For a good score in SC's, all you need is a sharp # 2 pencil with a good eraser.

Curt

If you're talking about the Hunters' Tour of WNY, I recommend 1 ounce of #7.5 and a LM. If you're a diehard 1 & 1/8 ounce shooter, an IC will suffice. I also recommend leaving home with the intention of shooting it twice. There are some pretty long drives in the dead of winter just to shoot 50 targets.

You really can't do anything wrong, just don't cripple yourself by overthinking it and be sure to share in the ballbusting.

Tim (X2 fan), quote: "It all depends on how the course is set up."

BINGO!

I know the advice to use F or LF won't cut the mustard at our seven stand course, where the majority of the clays are shot at shorter distances.

IC used to rule on our seven stand until we started using a traphouse and put some crossers out at that distance. (We're shooting from behind the 27 yard line so the range will remain available for large trap shoots.)

What advice would I give a beginner?

Use an IC, LM or M for the shorter range courses, and use a tighter choke as needed for ranges with more distance. Don't bother changing choke sizes between stands.

Try to stick with 7.5 shot. While 8 shot can increase pellet density, some of the clays are tougher to break than trap clays. I've dusted some of the tougher clays at distance with 8 shot. Never had that happen with 7.5. Still, I sometimes use 8 shot because that is what was on sale.

Don't worry about shot quality. Get the cheap Mao Mart promo loads and put the savings into shooting more. Once you know what you are doing, or if you become good enough for competition, revisit this issue.

With the exception of 8 shot sometimes dusting a target, almost all of your lost birds are going to be due to shooting behind the clay. No shot size, no choke, no gauge is going to help you if you cannot swing though and get far enough in front of the clay.

Rabbits are especially instructive for the issue of shooting behind the target, as the pellet pattern often is very visible when it strikes the ground. When I've seen beginners miss a lot, I suggest they arrange to have nothing but rabbits thrown for practice, so they can see this relationship. Some clubs charge more for doing this, because rabbits are more expensive targets, but you should only have to do it once.

Does this mean there is no merit in changing choke sizes, shot size, shot hardness, etc., on a course? Of course not. But this is the kind of stuff that ought to be done AFTER you've mastered judging the proper lead and are not shooting behind the clay. Because fiddling with equipment details will do nothing but mask the basic problem of shooting behind the clay.

Mike made no sense regarding Anthony since I never claimed that one would be foolish to use one choke per station- obviously single barrels shooters have do that- duh. I consider using one choke for all shots from 10 to 50 yards to be foolish but whatever blows up anybody's skirt if they think that's a good idea. How many good skeet shooters use full or modified choke at skeet? None, I'd venture to say so why shoot close targets with those chokes on a sporting course? How many good trap shooters shoot 27 yard handicap with IC so, again, why handicap yourself with IC for long shots?

Anybody who can't change a choke without "fumbling" shouldn't be operating something as complicated as a shotgun anyway. Operating a barrel selector without "fumbling" is probably within the capabilities of most people too. Of course mike assumes that shotguns have barrel selectors and some don't, uncluding mine.

If I was too poor to buy more than 2 chokes and/or lacking the eye-hand coordination to change them, they would be tight ones without a barrel selector- IM and F. If I had a barrel selector I would go M and F. Personally, I'd rather use a tight choke at close distances than the reverse- JMHO and I'm not a professional coach.

Many good sporting coaches recommend 3 chokes: IC, M, F and that's probably good advice. Having 8-10 with lots of duplicates seems like overkill to me, although Briley (or whoever) will be happy.

mike campbell,

The hunter's tour is what I am referring to.

"Mike made no sense regarding Anthony since I never claimed that one would be foolish to use one choke per station- obviously single barrels shooters have do that- duh."

Single barrel shooters don't HAVE to use one choke....they CHOOSE to use a gun with only one choke. Why would they do that? Obviously because they think there are many things more important than using 2 different chokes. If they thought they had to have 2 chokes, they'd shoot a doublegun.

I shoot a double barrel gun for sporting clays. It could have choke tubes, but they are fixed. The chokes could be different, but they are the same. They could be any constriction, but they are IMod/IMod. Works for me, certainly not for a beginner, and probably not for a lot of other accomplished shooters.

The major point I attempted to make was that my advice to a BEGINNER at sporting clays is to stick with one do-everything choke until they learn the fundamentals. At that stage, different chokes can be a HINDRANCE to learning. I don't know ANY sporting clays instructors who saddle a new shooter with a bag of choke tubes.

.410 With Full chokes....

I've shut many grown men up with those before...

Shot one of the toughest courses I have ever shot last weekend. It was the Preliminary event at the Ohio State Sporting Clays shoot. I shot LM/LM the entire course and broke every presentation (at least once).

Due to the open face on most SC targets, a LM will usually work. But, if you have a 55 yard edge crosser, a LF or F choke may be better.

A starter should hit easier courses and learn bird identification, basic gun control, and leads before moving on to more competitive courses.

