Yes. Assuming.... I recently had the pleasure of shooting a "protection" squad from 27 using Estate Factory loads - 1 oz. 2 3/4 dr. #8's. Everything broke well high quality hits, but not much smoke) and even took the event in a shootoff from Position #7 at about 30 yards. (using KX5 34" using the .030 choke)

1 oz, #8's, 19.5 GD, about 1200fps will smash targets from anywhere. That's about all I use anymore. Very little recoil.

I guess I am in the minority. But then I am not very good - stuck on the 24 for a year now.

Maybe a 1 oz load would help, but my little pea brain tells me less shot means fewer hits.

All the 27 yarders I know shoot 1 1/8 oz - not just those who average below 90 and refuse reductions; but the ones who shoot good scores in competition and play the options,

Don Verna

I tried a few boxes of 1oz. #8 @ 1230 fps. and the breaks seemed as good as my normal load (1 1/8 of 7 1/2) even from the 27. I'm going to pattern them this spring before I decide but from what I have seen so far this load has potential.

1oz of 8's is all I use for practice from the 27.

gjmen.. Read Neil's post again, carefully. He is absolutely right. Your margin for error decreases dramatically as you move back in yardage, and you will need all the help you can get from your load. I believe his suggestion to use 8's rather than 71/2's is based on the theory that you are putting more shot on the target to help make up for the lighter payload. Is this correct, Neil? I took the same route you are taking for a while, however, I hit the wall at the 25 yard line and just set up camp there. I soon found out that I just couldn't hit the targets as often, or as well, as I could when I was shooting 11/8oz. 71/2's from that yardage. I switched to shooting only 3dr. 71/2's, and made the 27 yard line within 5 shoots. I, personally, prefer 3dr. 71/2's for all my shooting beyond the 25 yard line, and use the same shell for the second shot on doubles..... Just my experience... Dan Thome (Trap2)

I shot some new Nitro 27's that were 1 Oz. of 8's from the 27 yardline and they smoked the targets I hit, didn't have any effect on the targets I missed ... I broke a 96 and was not unhappy with that, so yes they will work ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

@ NEIL WINSTON,

To quote you, "Show your work."

I thought I remembered (which is a notch below knowing that I thought I knew) from your previous extensive testing and data that:

A 1oz load will hold together better than a 1 1/8oz load. I also thought it was possible to push a 1oz load faster than a 1 1/8oz load with less pattern degradation?

"To know that you know what you know; and to know that you do not know, that which you do not know. That is true knowledge." Ancient Trap Shooting Wisdom

It's mostly a personal thing. I always felt better putting as much shrapnel in the air as possible.

BB

1oz loads for handicap from the 25 on back are great if your last name is Harrison or Campbell. LOL. Personally I like to put as much lead down range as possible. Ocassionally those additional pellets will get you an extra bird.

Shoot well.

1 1/8 oz. of 7 1/2s @ 1100 fps. Lots of lead in the air, low recoil at the other end. This load will have the same recoil as 1 oz. @ 1225.

1oz. 8's, 20.5 Gr. Green Dot, Downrange (Purple PC, if you can find them as they don't make them anymore) STS Hull, Win Primer. Got me to the 27, just could'nt stay there.

Thanks for the input everyone. I am going to play around with some different loads this winter and come to a conclusion by spring. gjmen

With all the quality information/data available, why would you want to handicap yourself with a light load?

If the recoil of a "Handicap Load" bothers you, then you may need to have your gun fitted properly with a quality recoil reduction system.

Curt

Given:

1 oz #7 1/2 shot = 350 pellets

1 oz #8 = 410 pellets

Then;

1 1/8 oz #7 1/2 shot = 393 pellets

1 oz #8 shot = 410 pellets

There are more pellets in 1 oz #8 than 1 1/8 oz #7 1/2 --- 17 more.

Kinetic striking power is reduced with 8's vs. 7-1/2's.

Curt

Can anyone PROVE that the kinetic energy loss between the two shot sizes makes any difference when it comes to breaking a clay target?

With a 24 gram load at 1330.. and 24 grams of shot with a Wilkinson .038 choke.. you can smoke em from the 27... Just not forgiving.. you'll need to be dead on... GREAT for practice.. In a match.. 1 1/8oz @1250fps

If 8's and 7 1/2's each have enough energy to break a target at the 27, why would anyone use 7 1/2?

Some barrels will pattern one size shot better than the other.

hunter44- It is clear that both sizes of shot retain more energy than can be transfered to the target. The kinetic energy does slightly affect the velocity loss of the two sizes. The larger shot would also be deflected by the wind less than the smaller shot.

Probably because of dogma, I use 7.5 shot for handicap (27 yards) and #8 shot for singles and doubles.

Pat Ireland

Hunter44, I've heard that theory many times over the years...that some barrels "prefer" 8's over 7½'s.

It might be so, but I wonder if anyone has ever really tested that?

