OT Electrical helpMost Recent Posts First
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| Posted By | Posted Date/Time |
| Dougbbbb | 28-Jul-12 - 02:19 PM ET |
| grntitan | 28-Jul-12 - 02:24 PM ET |
| need to shoot more | 28-Jul-12 - 02:26 PM ET |
| Dougbbbb | 28-Jul-12 - 02:28 PM ET |
| charleyj10 | 28-Jul-12 - 02:39 PM ET |
| 635 G | 28-Jul-12 - 02:57 PM ET |
| charleyj10 | 28-Jul-12 - 03:13 PM ET |
| texaszephyr | 28-Jul-12 - 03:23 PM ET |
| 635 G | 28-Jul-12 - 03:35 PM ET |
| Dougbbbb | 28-Jul-12 - 03:38 PM ET |
| Catpower | 28-Jul-12 - 03:51 PM ET |
| 635 G | 28-Jul-12 - 04:18 PM ET |
| charleyj10 | 28-Jul-12 - 05:23 PM ET |
| Dougbbbb | 28-Jul-12 - 05:30 PM ET |
| HSLDS | 28-Jul-12 - 05:43 PM ET |
| grntitan | 28-Jul-12 - 05:47 PM ET |
| wireguy | 28-Jul-12 - 05:48 PM ET |
| HSLDS | 28-Jul-12 - 06:02 PM ET |
| Dougbbbb | 28-Jul-12 - 06:04 PM ET |
| wireguy | 28-Jul-12 - 06:53 PM ET |
| Johnny | 28-Jul-12 - 07:08 PM ET |
| Jason Hassler | 28-Jul-12 - 07:13 PM ET |
| Model Number 12 | 29-Jul-12 - 12:13 AM ET |
| halfmile | 29-Jul-12 - 07:52 AM ET |
| HSLDS | 29-Jul-12 - 08:10 AM ET |
| Sprkee | 29-Jul-12 - 08:24 AM ET |
Hello
I have a tandem 20amp breaker with the white wire to the bottom and black wire to the top. Is this a 220v or 115v setup
Thanks
Doug
That should be 220 as both legs are on the breaker. 120 would only have a single leg(blk).
Correct that is a two pole ( 220 ) volt breaker
Thank you!
Is the red wire part of the same cable?
Charlie
That is not a 220v breaker-both handles are on the same leg--is two 120v single pole breakers tied together, if they are sharing a common neutral, the installation is against code.
Phil Berkowitz
Phil, that is what I thought. I am still worried about the red wire below that pair, it looks like it is part of the same cable.
Charlie
Red and black wires on breaker below (220v) appear to be of a larger guage probably 10 ga. The two breakers above seem to have a smaller guage wire probably 12 or 14ga and would not likely be part of the same cable as the red black pair. Take a real close look.
Bob
It appears the red & black are on a 2 pole--240v breaker--most likely a dryer hook up.
Phil Berkowitz
The red is not part of the same cable. The 20 amp breaker with the white /black feeds a pool pump.
Doug
The circuit in question is 2 pole or 240 volt, it looks like a a GE box and they made two different breakers that would fit, one was thin, the other was thick
It made it possible to install more circuits if you ran out, the reason the levers are hooked together is if one leg trips it trips both
Got 6 of them on the farm
The white & the black are on a twin or a tandem breaker---there will not be 240 v between the whit & black wire---they are on the same side of a single pase leg.
Phil Berkowitz
Ok, I see the double pole breaker at the bottom of the picture. I was fooled by the routing of the red wire.
Charlie
Wire guy
Ok. So now I'm more confused than ever. Is this circuit pushing 220 or not.
The only wat to be 100% certain is to measure the voltage across the two wires with a V/Ohm meter.
I went to the basement and looked in a box of odd breakers and sure enough I found some single breaker sized ganged sets that are in fact 220 ganged breaker sets. One is by Stab-Lok (yeah, I know - they start fires) and the other I do not recognize, but both will set into their appropriate panels and pull 220V even though they are half-height breakers - go figure.
If you measure across the two wires with a volt meter you will get either 220V (draws power from both hot legs in the panel) or 0V (drawing from the same hot leg in the panel). Be careful measuring, even if the voltage is 0 that's across the two wires - doesn't mean across one wire and you will also be 0 volts...
A test meter can be your friend. Sure looks like a 220 to me but I'm not an electrician. I suspect with a handle like "Wireguy" that he is. I would in turn take his advice although if it were my house, I'd have grabbed my meter and checked it out myself.
It's always a good idea to know what all your breakers are for and what voltage they are. At least in my opinion anyway.
Just Say'n.....
OK, I think someone pointed out the possibility of that one oddball I think GE breaker that could be hitting both poles. It looks like there is a tie bar between the two handles so this may be exactly that breaker, in which case there is 240 across the two poles. Man I hate those breakers. I've seen so many of the burn out on the buss bar. It may be driving something like a pool pump motor that is 240 only.