I run Mod and Improved mod at pretty much every single target presentation. I will occasionally switch out to a Cylinder or Skeet choke on some rabbits.

I just started shooting sporting a few months back - have only been to one course (Raahauges) and have only gone about seven times so far (two fun shoots, one for fun, the 2nd as my first registered event), but it's been humbling and fun! I agree with the comments about newer shooters focusing less on choke selection and more on the fundamentals of shooting varying target presentations first. I've settled on a 32" A302 with a LM for my SC shooting, which works for me at my level and at my home course. I say grab an IC and LM and go enjoy yourself :)

Interesting theory there, mike, that people shoot autos because they think that only having one choke on a station gives them an advantage. Most people I know that shoot them do so for the reduced recoil and live with the obvious choking disadvantage, especially on a station with one very short target and one very long one. In fact, very few of the top sporting shooters (men anyway) use autos anymore, mostly because of the reliability factor but possibly due in part to choke limitations. While duffers like you and I can afford to lose a target because of a failure to feed every once in awhile, somebody like Bobby Fowler can't.

So 3 chokes for shooting an o/u is being saddled with "a bag of chokes". That's really funny- by my calculations that means 2 in the gun and 1 in that big ole bag. Maybe shooters need a large backpack to carry that one choke- LOL.

Is a flat shooting gun preferred for sporting clays?

How do you define "flat"?

My Remington autos shot 50/50 for me and I did not like having to cover the clay with the muzzle. Swapped on monte carlo stocks and changed the POI to 60/40. The clay is now just above the bead.

"Most people I know that shoot them do so for the reduced recoil and live with the obvious choking disadvantage, especially on a station with one very short target and one very long one."

Put me in that camp. The felt recoil reduction more than offsets the issue of using one choke for both clays for me.

The only way I'd go to a double barrel would be if it had a Clyde Slide or Soft Touch installed in the stock.

I would say 50/50 or 60/40 is what most use.

i was shooting at a target where the trap was about 35 to 40 yards staight out from the cage(shooting) position. the taget was a trap style target going straight away. 10 shots with a mod choke and 1 oz #7.5's cracked one target in half.

Switched to a improved mod, shot 10 more, broke 8 of 10 birds pretty decisively.

so for me it all depends on the target. That being said starting out i agree most targets ic to mod will do it.

Rich, Yes it is. Same as Skeet. In Sporting Clays you get to shoot a fair number of falling targets and to break these with a high POI gun really triples the difficulty factor in breaking them. You have to hold much lower than your brain wants too. break em all Jeff

Johnnie,

Few of the top sporting shooters use semiautos?.....Johnnie, Johnnie, there are MANY top shooters who shoot semiautos....most put in a LM/M/IM choke and leave it....once in a blue moon, they will shoot cylinder/skeet at the "in your face" presentations....many years ago, Bruce Buck suggested people buy only three chokes: One for near; one for everything and one for FAR.....most neophytes take that to mean (cylinder or skeet), (light mod), and (IM/Light Full).....most X-1 shooters shoot only IM ....

The one choke factor is VERY SELDOM a handicap to good shooters as opposed to the fatigue from a heavy over/under and it's RECOIL......

By the way, many of the top shooters who are now shooting o/us are doing so because Blaser, Perazzi and Krieghoff PAY THEM to shoot their guns..these guys are SPONSORED.....The gun manufacturers do it in order to get gullible people as yourself to buy an overpriced over/under......there is a lot more profit margin in an over/under......

If using an over and under IC and SK are a good all around choice.

Name all the top male shooters currently shooting autos banger. It will be a short list.

Good grief, what a wild theory that the only reason the top sporting shooters shoot o/u guns is because they are paid to do so. Hello, they can and are also being paid to shoot autos.

It's ridiculous to assume without any facts that the profit margins are greater for o/u than autos or, for that matter, rifles or pistols. Since you claim to be an expert, what percentage is the profit margin on each of these?

So everybody who doesn't shoot an auto is gullible huh bango? Anybody who would say something that moronic is too clueless to bother with.

Yukon, I assume you've never been to a big sporting shoot if you think S and IC a good choice. The bigger shoots don't throw the lolipop targets usually thrown at the small shoots. If you only bring those 2 to the Nationals or US Open, I'll bet you will be buying more at the vendors.

Johnnie....Johnnie....let's see if you can grasp this idea: Most of these guys established their reputations as premier shooters with semiautos and once established, were quickly SPONSORED by O/U manufacturers to feature their guns....the payoff is a free gun to use and monetary rewards.....if you don't know who they are, you are just too DENSE to bother.....

Your ASININE contention that top shooters in sporting shoot o/us because they are superior to a semiauto is just...ASININE.....you really need to talk with these guys in private and hear what they REALLY THINK......

"Name all the top male shooters currently shooting autos banger. It will be a short list.

Good grief, what a wild theory that the only reason the top sporting shooters shoot o/u guns is because they are paid to do so. Hello, they can and are also being paid to shoot autos."

