I sure like my Browning Model 12 in 20ga for upland.

A Model 12, 20 is like an anchor compared to a 28, 870. Remington engineers set it up to handle as quick as a whip, the 410 too. I notice all these folks with their heavy pieces in horse rolling calibers never a one claimed to ever have shot a 870 in 28. Just what I figured.

In fact, I have shot a 28 and 410 in both the 870 and 1100. Very nice guns, but I don't think they are light years ahead of the M12 20ga. If I was looking for a 28ga or 410 gun for field use, I'd probably buy whichever of these fell into my lap on a good deal.

Ha-ha, I also notice how the subject of weight never came up during the anchor parade. Do you want to walk down the RR tracks or feel like your're carrying an eighth of a mile of it? There is a such a thing as the perfect weight in the perfect places. That's what the 870 28 is about. It's made to travel, like a sportscar is.

Stevens 16 ga model 77, my first shotgun that I should have kept, Browning Sweet 16, Valmet OU 16, Ithica 37 16, Remington 1100/870 16 ga. Looks like a gauge preference here, but 16 just goes with the idea of ideal upland gun.

Well if you're dismissing the Winchester or Browning Model 12 in 20 ga as being a piece of railroad track, that tells me you've apparently never handled one.

The Wingmaster in 28 or 410 is a good choice.

New Wingmaster 28's with screw chokes are available for about $750 shipped.

There is a Sportsman's Field 410 on this forum for $449 shipped.

I'd take a true 28ga M21 any day.

I still own the Rem 870 Wingmaster Lightweight I bought new in the late 70's when I lived in Iowa. One of the best handling guns I've owned.....shot many a pheasant, quail, and dove with it way back when. I haven't shot it in almost 30 years....still is in excellent plus condition.

Oh the memories......

Jim C

Franchi 48AL 28ga. Less weight than an 870 28 gauge due to the aluminum receiver.

Same thing w/ the new Benelli 28ga.

Both are 5ish-lb guns.

Yes, I've handled a g***damn M-12 20. How do you explain weight to people who have no idea that an upland gun must have just the right amount in just the right places? Google this; ARE all Remington engineers brain dead?

Going by current website info:

Franchi 48AL 28ga- 5.4 lb

Remington 870 28ga- 6 lb

Benelli Legacy 28ga- 4.9 lb.

Looks like the 870 is the clunker of that group.

For comparison:

Ithaca 37 28ga 6.1 lb

Browning BPS 28ga 7 lb

Browning Model 12 28ga 6lb 7oz

JMO-but, i agree the Rem.870 28ga. is a GREAT Gun. Put over 10,000 rounds thru one in Competition with out a failure. Was injuried in the WAR (divorce) and shot the 28ga in 12-20-28ga events. Super Gun but, nowadays i rely on my Rem. (ball bearing)Model 31. joe90t

You don't understand engineering worth a damn do you Mr Skeet Man? A gun can be too light and not have any presence, like those featherweight Benellis. The 870 28 is the perfect weight. That is part of the engineering to make the pefect upland gun. Oh I know, I know, rare is the trapshooter who can pump a small bore shotgun, too brain dead for that and must have a glorified single shot or 3" mags in a 12 gauge auto for a little tiny bird like a dove or a quail. Speaking of gun engineers, the newest Benelli 12's "may" be shimable to a high enough position but it took them many years to make that correction. Also the soft rubber comb on such models needs to start where the comb starts, not two inches or whatever to the rear of that point. Maybe they'll realize that in another 10 years.

A 20 gauge Beretta 686, etc. with 28 to 30 inch barrels makes a Remington 870 feel like a 2X4 (and I own and like 870's).

That's like saying Rosie O'Donnell is easier than Nicole Kidman to make out with in a Volkswagen. You try that 30" 20 in the thicketts and see what happens. You can't like 870's and call the 28 a 2X4. You're full of horse droppings. You don't own a 28. If you did you would know that it doesn't feel like a 16 or a 20 or a 12, or even the 410 which is heavier than the 28 but the 2nd greatest upland bird gun ever to come out of America.

Most of upland hunting is not "in the thickets". But if in the thickets, the 28-inch barrel on a Beretta makes the total shotgun length the same (or shorter depending on the 870 barrel length) as that of the pump shotgun. The Beretta 686 has better weight distribution for greater balance than the 28 gauge 870. And the Beretta 20 gauge weighs in at or near the weight of the 870. Your posts are attempts to sell your high priced 28 gauges. And yes I own a 28 gauge 870 (with three fixed choke barrels; I think they handle better than the vent-rib barrels). You know not of what you speak.

Also, there are many fine 28-gauge over and unders that have handling that put the 870 to shame.

I may not understand gun engineering, but I do understand when someone is trying to pimp and prop up a gun to move the one they are trying to sell.

Thats a seperate thing now isn't it? You guys enterrtain yourself by arguing against something somebody else said. I have heard some stupid crap here.

When someone makes a stupid/incorrect statement in order to facilitate the selling of gun(s) its fair game. You obviously can't answer with facts.

Stupid crap? What is stupid is you making very sujective claims about one particular shotgun and then bashing others for their particualr likes.

And yes if it matters I have shot a Wingmaster in 28 gauge and it is a fine gun but many other 28 gauge guns will exceed both the 870's quality and handling characteristics. If I thought otherwise I would have one.

