Here you go. Just convert ounces to grains for the shot charge(bullet weight)

7000 grains = 1 lb

In AUS we are restricted to 1 oz loads for every event except handicap. The scores have increased since they did that, we still shoot 3 hole targets at 55 yards.

There are some fine loads in the 1 oz range, inc the Winchester lite handicap (silver shell case) that punches out 1300 fps, or if you prefer lighter their little xtra lite 1190 is a beautiful load too.

Personally I shoot 1 oz of #8 at around 1250fps and it's a great load.

Gentlemen:

All things being equal it is hard to argue against having more lead in the air vs. less lead. The problem of course, is that all things are never equal.

If I were immune to recoil, I'd shoot nothing but 1.125 oz. shells. I'm NOT immune. Over the course of a multiple day event, heavier shells will absoulutely cause me to make errors that result in missed targets. When I execute properly, one ounce of 8's is more than enough pellets to completely reduce a target to dust.

Here's the question every shooter must answer for him/herself:

"Which is a greater "handicap", the increased felt recoil of 1.125 oz. shells or the reduced number of pellets in a one ounce shell?

Speaking only for myself, greater recoil is clearly the larger disadvantage.

sissy

I can't tell the difference between a dust ball produced by a 1oz load and one produced by a 1 1/8.

Perhaps the dust particles are somewhat smaller when clobbered with 1 1/8 oz of #8 rather than 1 oz, but it still looks like the target was instantly erased when centered.

I'd try to validate my theory in the scientific methodology and dedication of our own Sir Neil Winston, but I can't find a practical method to catch me some of 'them' elusive target dust rascals yet for the calibrated digital caliper diameter test.

I'm convinced the most popular shot payloads (1; 1 1/8), drams (2 3/4; 3), and shot sizes (7.5; 8) shall not produce a perceivable change in how well a centered target is broken.

The effect of recoil on Homo sapiens is something that is cumulative I believe. (So is the effect of confidence.)

In the ilk of Pavlov, my friends Dale and Kaska have been engaged in a protracted experiment related to the effects of cumulative recoil. Unfortunately they've employed the services of their sweet adolescent Border Collie Polly rather than some mangy stray. You see Kaska carries this squirt bottle filled with water that she fires point blank at Polly's face any time my sadistic friend feels poor Polly has transgressed in some minute manner. The experiment has gotten to the point that all Kaska has to do is grab the awful torture contraption and merely threaten sweet Polly causing the pup to cringe and clinch her lovely eyes as she recoils from the ensuing blast.

If you watch closely you will see many Pollys out there on the firing line cringing just like her as they pound themselves with 3 dram super-duper high-speed low-drag lead-heavy ballistic bombs.

If you really believe you'll become a champion because you shoot 1 1/8s vs. someone with the same skill level shooting 1 oz, I submit that you may be delusional.

Guy Babin

Guy,

Call me delusional. I am not skilled enough to center every target. I feel that by shooting the 1 1/8oz load I can better utilize a slightly more open choke. Even if this only benefits my kill zone (diameter of effective shot pattern) by an inch or two will definitely be an advantage. I do not subscribe to shooting 1200fps for singles regardless of the pellet count.

To those of you that are skilled enough to center every shot: Why shoot 1oz or 7/8oz loads? Would not just one pellet be enough? Just as insurance you could even load five or six pellets. Obviously I am just kidding. But it sure seems the more pellets you can throw at a bird the better your chances of a kill. How many times have any of us put shot on paper and observed a hole on the pattern big enough to drive a bird right on thru untouched.

If the only way we can stay in the game physically is by shooting a lighter recoiling load I am all for it. My original post hinted at the suggestion that going to 1 oz and increasing the velocity was counter productive.

By the way, which recoils harder 7 1/2's or 8's?? (LOL)

All in fun, Marc

Marc,

I will admit I have wondered the same thing regarding velocity and shot payloads. To date I've been too lazy to do the math.

At what point does increasing velocity of a 1oz load cross the recoil force threshold produced by a 1 1/8 oz 2 3/4, or 3 dr load in a given firearm?

I miss Pat Ireland at times like these........

P.S. Marc-My intent was NOT to imply that I center all of my targets. I am pretty hard on the first target in doubles tho!!

Guy

If you decrease the shot weight 11% and increase the velocity 11% the resulting recoil will not be changed. For a reduction of a 1.125 oz load to a 1 once load just multiply the 1.125 oz load velocity by 1.125 to find the velocity that gives you the same recoil resultant.

So,

Velocity and mass have a 1:1 ratio skyman.... My Louisiana GED tells me otherwise.

Guy B.

I'm with Guy on this one. Marc

I never said it had a 1:1 ratio. If you keep Pw, Gw and recoil energy constant, Bw and Mv will be inversely proportional.

If You look at the above formula

(BwMv + 4700Pw)^2/64.348Gm

The only thing that is going to change is the Bw and Mv. Pw might change a small amount. But lets assume the powder and wad weight remain the same. So now we have

(Bw1Mv1 + 4700Pw)^2/64.348Gm=(Bw2Mv2 + 4700Pw)^2/64.348Gm

We can multiple both sides by 64.348Gm and get the following

(Bw1Mv1 + 4700Pw)^2=(Bw2Mv2 + 4700Pw)^2

Now lets take the square root of both sides

(Bw1Mv1 + 4700Pw)=(Bw2Mv2 + 4700Pw)

Now lets subtract 4700Pw from each side

Bw1Mv1=Bw2Mv2

Lets solve for Mv2 now

Mv2=(Bw1Mv1)/Bw2

Lets put some real numbers in now

Bw1=1.125 oz Bw2=1 oz Mv1=1150 fps

So Mv2=1293.75

There is some small error there since Bw=shot + wad. I was approximating since a 33 grain wad is small compared to 492 grains of shot it was insignificant.

Bw1=1.125oz + 33 grains = .075 lbs Bw2=1 oz + 33 grains = .0672 lbs Mv1=1150 fps

So Mv2=1283.48

So the multiplier is 1.116 instead of the 1.125 I gave earlier for a 1 1/8 oz down to a 1 oz load. This assumes the gun, powder and wad weight stays the same.

This is a graph of velocity vs weight using the figures from the Hogdon Reloading Manual

What does your Louisiana GED tell you?

Skydiver.......How about graphing/plotting the Recoil (ft-lbs)vs Velocity (fps), making the assumption of a 9# trap gun. The same graph could be used for 7/8, 1, and 11/8 oz. (3 plots on one graph). I would suspect that these types of graphs are on-line somewhere.....just not sure how to find them.

This is using the formula from the Hogdon Manual