going Bob---We now have 3 but not with any proof of the cause-Like a LOUD NOISE and a rush to the line to see if anyone was hurt and the line says they saw a bright flame come from the gun--Suspicious wouldn't you say??And no word from the shooter and the thread deleted from orig threader---Just me-- George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: smokintom
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 05:50 PM ET
Website Address:

That smells of reloads and detonation!!!!!!!!!! LOOK at it. I`ve seen it before.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 06:04 PM ET
Website Address:

Tom,

You got that right!!!!!! HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: ivanhoe
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 06:54 PM ET
Website Address:

"Nice going Bob---We now have 3 but not with any proof of the cause-Like a LOUD NOISE and a rush to the line to see if anyone was hurt and the line says they saw a bright flame come from the gun--Suspicious wouldn't you say??"

George with all do respect to you and your position in this matter. The three things you listed in the quote above. Are no actual proof of anything but what you stated. Which is a LOUD NOISE, A RUSH TO THE LINE, and A BRIGHT FLAME. Those things don't prove any thing. I do believe that your last sentence sums it up pretty clearly "Just You"

Just how many of these shooter that have had a K-gun blowup. Come on here and tell us all, what the findings were by K-gun????? George whether you know it or not everyone that goes on the line with a faulty K-gun next to them. Is a not loyal K-gun supporter. They have a right to know what caused the problem. It is their safety that is at stake.

If K-gun is putting gag orders on the people that have had a K-gun blowup. What do they have to hide and why???? We are talking about "SAFETY" here think about it George!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob Lawless

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 07:22 PM ET
Website Address:

Well said!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 07:24 PM ET
Website Address:

Bob---I can't debate with you---You're too smart for me but I can tell you that my report is from a friend that was there when the blow-up occured---It is HIS report to me as I stated many times above--and by the way,he's not a K-gun shooter-That makes it fact unless you think I may have lied and you know me better---I can tell you now that the gun has been sent to K.I. and the matter is between the shooter and K.I.If the shooter is satisfied with the outcome, it becomes between them---You mention 3 blow-ups with no answer to the problem and that makes it unresolved---Not a fair conclusion in my eyes----You must give the final cause before an accuation.You only present 3 situations of no final cause---It's not K.I. to post any result when a settlement is excepted between the parties involved.

To me it sounds like there could be 3rd party responsibilty---amateur tech's. can't solve the real problem---George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 07:54 PM ET
Website Address:

Bob--I also have to comeback and say that anyone with a spooky feeling about K-gun blow-ups have the right to resquad---At my 2 clubs there would be many sgl shooters---The K-gun out #s many others----

A few yrs ago there was a very LOUD noise at the block house to my left---After the inquiry it became that the shooter had a Rem 870 blow-up---bbl sep from the receiver and receiver very damaged---End story was from an ambitious reload---This I can prove---Brother still shoots with us so it's not hearsay and a non proven acusation-----George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: ivanhoe
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 08:19 PM ET
Website Address:

"It is HIS report to me as I stated many times above---That makes it fact unless you think I may have lied and you know me beter---I can tell you now that the gun has been sent to K.i. and the matter is between the shooter and K.I.If the shooter is satisfied with the outcome, it becomes between them---You mention 3 blow-ups with no answer to the problem and that makes it unresolved---Not a fair conclusion in my eyes----"

George I am not going to argue you. You gave a report so tell us all what does the report prove? Does it prove cause?? Does it prove the problem??? No George it prove there was a blow up that is all. The pictures do prove that. So what is your point?????

George try to understand this your report is a report of what was observed after the blowup occured. It doesn't prove what the problem was.

BTW if there is no report of a professional nature that also makes it unresolved so just what do you see that is different??????

All I did was show the bum how obtuse he was being. Nothing more and nothing less. You said the matter is between the shooter and K-gun. You are not correct George. No one is telling those that go on the line shooting a K-gun or those standing beside someone shooting one. Just what caused the problem. What are they hiding?????

As I said in my last post everyone on the line is risking injury without knowing what the cause of the problem is. An agreement between the shooter and k-gun that becomes a secret Is no answer for those that are also taking their chances.

Try to understand it isn't about the K-gun company it is about the health and safety of all the shooters that are on the line. You need to back off and let K-gun defend themselves. See what you get for answers then.