They do make double single pole breakers with tie bars - two 120 V circuits tied together. BUT, you would expect to see two black wires (black & red?) set into it, not the white and black in the photo.
These breakers would be used for a tied together system. Think a blower/air handler and a furnace burner as an example. the idea is if one trips (say the blower) it takes the other with it (the burner) - a very good thing if you think about it.
With this in mind, the only way to be sure is to measure the voltage across the two feeds.
If it is 220 V it makes sense for a pool pump.
If it is 0 V (meaning two lines being fed from the same 120 V leg) then there are some questions to ask...
You will need to trace those wires back to where they enter the panel - are they coming from the same cable?? Are there two different cables?? How many wires (and types) in each cable involved in this circuit.
At the pool end can you find the ends of these cables? Where do they go????
Yes it's an old ge breaker and it is driving a pool pump. I just wanted to make sure to change the setting on the new pool motor from 115 to 220. Either way I'll get a voltage meter later tonight. Thanks for all the replys.
Doug
About that voltage meter. One Doug to another, buy a cheap analogue, not a cheap digital. On ac work a digital will lie to you. I have actually measured 120 volts across a multi-wire cable that the entire cable was laying out on the lawn attached to nothing. This was with two different digitals owned by two different electricians. The internal resistance of an analogue cuts out voltages which have no current attendant.
It's a 240v GE breaker like Catpower said. It connects to both legs of 120.
If this box is designed like mine then it is configured as 220/240. Don't forget to recode the white wire black or red on the other end with some electrical tape so anyone messing with it knows it's not a neutral.
Doug, If this circuit is feeding a pump motor then check the nameplate on the motor for the voltage/amperage ratings. If the plate says 240, 230, 220 or 208 volts then it requires a 2 wire feed from your source. It is common to feed a motor like this with a 12-2 (with ground) cable. Your wire may be NM (Romex), MC (metal clad) or individual conductors in pipe. I'm assuming that this motor has been run before, so with the breaker on, test your voltage at the motor. You should have 240 volts phase-to-phase at the motor and 120 volts phase-to-ground also at the motor. If you do and the motor doesn't run than it's no good. If the motor is working then everything is fine, skip the testing.
In order for these to be 120 volts-to-ground (as suggested) there must be a neutral conductor, NOT THE GROUND! If the grounding conductor is being used as a neutral then it's not correct.
As far as the white wire being used as an ungrounded conductor, the other posters are correct, the white wire is supposed to be re-identified with another color. Black, red or blue are usually used to identify 120/208 volt ungrounded conductors, but the NEC says that the only colors that matter and are required are white or grey for marking the grounded (neutral) conductor and green or green with a yellow stripe for marking the grounding conductor. It's common to find the white wire being used as an ungrounded conductor without being re-identified in 240 volt applications.
You should find all the information about your panel and the breakers that are listed for it on a label on the inside of the panel door.
There should be a piece of red tape on that white wire.
The fact that the 2 breakers are adjacent makes it 220, I know of no panels without interlaced bus bars.
It's common to grap a piece of Romex for this installation, and as long as the wire sixe is right for the load that's fine. But a white wire should not be on the hot side of any panel. Put the red tape on it now. Someone could get killed if the white was opened by an inexperienced person thinking it was a neutral.
HM
A couple of you are missing the issue here.
These are half height breakers, and in MOST situations they will share a common bus, thus each one pulling 120 V from the same leg.
Yes, these are linked breakers, but that also is common in 120 V applications when you need to tie two circuits together for safety reasons.
They do make half height 240V breakers, but they are not common, they only work in certain boxes, and they need to be installed off-set to the normal pattern of breakers in a pannel (notice the gap between then breakers in question and the one beneath it?).
The question here is which of the two types is it?
If there were more pictures showing between the breakers, if the breakers were pulled and we could see the back side it woud be easy, but based on what you can see the answer is not 100%. The only way to be 100% certain is to measure the voltage across the two wires.
The breakers could either be 120 on each leg of the power buss of the panel or it can be 220 volts between breakers . The best way to tell is with a meter or remove the breakers and look to see if they are on the same buss or on separate buss of the panel. If you look at the lower breaker at is much bigger than the upper breakers in question . Most buss on house panels will take 2 narrow breakers or one larger breaker ,as the lower breaker in the picture looks like . The breakers in question could be stradeling between the 2 busses and therfore could be 220 volt. A meter will tell you and if not with a meter ,remove breakers and see if they are sharing the same buss of the panel. MAKE SURE MAIN POWER TO BREAKERS IS TURNED OFF ! IF you turn off panel you can remove breaker without fear of getting a shock .
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OT Electrical help
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