These statements are at odds with each other. You want names to prove top shooters are shooting autos, then you state they can and are being paid to shoot them.

Some of you might find this interesting. Here are a few top shooters and their guns.

Thank you Brian in Oregon for showing what top shooters shoot. One thing that helps for close shots is Fiochi spreader loads. Really helps for close rabbits and other close shots, especially for those shooting an auto or a gun with fixed chokes. A very top shooter shoots his Grandad's M12 trap grade in pump events and uses spreaders on closer shots. He wins or is near the top in most pump events.

From my experience shooting clays and watching others shoot:

If you have a 55-yard edge on crosser, you ain't going to hit it many times no matter what choke you have. Most presentations are within 35 yards, and many are within 25 yards.

I think 2 skeet chokes and 2 mod chokes work well. Use both skeets for two really close birds, two mods for two longer birds, and one of each for most pairs that feature one close and one no-so-close.

I think Gil Ashe recommends skeet and mod for the O/U choke selection.

Danny

20% of those top shooters shoot autos which shows banger to be wrong. Truth is that o/u guns rule the roost at all 3 of the shotgunning games, not to mention the olympic versions of these games. There are no doubt many reasons why most target shooters prefer o/u shotguns but it can't be rationally argued that they do. BTW bango, you might think about getting help for those temper tantrums.

Brian I don't know what you meant. All I said is that a few top shooters are paid to shoot whatever guns they want to shoot. Example: Bobby Fowler who shot a Browing Gold auto for a long time. He was sponsored by Browning, not surprisingly. He decided to start shooting an o/u because the auto cost him a couple of targets at a big shoot so started shooting a Browning o/u. Browning didn't care what he shot so long as it was a Browning. Beretta doesn't care whether one of their sponsored shooters shoots one of their fine autos or one of their fine o/us either. Banger's contention that gun makers only sponsor o/u shooters is demonstrably false.

I have nothing against autos and own several even though I prefer shooting o/us. My reason has nothing do do with reliability or one choke. It's simple, I reload and can't do that with autos, or at least can't do it very well. Yes I know about shell catchers for autos but that's not a good answer for lost hulls IMO.

I shoot an MX8 @ 9.5 pounds. My 391 is 8.70 pounds and feels whippy, thus I prefer the MX8. I've always shot LM/LM, so to shoot 1 choke....no big deal.

Go through the Sporting Clays magazine. Nearly 1/3 of the super vet and senior super vet shooter profiles for All American team members are shooting autos. 3 of 8 are 391's.

One of them, Ron Shaffer said "I put a choke in my gun that will break any target. I spend my choke changing time watching targets".

So in the highest levels there is some choke changing.

But, at the State shoot last week (nearly 300 shooters), I saw about 7 autos on the course in my flight.

Dunno, Johnnie boy...but, a few weeks back I was shooting with a few of those "top shooters" and truth be told, they would still be top shooters if they went back to their semiautos....

Typically, a younger shooter establishes superior skills shooting a 391...he/she is noticed and magically, an o/u appears (I would not turn down the money or the free use of a gun either)....then, NAIVE and GULLIBLE people go out and buy the brand of o/u the "top shooter" is now shooting....the manufacturers make more money and all is well....until, of course, sales are flat and a "new marketing feature" is given to said Sponsored "top shooter" and again, NAIVE and GULLIBLE wannabes trade in their guns for the newfangled "superior" gun.....

By the way, Johnnie, many "top shooters" have gone back to semiautos.....hopefully, you will go to Nationals and will look at the gun racks....you will see MANY a semiauto....

That Ron Shafer guy you speak of has a title or two to prove choke changing is between the ears. US Opens,National Championships and a few world titles. I could name a couple dozen top shooters that would be shooting autos if they were not paid or sponsored to shoot an O/U. Auotos do not need sponsored shooters to sell them. High dollar O/U's need sponsored shooters to help sell guns to shooters that buy the hype. Perazzi,Krieghoff,Blaser and a few other high dollar manufacturers do not make autos so they have no choice but to push the stack barrels. In reality there is only one company that makes a reliable and proven high volume auto. So for many there is no other option if they want sponsored but to shoot an o/u. They dang sure don't shoot o/u's so they can have two chokes.

If it will stop your incoherent ranting banga, I'll agree that the only people who shoot o/u shotguns at any of the target games do so only because they are paid to do so by the manufacturers or their mommies or because they are sheep who are so naive and gullible that they can't see that autos are inherently superior and o/us are obsolete.

Yes sir, nearly all top skeet, trap and sporting clays shooters shoot autos, except those who are too stupid to do so, having not been enlightened by your blinding brilliance. Further, nearly all the shooters at the Olympics shot autos. Kim Rhode won her gold medal with an auto which was cleverly disguised as an o/u. Further, all 8 of those shooters in Brian's link were really shooting autos which were similarly disquised.

You have a few insecurity issues there John? Sure makes you look like you have short mans syndrome the way you name call and make personal attacks. What did i state that is not a fact?