Bob Lawless

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 08:39 PM ET
Website Address:

Bob---Like I said--You're tough to debate---K.I. stands on their own and anyone has the right to stand off the line for a spooky feeling about a blow-up.K.I. will still be one of the most sought after sporting guns well after this thread dies.It is up to all the naysayers to prove them wrong or just let them(K.I)dry up and go out of business---Do you think that will happen???I'm told they are solid into 2014----I never said I know the problem of the blowup. I reported the facts as a friend presented the situation---You decide---I think there is more to the situation than just a K-80 defect---That's just me. George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: smokintom
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 09:06 PM ET
Website Address:

When you load a shotgun shell and you don`t have the wad pressed down on the powder(wad pressure) you leave an air space in there.BIG NO NO.Then when you pull the trigger the powder doesn`t burn,it EXPLODES.Thats called detonation.And detonation can be very violent.This is why loading manuals talk about wad pressure when loading shotgun shells.Iv`e seen it happen.The last time about 8 years ago.Turned a 12 gauge O/U into 17 separate pieces.Very lucky no one was injured.That K gun detonated for sure. Tom

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 09:20 PM ET
Website Address:

Tom---I have to agree---Why the very LOUD noise???----I herd the same LOUD noise when the 870 blew----You can say that's hearsay---No regular charge will blow a K-gun in my opinion---Shooter said it was a new shell(REM)---To all---Do you think REM will fess up---YA--RIGHT---We are involved in what could be a dangerous sport at times---We are nxt to danger at all times---I've been around trapshooting for 45 yrs and never saw anyone hurt from a blow-up but did see a guy lose his front teeth from a b-rock out the front of the trap house----Just saying----George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: smokintom
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 09:36 PM ET
Website Address:

The very loud noise was in fact an explosion.When were shooting trap you here a boom when you shoot at a bird.Not a KAAAAAABOOM.Thats an explosion!Thats detonation.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: smokintom
Date: Thu, May 16, 2013 - 09:53 PM ET
Website Address:

Of course there going to say it was a factory load.There not going to say,hey I loaded that shell,will you replace my gun for me because of my screw up. My $400 870 or my $10,000 K-80.No,put the blame somewhere else but there own mistake.I had a guy asked me to help him get a shotgun replaced years ago for that.I told him NO,I know what you did.You loaded the shells and blew your pump gun up.I think it was a Savage.You did it,you live with it.No one was hurt that time either.Lucky

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 06:23 AM ET
Website Address:

George,

The very load noise is produced by a super sonic shock wave. Which results from the powder detonating in the gun instead of burning like it normally would. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 07:06 AM ET
Website Address:

Final thought, auto companies would never have recalls if they behaved like KI. All we need is a whistle blower @ White labs to come fwd for the real truth to surface. If the failures were caused by detonation, bad maintenance--KI would have nothing to hide.

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: jhoward
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 08:17 AM ET
Website Address:

No dog in this fight, and I have owned a KS-5 Special and liked the gun well enough, so no axes to grind with KI. But I can't help but notice how similar the damage is in all of the pictures. Always the right side of the receiver sheared off, except for the differences in the stocks, they could almost be the same gun.

No idea what caused the issue, detonation, over loaded shell, whatever. But in any pressure build up the weakest point of the container is the point where it fails. Seems that for some reason the right side of the K-80 receiver is weaker than the rest. Could be coincidence, but 3 similar results would at least seem to indicate a pattern.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: MTA Tom
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 09:25 AM ET
Website Address: http://www.downrangemfg.com/index.php/faqs

In reply to my request for clarification of their FAQ, I received the following from Duster Wads tech support:

"Wad pressure is not needed with modern shotgun powders."

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 09:33 AM ET
Website Address:

Wad pressure is never needed with modern smokeless powders. What's needed is direct wad contact with the powder charge. An air space will result in faulty ignition-bloopers or worse-maybe??

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: ivanhoe
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 11:26 AM ET
Website Address:

Just a Question. Given that the reloader (the person not the machine) is using the wad designed for the hull being loaded. How can the wad not contact the powder???

The wad is designed to fill the remaining space in the hull and the final crimp actually imparts some wad pressure on the powder.