RickN.... If, by testing, you mean has anyone patterned their guns shooting 71/2's and 8's, and comparing the results, then the answer is a resounding YES, I have. My DB-81 single barrel, worked over by Tom Wilkinson, will shoot 71/2's much better than it will 8's. The patterns, at handicap yardage, show a tighter, much more evenly distributed pattern with the 71/2's, and a totally horrible pattern with 8's. With nothing different in the loads except shot size, the 71/2's will put about 85-90% of the shot in a 30" circle at 40 yards. With 8's, it will put 70-75% in the same circle, at the same yardage. There are holes in the pattern with the 8's that 2 targets could easily escape through. Yes, there is a difference.. Just my experience..... Dan Thome (Trap2)

Yep that's what I meant. Actual testing not just "I hit seem to hit them harder with 8's."

When I compared 7 1/2's and 8's with one gun there was virtually no difference in the pattern percentages in any area of the resulting spreads. The 75% figures were the same, the gun shot them equally. The 8's were better patterns of course, more pellets does that, but the percentages were about the same. You could not say the gun shot one size better than the other.

But I used a scaling feature in Shotgun-insight and I realize this is a possible objection to the result.

So if the weather stays as warm and windless as it's been, I'll try it again. The result will be the same, there will be no difference. But, just so you know I I didn't "fix" it by using a gun which I know will work that way, I'll let the first responder tell me what to use:

It'll be a Perazzi or similar so do you want stock or modified by a "name" barrelworker? If stock, overbore or under 0.728? Real full or less so? I may not be able to provide a perfect match, but I'll get as close as I can.

Make your decision, and given good weather; we'll know in a week.

Neil

O.K. its time for Trap Shooters World wide to Listen and Listen closely! We only have approxmatley a 30 to 35 inch Pattern from a Handicap yardage? yes or no ?If yes How long is your actual shoot Pattern 10 feet long or 40 feet long/ Is so will the shoot trown through the air will all fly straight? If so what would be the chance that an over 5 inch circle can be thrown through that 4 inch hole in your Pattern ?Keep in mind that these seperate holes that targets get threw from time to time are Both traveling a high rate of speed ?NOW how unlucky can we be that EVERY target we MISS slips through that three inch hole in our guns Pattern ?O.K. now that we all that straightend out . ANY MORE questions ?Reason number one you Might shoot an ounce load more better !LESS recoil when you have LESS recoil a shooter does"nt WANT to move his HEAD up!And there for stays in the gun better with more even follow through !Try 17.5 grains of Red dot in a AA with 8 shot 1 ounce load I find these loads will crush targets from 40 yards or even farther. NOT meaning to offend Anyone at any time during writing this comment. I have just heard so many unproven ideas talked about I think we should really find the true problems with our shooting! In my case NOT putting the end of the Barell in the correct place at the correct time! This will cause a miss target EVERY time !

Neil SS- I agree with your conclusion that 1 oz loads may result in better scores for some shooters because the recoil reduction allows them to stay in the gun better.

But the numbers you posted to support this conclusion. If you look at 30-35 inch patterns shot at 40 yards, it becomes clear that the effective "kill zone" is around 20 inches. With a calculator, it becomes simple to demonstrate that shot string plays no role. At 40 yards, the shot in a handicap load will be around 1000 ft/sec and the target slows down to about 35 MPH. If you push the right buttons on a calculator, it becomes clear that the shot pattern can be accurately considered as two dimensional even if it is 10 feet long.

You also should not consider the target as a circle. We do not shoot at circular targets. Our targets have a 20-30 degree elliptical shape, not a circular shape.

Pat Ireland

Neil, I'll make a request and that being an American made with a tight bore. No mods please. I would like to view some actual patterns as well not just graphs, please.

Neal SS, if you want to live in an illusionary world and believe what you wrote above, well I can't bring myself to destroy what your so fond of...

RickN, yes.

OK, Martin. Heck, in special consideration to you, I'll use Green Dot though I'd planned Red.

Neil

Pat Ireland: Where did you get your "facts" about shot traveling at 1000 fps at 40 yards?! Tom Rhoads

Tom- The drop in velocity I used is from Shotgun Ballistics. The target speed is from actual measurements with my radar gun.

Pat Ireland

Pat: I was shocked by your "1000" fps at 40 yards. I have read and seen many times more like 680-700 at 40 yards!? Could you please confirm? Thanks, Tom Rhoads

From a 1200 fps shell, Lowry's numbers at a distance of 40 yards are 623 fps for a 7 1/2, 604 fps for an 8.

I've put together the gun Martin asked for. It's American, a 34-inch 0.727 bore/ 0.040 choke 870 and the one-ounce loads are prepared with Green Dot. If the weather cooperates, we'll learn something.

Neil

That is more like the number I have seen many times! I just wondered where Pat go his info of 1000 fps! Thanks Neil. Tom Rhoads

Pat got the 1000 ft/sec figure from his memory of Lowry's data. It clearly shows how accurate his memory is at times.

Pat Ireland

I'm totally confused here, if I need more shot to break more targets??? Why is it that when international shooters had to reduce shot charge to one oz. their scores went UP??? So to make it harder again they had to reduce their shot charge once again to 7/8 oz. Again their scores went up slightly once again!!! So why is it that we need to shoot more shot for again ??? I must be confused !!!!!!!! Breake-em all. Jeff