Wasn't til earlier today that I realized this was the same rocket scientist that virulently argued that it was illegal to ship ammunition a few weeks ago.

Well, the weather is certainly nice here in North Alabama. Was 59-degrees this morning. And, this is June 6th!!!!

It seems to me trap shooters are the nicest guys in the world. How blessed we all are to be amongst such nice guys, all of whom are disciples of the "spirit of tolerance" and Brotherly Love. Nope, you'll never find any animosity around here.....

Mike

My 11 year old grandson loves my 28ga. 870 (and so do the shell manufacturers) but for "slick" as per joe90t my 20ga. 31 it's mighty hard to find anything that compares. Ross Puls

The original late-80s run of 16ga Citori lightnings were pretty sweet fast handling upland guns.

The new Ithacas look and feel fantastic too, and buying a shotgun made in Ohio is a good thing for the American worker and gun industry.

-Gary

Hooo boy, someone is really full of themself.

A 28ga the ultimate upland gun ha? Tell you what C.E., I don't know squat and you darn sure don't! Anyone thats ever hunted any amount darn well knows the 16 is the king. There are so many perfectle balanced configurations that there is no need to rely on one specific model for fortune telling... I'll take my old model 12 and you can have your 870. We'll have us a shucken contest but you are required to hit what your shucken for. It all counts. The cost for me to find out how good you are I will leave up to you. But be forewarned, what ever the 28 can do, the 16 can do 10 times better!

The Master has cut to he chase. A 16 on a 20 ga frame IS THE ULTIMATE FIELD GUN.

A Model Twelve in 16 ga with IC is going to be the ONE.

One ounce at 1200 and something has proven itself for several generations.

The gun makers tried to kill the 16 to save a few dollars.

The 16 and 28 are both orphans, but may be the best pair of any of them for the hunter.

MY "Ultimate Upland Gun" is the 20 Gauge Remington Sportsman 58 Skeet Gun left to me by my Grandfather...Not too HEAVY, well-balanced, points like my Index Finger and SLAYS Quail like it's goin' out of style! Just MHO, you unnerstan'....Mike S.

shill

noun

2. a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.

I don't want to appear an elitist but no repeater can be the best upland gun ever made. I personally feel that break action guns have first consideration for that title. In addition to their weight and handling characteristics, break action guns are much easier to carry. They can also be "made safe" simply by popping them open. No need to turn the gun on its side to see if the bolt is open, for example.

The question then becomes, "what break action gun is the best upland gun ever made". This will elicit many different responses with virtually everyone voting for his favorite.

A short story- I was hunting with a friednd who was shooting a Citori. I had my Perugini Visini 20 ga. double. I asked him to hold my gun for a moment while I did something with the dog. The instant he took the gun from my hands he said, "wow, this is really light!" He then asked me please find him something like that - and he hadn't even shot it!

You all have a psychosis about making a cannon shoot a hummimgbird. You should feel shame to pubicly admit you like to use a 45/70 projectile weight in a shotgun to kill a bird that would fit in your watch pocket. Another sign of your group psychosis is that you all agree with each other but not the person you started the argument with. Not a one of you has said another guy's dream gun was a boat anchor. You may need to consult Sunk or Froyd about it and try to find out what the hell is wrong with you.

I pay no attention to anyone who thinks a pump ANYTHING is the finest handling Upland gun EVER MADE. Chew on that awhile Burgess.

Man, you need help. That's something you should be telling your head-shrinker, not me. Unless you only have one arm, and then I could understand what you are saying.

C.E.Burgess- I see this is a battle of wits. Its unfortunate that you've come unarmed.

Have you ever been to a skeet shoot, Skeet Man? Why else would you call yourself that? They stand around and cheer all the losers don't they? That's what you're doing now, Skeet Man!

I've been to more skeet shoots than I care to remember, in fact I won the one I was at last wknd w/ a 397x400.

Please ask the doctor to double your meds the next time you see him...

I would like the guys who say Upland hunting doesn't take place in the thickets to explain why I had to replace my Carhart brush pants every couple of years because the facing was wore off! Southern Illinois quail hunting will leave you with a lot of briar stories. I have seen a dump truck load of Browning Auto 5's with the barrels cut to 20 inches, whose owners claimed they were the perfect upland gun, until they handled my Citori Upland Special.

Obviously the original poster has never handled/shot any shotgun but an 870 28 gauge to believe this way. Now everyone is wrong but him. Everyone is ganging up on him. Now he is hunting hummingbirds (not an upland bird). A pheasant (generally considered an upland bird) normally won't fit in a pocket (maybe a game bag). He can't present facts why the 870 is better than brands X, Y or Z.

Everyone enjoys and will enjoy the many fine upland guns listed in previous posts (and many not mentioned). These last few posts make me hope he is just using this thread to pump (no pun intended) his 870 28 gauges for sale. Maybe he just needs a good nap and some milk and cookies.

I explained it but some are too dense, --weight, speed of handling, more than 2 shots, What has all three? Thank-you. Pheasants are not too big for a 28, but a 20 is overkill for a quail.

And what Preserve do you hunt your Pheasants on?

I have two circa 1950/60 Ithaca Mod 37R in 16 ga that worked very well on Pa. pheasants (when we had some) :(

What a shillfest.