Bob Lawless

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: G4AV8R
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 11:50 AM ET
Website Address:

Just a thought....does anyone know what would happen if a shell was loaded without a wad installed? Would all the airspace cause detonation? Randy

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 12:08 PM ET
Website Address:

Big hole in crimp, shot will fall out. No detonation, just a blooper. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 12:40 PM ET
Website Address:

Bob, you're assuming a typical reloader always uses the proper wad for each casing. I've seen more than one nit wit try to stuff pickup wads or wads designed for straight walled cases into tapered hulls than I'll care to admit. Remember, I sell loading components!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: gailmk67
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 01:50 PM ET
Website Address:

Bob,

I have had it happen to me (using the right/ suggested components)on a reputable progressive press. The wad seating die would sometime pull the wad up off the powder while you extracted the die. What was happening and this was a new press, the bottom of the die was "sharp enough" to imbed in the wad. Wad pressure was set as instructed by manufacturer and was not excessive. I noticed this happening and immediately stopped and examined the die and found the bottom edge sharp. Fortunately I had not loaded very many and I took those apart to examine. Sure enough, some of the wads were not set on the powder and the interior of the wad face showed the die had cut into them. I fixed the problem with a file and emery cloth and have not experience that issue since. This was on a 28ga not a 12. I do not believe that this problem created enough air gap between powder and wad to create a huge problem but why take the chance. I do believe that the 12ga would be less noticeable especially with 1oz or 7/8 loads doing this than the smaller gauges due to volume. So anything is possible.

Regards,Joe

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 04:44 PM ET
Website Address:

All the above is nonsense and speculation by amateur tech's---3 pictures with no statment of cause is speculation---I respect Bob more than most but if you are going to show you must tell---I could show a pic of a 870 blow-up but without the cause you might think the 870 is at fault----I heard the loud noise and saw the result----Bob's pics only show the result but not the cause and only 3 pics and we are to believe that all blow-ups on K-guns is a weak receiver with 1000s and 1000s of K-gun results of shooting ea yr---Sorry---I need proof or pics mean nothing to me--You can't make a case with 3 or 4 blow-ups in my opinion---You'd have to show 100s to make a case-And in the auto industry of accident cause you'd need more than 3 cases to make a recall---It'd take 100s-George@SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 05:50 PM ET
Website Address:

How can you possible compare the auto industry with Krieghoff. If ford sold I tenth of the focus it would out number Krieghoffs sold in any given year. As to pictures, show me the pictures of all these pguns that blow up. Let me guess what response will be,"I don't have to prove anything to you".

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: ivanhoe
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 06:35 PM ET
Website Address:

"Bob's pics only show the result but not the cause and only 3 pics and we are to believe that all blow-ups on K-guns is a weak receiver with 1000s and 1000s of K-gun results of shooting ea yr---Sorry---I need proof or pics mean nothing to me--"

George please show me where I said that K-guns have a weak receiver?????

So tell me where did your so called report shows the "cause". As a matter of fact show me where anything you had to say proves the cause.

I posted three pictures. They had nothing to do with what you said. I posted them in rebuttal to this post.

"If you don't have anything to contribute, then why the snide remarks concerning Krieghoff?

All of the blowups that I have been particularly privy to, none of them have been Krieghoffs. Where are the other blowups that people see, but don't post here? The blowups I have knowledge about, in recent times, have been autoloaders, and/or the result of usage or reloading mistakes."

His inference was that the people are making up these things and doesn't believe that K-guns blowup. I simply gave him three that I have photos of. You are trying to make a major conspiracy against K-gun out of three photos I posted.

Well that isn't the case yet you seem to keep referring to it as such. I told you I don't want an argument with you. It might be a good idea if you left it alone.

Bob Lawless

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: racer
Date: Fri, May 17, 2013 - 08:22 PM ET
Website Address:

I have no cat in this fight..... :) I've spent lots of time at trap ranges over the last 52 years- I've never seen a blown up gun. The folks that have seen 4-5 should probably take up golf or something...I sure would. Have fun. Dan

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Sat, May 18, 2013 - 09:34 AM ET
Website Address:

Racer---Your post says it all---4 or 5 unproven (cause) K-gun blow-ups in the space of time and some would have us believe that K.I. should rework the proven K-80----Not one(owner of a K-gun blow up) that I know of has come foward and accused K.I. of any faulty mfg of the K guns.I maintain that any K-80 can withstand 1000s amung 1000s of standard rounds of ammo including standard reloads,using mfg guidelines, without any blow-ups---Does anyone wonder that just maybe the cause of the 4 or 5 talked about (with pics) as posted may have been user neglect???Myself being a PROUD K-Gun owner,take issue with anyone making false actuations and innuendos, with no proof of any of the posted K-gun blow-ups (4 or 5) at the most----Golf is not a bad idea for some of the posters above---Much less dangerous--

Guess I should move on to avoid any further hard feelings with those I respect.---I'll sign off for now----George@SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Sat, May 18, 2013 - 11:02 PM ET
Website Address:

Most every blowup I have seen or heard of is due too owner neglect. 99% of those resulted in an bulged barrel or blown barrel. The problem and issue in this case is Not blown barrels but complete failure of the receiver as well. Unfortunately you will not here from KI or the owners in question because KI has purchased their silence. I'm sorry if you take issue with this but this is the way I see it.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Avatar
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 01:43 AM ET
Website Address:

Can anyone point to any documentation that an air gap above the powder would result in a "detonation" that produces a faster-than-normal "burn"?

My observation is that, even if this is possible, and even if it happened in this case, it would then be something that would happen occasionally with all trap guns. That is, since there's no reason to believe defective shells are used only in Krieghoffs, you would think that, for any shot fired in any trap gun, there is a ".whatever" chance of the gun blowing up because of an air gap in the shell. So, it doesn't really change the central question, do more K-guns blow up than other guns? And, if so, why?

If indeed K-guns have a greater propensity to blowups, it could be a design issue; it could also be simply that there are more K-guns through which an impressively-large large number of shells have been pushed, causing stress points in the metal to become critical. Since K-guns are so expensive, they may well stay in service longer.

What we lack is information. There should be a central agency keeping track of catastropic gun failures, just as with automobiles. Manufacturers should not try to hide the information the way K.I. apparently does. Individuals whose K-gun explodes should, for the sake of the rest of us, publicize all the details of the mishap, complete with photos, before they go off and negotiate a secrecy agreement with K.I.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 08:54 AM ET
Website Address:

Avatar,

The last time I did a web search for smokeless powder detonation there were 185,000 hits. Use Bing or Google search engine and you will be rewarded. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Leo
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 08:59 AM ET
Website Address:

I think there is something missing to the "air gap" theory. Shotgun and pistol powders are very similar in burn rate, as a matter of the fact, most are even sold as "shotgun AND pistol powder. A .38 spl target load and .45acp target loads are about the same pressures as a handicap 12 gauge shell. I have shot 1000's of .45acp target loads and 1000's of .38spl target loads with Clays and other shotgun powders. EVERY single one of those loads has air gap, in the .38, the air space is probably twice the area as the powder occupies. None of them "detonate".

I also like Titegroup pistol powder. There is airgap for that powder in every proper pistol load it is recommended for. Titegroup makes a great shotgunpowder for the handicap lines. If my press is adjusted correctly and the wads are working as they should, there is no airgap. They shoot great also.

I think the "air gap" theory is on the same realm as flying pink unicorns.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 09:26 AM ET
Website Address:

IP and Avatar---With respect,you make it look like K-GUNS are blowing up on a regular basis----Of all the 100rds of 1000s in use today,there are 4 or 5 with damaged receivers and no proof of cause----If there are more,please present them with facts and proof of damage---It is my understanding that K.I has not bought the shooters off in secret but with an approved settlement as is done by other brands of same like incidents. If you read and reread the posts above you will note reference to other gun brands of blow-ups. I for one was present when a Rem 870 blew up 50 yds away from me---That being the only blow-up in my 45 yrs of shooting--Remember---We are talking of a very low % of damaged guns compared to guns in use---I wish there would be none but that's not realistic in my opinion-George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 01:59 PM ET
Website Address:

Gee, I was standing behind and coaching one of my buddies when he blew a Perazzi TM-X into much smaller pieces. Must have been those thin Perazzi barrels and receiver at fault-not his pathetic reloads.

Another good friend destroyed his Perazzi TM-1 at the PA shoot. Another faulty Perazzi again? He's now the proud owner of a K-80 he feels much safer with shooting!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 02:15 PM ET
Website Address:

I'm sure it happens. Do you have pictures?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 02:49 PM ET
Website Address:

OUCH!!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 03:05 PM ET
Website Address:

George! Are you ok? Or did your K80 blow up? Why the ouch?

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 04:00 PM ET
Website Address:

I had an itch---It was from an Oleo bite---Did he say A perazzi blow up???

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 04:20 PM ET
Website Address:

The TM-X owner is dead and the pics died with him. He also ended up with a K-80 before he departed. I attended the SHOT show in Atlanta GA shortly after the blowup and encouraged Perazzi USA to help him out on another gun. They did provide a deal on a new DB-81 combo which he promptly traded. Seems he couldn't stop blinking his eyes whenever he shot a Perazzi.

The TM-1 owner is alive and well and still breaking great scores with his K-80. And to think his best friends wouldn't even loan him another gun unless he bought new shells and finished breaking a 200 straight with a borrowed K-80.

Why take photos of trash!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 04:46 PM ET
Website Address:

OUCH!!!I just got another bite----SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 05:27 PM ET
Website Address:

SHHHHHH!!!SJB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Jon Reitz
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 05:29 PM ET
Website Address:

Dawg,

Stand up.

Move away from the keyboard.

Go directly to the fridge.

Grab a cold one.

Now sit down and chill.

:-)

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: southjblue
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 05:37 PM ET
Website Address:

Oleo----They can't take a hit----Hang in there---George

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 05:57 PM ET
Website Address:

Jon, I'm still stressed out from those Keystone Doubles today. I'll refresh myself plenty later. At least it wasn't a squad from hell!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 1perazzi
Date: Sun, May 19, 2013 - 08:23 PM ET
Website Address:

New tread just for you!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Avatar
Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 - 01:55 AM ET
Website Address:

I do realize not many K-guns (or any other trap guns) have blown up. However, I wish manufactures or some other agency would keep and show us statistics, so we could see for ourselves how often it happens, and whether it is linked to the number of shells through the gun, particular models, etc.

As for air space above the powder causing it to detonate with catastropic results, I have done some googling, and have talked to a few people, but have found no clear-cut answer. Some people flat-out say it isn't possible with the smokeless powders used in shotgun shells, that they are formulated to prevent that happening even if you stick a blasting cap into a cannister of powder; some say it can happen, but not with the small amount in a 12ga shell; others are sure it can happen and explain why. There's also another hypothesis involving, not a gap between the powder and wad, but a defective initial burn that results in a wad stuck half way up the barrel and a shock wave traveling back to trigger the detonation of the remaining powder.

Apparently, no one has reproduced detonation happening with a 12ga shell in a lab.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: Cyrus
Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 - 07:24 AM ET
Website Address:

Has any one given a thought on any complications after a receiver is engraved by an after-market engraver. I am sure they would have to reharden it, but look at all the material that is removed from the sides of the receiver that is in question. I have a M32 receiver( softer metal than a K80) engraved by Bill Mains. Looked at the amount of material removed and started to think. It's a Sporting Clay's gun and I will think twice before I drop in any Super Sport 1300 fps loads. If you are fimiliar with this work, you know he is very competent, but really does deep engraving. Does anyone have one of his aftermarket engravings and/or have any comments. BTW the gun has K80 upgraded internals and Barrel. After reading some of the above wonder if thats actually good or not.

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 - 11:08 AM ET
Website Address:

The pictures posted by Ivanhoe, seem to reinforce the head space theory--look at the discoloration of the two breach surfaces, also it appears there is pitting around the firing pin. Flame away.

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: likes-to-shoot
Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 - 11:38 AM ET
Website Address:

635 G......what does the G stand for....Goofy?

Your qualifications and notes on your personal inspection of these guns please!!!!!!!

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: 635 G
Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 - 11:48 AM ET
Website Address:

G-stands for Gold crew on a ballistic missile submarine--our qualifications were zero defects, have an open mind--colors and pitting don't lie- there is unequal powder burns, where there should be none. Also, I was qualified to handle nuclear weapons.

Phil Berkowitz

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: likes-to-shoot
Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 - 12:21 PM ET
Website Address:

Good for you...does that still give you qualifications to analyze shotguns using only a picture on the internet? Or quote a nameless supposedly gunsmith from a big boat?

I personally saw that K-80 when this happened. In fact I was next to the guy that took the picture........What pitting are you seeing in a cell phone picture? I saw flakes of something but I'm not sure what it was since I didn't touch the gun or analyze the cause on the spot. As far as the powder burns go, lets see, oh yea the gun had just had a malfunction less than ten minutes before the picture ...LOL LOL

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: hmb
Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 - 12:24 PM ET
Website Address:

Maybe he needs to check for radiation, could have been a micro nuclear detonation. HMB

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Subject: K-80 blow up
From: oleolliedawg
Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 - 01:25 PM ET
Website Address:

We had a few 175mm cannons fail in Vietnam back in the 60's. Pieces were scattered over a wide area. No conclusive evidence for those either.

There you have it-excessive headspace!!

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